How Google Identify Bought links

[ctabuk]

Could this be the reason??

Ramblings About SEO » Blog Archive » 15 Methods for Paid Link Detection

[stymiee]

That looks like a decent list of logical factors in Google finding sold links.

[ctabuk]

My thoughts also. I recall Matt Cutts said that he could spot 'paid for' from a laptop analysis -but he did not explain further.

[ccnj]

Hi. I just posted on the other site also, but wanted to get your opinions here - if someone says they can sell you 500 links for $500 (an SEO expert is telling you this, and you have every reason to believe it should work, based on their current customers...) - would you do this, based on the article that ctabuk mentioned?

Thanks,
JG
Credit Cards, NJ

[stymiee]

I wouldn't do it for search engine reasons as the odds are those links will have little to no value since they will most likely be not only poor websites, but websites that are offtopic.

[ccnj]

Thanks. The only thing I would think of is that if they were specifically geared to the topic at hand - say for example selling widgets, and that's what you sell... - would you go with those sites that are being paid for, even if Google might find out they were paid for?

Thanks,
JG
Credit Cards, NJ - Your Smart Choice for Merchant Services

[Webnauts]

Lets keep the thread content fresh:
Google Webmaster Tools Adds Paid Link Reporting Form & More

Google rules...

[Cloggie192]

If i am paying for a one off fee 10.00 USD or 60 USD to be registered in search engines/ directories listing that has a PR ranking of 6 would i be penalised ? The link is in the relevant section of the directory acording to the products that we sell

[simonm]

In answer to the question about 500 links for $500. Just looking at my screen while doing the quick reply, I can see webnauts' very useful post and note that he has 4,063 posts. Taking into account the fact that when we change our signatures, it refereshes past occurences of the signature, webnauts is sitting on $4,063 worth of potential back links, more if he put more links on his signature. I'm only worth $267!

My point being, just stating X number of links for $Y is almost meaningless. Ultimately the best link building strategy is done link at a time! This is good as it allows the small, skilled and cautious operator to compete effectively with the big guy with the limitless budget who doesn't really understand SEO.

[ctabuk]

Those types of IBL's from forum posts are only of use if you are posting on your own topic. If you do a "ctabuk" you will see that I have a variety of username IBL's but they have very little applications for mortgage related search terms.
The only time that they show up as 'useful' IBL's are from Money related forum posts and blogs.

[ctabuk]

Originally Posted by Cloggie192

If i am paying for a one off fee 10.00 USD or 60 USD to be registered in search engines/ directories listing that has a PR ranking of 6 would i be penalised ? The link is in the relevant section of the directory acording to the products that we sell

Firstly the toolbar Pagerank is meaningless. So forget that. But as far as I am concerned this 'pay for link' thing does not include Directories - Google uses DMOZ and that is a Directory. If Google wishes to penalise a site then it should not be for the guy who innocently buys a link in the right category and is 'relevant' that would screw Google, but it may penalise a guy who sells links from a run of the mill website.

If I placed a 'Buy your links here' page on my website - I would get penalised. And that is what this debate is all about.

[ccnj]

Originally Posted by ctabuk

Those types of IBL's from forum posts are only of use if you are posting on your own topic. If you do a "ctabuk" you will see that I have a variety of username IBL's but they have very little applications for mortgage related search terms.
The only time that they show up as 'useful' IBL's are from Money related forum posts and blogs.

Just so that I can understand something here - I always thought that as long as there was a link with the right anchor text, that would be another instance of a link - even if the link happened to be somewhere that was not necessarily connected with the page the link was going to. Are you saying that is not the case?

Thanks,
JG

[doj464]

Originally Posted by ccnj

Just so that I can understand something here - I always thought that as long as there was a link with the right anchor text, that would be another instance of a link - even if the link happened to be somewhere that was not necessarily connected with the page the link was going to. Are you saying that is not the case?

Thanks,
JG

JG,

Anchor text is one part of Google's algorithm. Another factor is the relevancy of the rest of the content on the page. If you would put <http://mortgagequotes.com> mortgage quotes</a> on this thread, the value is very low as explained by CTabuk

[Webnauts]

My opinion about IBLs is that Google will not penalize us if we seek links free or paid, if the intention is to promote our sites and to generate traffic. The only thing I can imagine is, that such links will we be downgraded when it comes to PageRank.

But who cares about the PageRank?

[stymiee]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

My opinion about IBLs is that Google will not penalize us if we seek links free or paid, if the intention is to promote our sites and to generate traffic. The only thing I can imagine is, that such links will we be downgraded when it comes to PageRank.

But who cares about the PageRank?

What they'll do is penalize the site selling links. They'll most likely remove that page's/site's ability to pass on PR. This will make their link sales worthless and hurt their rankings as they lose PR which is still important to Google. They have been doing this for a while now with sites like phpbb.com.

[SemAdvance]

Originally Posted by simonm

In answer to the question about 500 links for $500. Just looking at my screen while doing the quick reply, I can see webnauts' very useful post and note that he has 4,063 posts. Taking into account the fact that when we change our signatures, it refereshes past occurences of the signature, webnauts is sitting on $4,063 worth of potential back links, more if he put more links on his signature. I'm only worth $267!

My point being, just stating X number of links for $Y is almost meaningless. Ultimately the best link building strategy is done link at a time! This is good as it allows the small, skilled and cautious operator to compete effectively with the big guy with the limitless budget who doesn't really understand SEO.

No not at all there is not $4,000.00 worth of link value.

Due to the fact all of the signature links all come from the same C class server they are devalued to one link worth of PR. Another issue is when the link changes then its value is lost to the search engine when they return and no longer find the link as it was previously.

The best linking strategy is no linking strategy at all, as most artificial link building is easily detected.

The best strategy is natural links one way in nature, and those are developed because someone actually knows what they are talking about......or provides some good link bait.

[simonm]

That was my point:

Second para: My point being, just stating X number of links for $Y is almost meaningless.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by stymiee

This will make their link sales worthless and hurt their rankings as they lose PR which is still important to Google.

John my statement above about who cares about PageRank was ironic. I know that PageRank is still important to Google. I thought you already knew that the PageRank issue became a taboo topic here at WPW. LOL

[Webnauts]

I was just reading:

Purchase Links: This practice is still incredibly popular, largely because there are many people who get away with doing it, and it helps them with their rankings. The problem is that the it is in the strategic interest of the search engines to defeat this practice, and they are working hard to do so. Google uses three techniques to detect purchased links:

• Algorithms look for obvious patterns, such as the presence of words such as "Advertisers" or "Sponsors" near the link. Another thing they can look for is a grouping of unrelated links that don't fit the topic matter of the page where the links are found.
• Google has thousands of editors in Asia whose sole purpose is to review search results for quality purposes. Part of what they are trained to do is detect purchased links and flag them.
• Google also accepts reports of purchased links and will send these for review by their team in Asia.

So what does Google do when a purchased link is detected? They flag it and make it useless from a site ranking perspective. In addition, if they detect flagrant link buying for ranking practicespurposes, they can, and do, ban sites. Use the time more wisely. Take the same time you might have invested in finding links to buy, and find a link you deserve instead. It's much safer, and it will build your business for the long term.

Source: Top 10 Bad SEO Ideas

[ctabuk]

SemAdvance said 'The best linking strategy is no linking strategy at all, as most artificial link building is easily detected.

The best strategy is natural links one way in nature, and those are developed because someone actually knows what they are talking about......or provides some good link bait.'


I agree with some of this - but some of it is incorrect.

Firstly - you need relevance both 'In and Out' of a site. Google looks to where you link out to and checks the 'relativity value'.

Letting sites simply find you and link to you - is basically 'Russian Roulette' you may find that you have poker sites pointing at you -simply ignore the request to link back.

You should do a links campaign - check your competitors sites that rank higher than you on various keywords - track their links via SiteReportCard: Web Site Optimization and Promotion Tools that way you can see if any of the links are broken. If you want to be 'over fussy' then use xenu.

Then simply register your site where they have, if it means paying, fine do it. But I would add caution if it means using Miva.
The most important aspect of doing that is to place the landing page with its longtail URL to the correct category in the Directory. You are in effect creating 'relevance'.
Then in the site description don't bother with stuff like -We are the best blah blah'
Simply list the keywords with commas that relate to the intended landing page.

[ccnj]

Originally Posted by ctabuk

Letting sites simply find you and link to you - is basically 'Russian Roulette' you may find that you have poker sites pointing at you -simply ignore the request to link back.

So here's a different way of looking at this again... If there are pages that are linking to you, without you even knowing they are linking (read linkfarms), are you still penalized? I know in my web logs, I see some sites that link to me, and countries that have NOTHING to do with what I can even begin to offer, coming to my site. Then when I search, especially in Yahoo - not so much Google - I get tons of sites I didn't even know were linking to me. That may also be one way I get "unique" search terms, i.e. Viagra to come to my site - any clues?

Thanks,
JG

[Webnauts]

Some more interesting information: Ramblings About SEO » Blog Archive » Matt Cutts and Tim Mayer - tidbits from SMX

[incrediblehelp]

Items to consider when buying links:

1. Will this link delivery real traffic to me?
2. Is that traffic relevant to my website?
3. Is this link using tracking?
4. Don't buy links to effect SE positions.

Like said above the Google "probably" wont penalize you for buying links, but they sure a sh*t trying to make sure paid links don't effect your organic SERPs.

ccnj people linking to you with bad links cant hurt you long term. Sure maybe when your website first launches, but your not going to see many rankings there anyways until your real links start to build.

[ctabuk]

As always, thanks incrediblehelp and webnauts.

If you have used a manual Directory submission service before and have ensured that they submitted in the correct category and to the correct page - I really cannot see any reason why you should not use it again for another page. Duplication of Directory links I would have thought was OK. Any takers?

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by ctabuk

As always, thanks incrediblehelp and webnauts.

If you have used a manual Directory submission service before and have ensured that they submitted in the correct category and to the correct page - I really cannot see any reason why you should not use it again for another page. Duplication of Directory links I would have thought was OK. Any takers?

I do not see any problems with submitting to diverse categories diverse links of your web site.

For example:

Our site also has tools and tutorials. So, if the directory has categories like SEO companies, SEO articles and SEO Tools, I could submit the following links:

SEO Workers - Search Engine Optimization Consulting Company
SEO Workers - Search Engine Optimization Articles & Tutorials
SEO Workers - Search Engine Optimization Tools

Besides, if that is an issue, I found a site that has 6 entries in DMOZ. Should they be punished too?

The issue is that Google keeps an eye on site wide links, if they are kind of paid links.

An associate of mine Jens Meiert – Blog (web development, accessibility, usability) and biography has in his footer site wide a link to my site.
Should he be punished?

As Google and other major search engines are semantic engines, I suppose using XFN 1.1 profile rel attributes should help them to recognize the associations.

[Heat]

hi all,

I have a problem with this topic, because I'm thinking seriously to buy some links in several directories. My NO.1 competitor is in top 5 positions for several "very" competitive keywords and ALL the links he has are paid from different directories. He is on top from one year I think and Google is not bothered with his strategy.
It's really frustrating to see his listings in these directories and the concept of "don't buy links" is ...
I should mentioned that when he launched the site 2-3 years ago, Google spotted some of his paid links and he was away from top 100 for this keywords I think more then 1 year, but after that, slowly buying links with good PR, he climbed on the first page (top 5) for several competitive keywords.
What should I do? Should I buy links in the places we is, or should I wait for Google to do something.
If I will buy links and G decides to ban these sites or make some penalties on the sites who bought their places, then I'm in very big problem and the LINK exchange campaigns done in these years ~ 0.

[scanmonkey]

Originally Posted by ctabuk

Could this be the reason??

Ramblings About SEO » Blog Archive » 15 Methods for Paid Link Detection

It usually is pretty easy to detect paid links manually. Just look at the most hated bloggers site
http://iamfacingforeclosure.com/245/roadblocks-for-worlds-most-hated-blogger#more-245

I think that google's 1st problem is that they can't do a good job of detecting paid links and the problem may not be algorithmically solvable. Googles 2nd problem is that paid links are in direct competition with their 'meal ticket' adwords.

Now if Matt Cutts can detect them with his laptop, all google's cheap labor at eval.google.com will have no problem detecting them with paid link reports.

Now here's my question. What is google going to do about it?

I did get a PM from WPW member Adam Lasnik on another thread but he didn't answer my question. Also I will add that I don't care about paid links either way. I just started experimenting with paid links and have one $25 per month link. Its been up a couple of months and we did get one $5000 lead, so I'll keep it.

[Webnauts]

"Purchase Links: This practice is still incredibly popular, largely because there are many people who get away with doing it, and it helps them with their rankings. The problem is that the it is in the strategic interest of the search engines to defeat this practice, and they are working hard to do so. Google uses three techniques to detect purchased links:

* Algorithms look for obvious patterns, such as the presence of words such as "Advertisers" or "Sponsors" near the link. Another thing they can look for is a grouping of unrelated links that don't fit the topic matter of the page where the links are found.
* Google has thousands of editors in Asia whose sole purpose is to review search results for quality purposes. Part of what they are trained to do is detect purchased links and flag them.
* Google also accepts reports of purchased links and will send these for review by their team in Asia.

So what does Google do when a purchased link is detected? They flag it and make it useless from a site ranking perspective. In addition, if they detect flagrant link buying for ranking practicespurposes, they can, and do, ban sites. Use the time more wisely. Take the same time you might have invested in finding links to buy, and find a link you deserve instead. It's much safer, and it will build your business for the long term."

Source: Top 10 Bad SEO Ideas

[stymiee]

Originally Posted by Heat

hi all,

I have a problem with this topic, because I'm thinking seriously to buy some links in several directories. My NO.1 competitor is in top 5 positions for several "very" competitive keywords and ALL the links he has are paid from different directories. He is on top from one year I think and Google is not bothered with his strategy.
It's really frustrating to see his listings in these directories and the concept of "don't buy links" is ...
I should mentioned that when he launched the site 2-3 years ago, Google spotted some of his paid links and he was away from top 100 for this keywords I think more then 1 year, but after that, slowly buying links with good PR, he climbed on the first page (top 5) for several competitive keywords.
What should I do? Should I buy links in the places we is, or should I wait for Google to do something.
If I will buy links and G decides to ban these sites or make some penalties on the sites who bought their places, then I'm in very big problem and the LINK exchange campaigns done in these years ~ 0.

Paid links from directories are fine.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by stymiee

Paid links from directories are fine.

Stymiee are you sure about that? Can you back that up some how?
That would be very cool.

Thanks.

[Heat]

any other comments / ideas on my first post?
i think this is really important. everybody from this forum knows or should know what's the competition doing. Periodically I check my competitors backlinks and I see new paid links and their positions in G are very strong ...
Should we do the same? What will happen when, one day ... G will penalize this and will be in the same situation?
kr, Heat

[incrediblehelp]

Originally Posted by Heat

Should we do the same? What will happen when, one day ..

Only you can decide this. I dont mind if my clients buy paid links. Nothing wrong with it, just dont do it for SE reasons as I said before.

Originally Posted by Heat

What will happen when, one day ... G will penalize this and will be in the same situation?

No can say for sure, but surely the worst would that these paid links would not count as far as passing link juice in Google.

[stymiee]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

Stymiee are you sure about that? Can you back that up some how?
That would be very cool.

Thanks.

One of the Google people blogged about it. Plus it fits in with what they have said all along. Links sold in directories are not for PR. They are for better placement.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by stymiee

One of the Google people blogged about it. Plus it fits in with what they have said all along. Links sold in directories are not for PR. They are for better placement.

Thanks Stymiee!

[emptymirror]

Check out this link - it's an interview with Google's Adam Lasnik, where he talks about this topic at length.

Interview of Google's Adam Lasnik on March 26, 2007

cheers ~
Denise

[scanmonkey]

Originally Posted by emptymirror

Check out this link - it's an interview with Google's Adam Lasnik, where he talks about this topic at length.

Interview of Google's Adam Lasnik on March 26, 2007

cheers ~
Denise

In the interview Adam Lasnik has said "our goal is not to catch one hundred percent of paid links."

All my competitors are doing quite well with the paid links and I believe that google hasn't algorithmically solved detecting 'paid links' and there's a limit to what they can do manually.

[phx-keith]

Originally Posted by ccnj

Hi. I just posted on the other site also, but wanted to get your opinions here - if someone says they can sell you 500 links for $500

I believe Google tracks link acquisition. You have no links one day and 500 the next. That would send up a red flag.

Do it yourself. Several quality inbound links over 6 months will more than likely get your site ranked for a number of quality search phrases. Works for me. I taught a friend and he has spend an hour a day for several months now getting inbound links and he is ranking for 10+ keyword phrases in a very competitive industry.

[stymiee]

Originally Posted by scanmonkey

All my competitors are doing quite well with the paid links and I believe that google hasn't algorithmically solved detecting 'paid links' and there's a limit to what they can do manually.

They've really only just begun. Over time you can expect to see improvements. Report your competitors and hopefully you'll benefit sooner rather then later.