AdSense Sites, ClickFraud etc... etc...

[mike]

Recently, Janeth posted a lively thread about her experience with the AdSense program.

For the most part it went about as those threads do typically. You have a polarization of the posters and it turns into a pro-google vs. anti-google kind of thing (with a few personal insults peppered in for good measure).

It is with that understanding that I would submit for your consideration the following:

I am not anti-Google. I am not pro-Google. I have met and liked more people from Google than I have any other search engine. I use their products extensively and indeed, in many cases, exclusively. I do not run, own, operate or manage any sites participating in the AdSense program.

That established, let me go over a few points of fact. There are many sites created solely for the purpose of resulting in search queries for AdSense clicks.

This is pretty well indisputable. Do a search for just about anything and somewhere within the resultset you are going to run into a site that has obviously been created for no reason other than resulting for that query so it can serve you an AdSense ad. If anybody cares to dispute this as fact, I suppose I can dig up a link or 50 for you with relative ease, but it's typically the case that both opponents and proponents of Google can agree upon this as 'fact'. In short, there do exist, in significant numbers, sites whose sole function is to be an AdSense result.

The degree to which these sites serve any other purpose, function or benefit is sometimes a matter of debate and indeed, some of them are more 'useful' than others. At the end of the day though, we (being the savvy Internet types we are) can pick these sites out with our eyes closed.

Now, if indeed it is the case that these sites exist, the question then becomes two fold. First, could and should Google be doing a better job of identifying these sites? Second, if Google can and should identify these types of site more effectively and declines to do so, is that evil, or just smart business?

It seems on one hand, that the existence of these sites -at some point, assuming people keep making more and more and more of them, would genuinely start to degrade Google's resultset to the point that they are no longer 'the best'. If everything you search for results in a bunch of these junky AdSense sites, then you are going to start looking for a new search engine. Google no doubt realizes this, so it's entirely logical to assume, understanding the risk, they would take steps to cap or somehow limit the number of these sites in their results.

Well, that sounds good and fine and seems reasonable enough. But here's the rub. If Google has the capacity to control how many and what quality of AdSense enabled sites result in their SERPs, and they only do it on the basis that not doing so would jeopardize their resultset and therefore their userbase, then two things have happened.

First, they have not stuck to their strictly algo-based relevance definition in search results that they made their name on. If, after all, a critical mass of these junk sites accumulate in their SERPs, the algo would have to be altered and/or the SERPs would have to be otherwise manipulated.

Second, the extent to which they allow these junky AdSense sites to accumulate up to a point where they would be compelled to act - but have not yet acted would at best be tantamount to a case of compromised principles and at worst, flat out hypocricy.

Your thoughts?

[janeth]

Google used AdWords Quality Score to take care of a lot of these websites. People paying .07 cents a click saw their prices rise to $1.00 and $2.00 per click.

Google started looking at how much content was on a page, rather the page links out to other related sites, has a contact us page and a privacy policy.

Although once these things are fixed you can be back in the game.

It seems all Google would have to do to fix the problem is make pages with no text on them not rank.

I don’t like sites that make me have to continue clicking to find the information I’m looking for.

Finding a directory or any site with a lot of ads and no text will eventually hurt Google.

[dann]

Originally Posted by janeth

I don’t like sites that make me have to continue clicking to find the information I’m looking for.

I don't think the advertisers like it very much either. I think this is what will prompt Google to have more stringent controls on publishers. That is where the problem lies.
Google is not the only search engine returning these MFA sites in the serps. There is a simple way to shut these sites down and that is if advertisers would stop using content match this internet noise pollution would stop.
Just my opinion of course.
Dan

[mike]

Well, yeah, but if you're Google, isn't that noise you refer to something like 'cha-ching'?

In other words it really isn't in their own (Google's) interest for these kinds of sites to diminish -at this point. But it does seem, if you follow a progession line, that at some point down the road they'll have to check them somehow or other or they will run the risk of burning up some userbase.

Or not... I dunno. I'm just asking. Seems logical to me.

(Oh and for the record, I can't imagine why anyone would use content match unless they were just tired of having money. But that's another subject for another thread.)

[crankydave]

Originally Posted by mike

Well, yeah, but if you're Google, isn't that noise you refer to something like 'cha-ching'?

In other words it really isn't in their own (Google's) interest for these kinds of sites to diminish -at this point. But it does seem, if you follow a progession line, that at some point down the road they'll have to check them somehow or other or they will run the risk of burning up some userbase.

Or not... I dunno. I'm just asking. Seems logical to me.

(Oh and for the record, I can't imagine why anyone would use content match unless they were just tired of having money. But that's another subject for another thread.)

Quite right.

Let's say for example they have reached critical mass. They have the quantity of sites they're comfortable with, now we work on quality. As each new one is approved, the ones at the "bottom" as far as what they "provide" in the means of quality (revenue?) are concerned are found in "violation" and removed.

Dave

( yes, the content network is little more than filling the "bowl" and pulling the chain)

[kgun]

Originally Posted by mike

It seems on one hand, that the existence of these sites -at some point, assuming people keep making more and more and more of them, would genuinely start to degrade Google's resultset to the point that they are no longer 'the best'. If everything you search for results in a bunch of these junky AdSense sites, then you are going to start looking for a new search engine.

May be the profitability of the sites will reduce the number. A lot of people rushed to Klondike to find gold. Only a few found. Most of them failed.

The original intent of AdSense was to provide Ad related to content. Which control is there on the content of the sites that supply AdSense or other Ad? Some of them give automated approval. Google does it indirectly, since the first site has to be approved. Since then code can be copy and pasted into n new sites. There is the great potential for misuse as Janeth pointed at in her thread.

As a sidenote, I found this site today: "Adsense Website" in PHP Scripts / Ad Management Programs"

"WebAdsense Search Engine its a very profitable search engine script with integrated Google AdSense or Yahoo Publisher Network, Amazon, Ebay and Clickbank. AdSense ads are displayed on the first three positions."
Source: Scripts.com.

[effisk]

Originally Posted by mike

First, they have not stuck to their strictly algo-based relevance definition in search results that they made their name on. If, after all, a critical mass of these junk sites accumulate in their SERPs, the algo would have to be altered and/or the SERPs would have to be otherwise manipulated.

You are assuming their algo has not been altered already (or the serps already manipulated). What makes you think so?

As a sidenote, kgun, you always manage to sneak in a few links with approrpiate anchor text in your messages. Are they your clients?

[jrb@w3f.com]

Originally Posted by mike

Well, yeah, but if you're Google, isn't that noise you refer to something like 'cha-ching'?

Yup.

There is a balance between cutting off their 'cha-ching' and making search users happier.

Kinda like raising prices until your bottom-line stops going up. It isn't the gross income, as many calculate.

My big problem isn't with the link farms as much as it is that the AdSense does not match the content very well on many sites, as an exit toward your search resolution is not there, and you have to go back to google and try another keyword set, or try another listing.

I also think they ban, or limit many good content sites that don't ruin their sites just to fit some of the silly algo's.

Upping the base cost of AdSense is an attempt to maximise Googles profits. If people want to bid a penny, then let them never show up. Or, they can show up cheap for a category that no one else is in. Minimums cut out the good content sites in some categories, because they provide only good info, and don't sell something. They can't afford it. Sad.

But you can't be all thing to all people. <sigh>

Maybe someday they will work harder on what Google is all about (besides the money issues).

[jrb@w3f.com]

Originally Posted by kgun

As a sidenote, I found this site today: "Adsense Website" in PHP Scripts / Ad Management Programs"

What a joke.

Their index bar comes up with no content on 98% of the headings. They use a polish cart/bank too.

I would be suspect of your insinuated recomendation here.

[davidmg]

Everytime I find one of the adsense spam sites that my ads might appear on I block them. Hopefully if enough adwords users start blocking the same sites from wanting their ads to appear there it might throw up a red flag to google or it might just start costing the spamemrs more to adveritze and maintain their sites and cause them to shut themselves down.

I also would like to state that just recently I confronted adwords wanting to know why my adwords account showed 128 clicks on one ad leading to a certain page and why adsense that tracks the hits (times) they show an ad on that page only showed 86 hits for the same day. I asked if I was being fraudlantly charged on the front end or not getting paid everything on the back end and the only explaination was they they each report clicks differently and they weren't sure ohw the other one worked. When isn't a click a click and showing an ad showing an ad if it's all on the same page?

[philwill4u]

It's a natural progression for Google to now seek to retain its best customers by removing or reducing the placement of their ads on low quality sites. Sites that have just Adwords and nothing much else fit the bill and should be banished.

If Google didn't do this then their brand is perceived as matching the lowest common denominator and will gradually diminish their appeal.

Makes sense to me. Some other business will pick up the LCDs if anyone wants to use them to promote their own brand. There is always a market.

[jrb@w3f.com]

Originally Posted by davidmg

Everytime I find one of the adsense spam sites that my ads might appear on I block them. Hopefully if enough adwords users start blocking the same sites from wanting their ads to appear there it might throw up a red flag to google or it might just start costing the spamemrs more to adveritze and maintain their sites and cause them to shut themselves down.

I also would like to state that just recently I confronted adwords wanting to know why my adwords account showed 128 clicks on one ad leading to a certain page and why adsense that tracks the hits (times) they show an ad on that page only showed 86 hits for the same day. I asked if I was being fraudlantly charged on the front end or not getting paid everything on the back end and the only explaination was they they each report clicks differently and they weren't sure ohw the other one worked. When isn't a click a click and showing an ad showing an ad if it's all on the same page?

Excellent points...

I might refine your blocking a bit further, by reviewing that "AdSenseSpam" sites relationship to your sold products. If they are making you money, then why block them? If not, then, by all means, a good move. I think we should all do that. The end result is that our ad costs will go down without hurting our sales.

I think the spam sites get far more than the merchants get from their ad dollars.

Good post.

[dann]

davidmg, two possibilities I can think of. Bot clicks and accidental clicks where "back" was clicked before your page could load.
Unfortunately probably bot clicks imo.
Dan

[carju1]

What I can never understand in this whole process is why anyone bothers to leave google when looking for products and therefore how the adsense farms survive.

If I search on Google for say Dishwashers, I get 3 Adword ads then the generical search results and the rest of the paid adverts on the right. If I click on a 'real' algo search result (for dishwashers the 4th one is appliance.com) and its designed a an adsense farm then all it gives me is the same result as the paid ad word advertisers I just saw on Google less those who opt out of content network.

So why does anyone click on these adsense farms as they are just giving cut down version of what you just saw on Google. Now a-days when I'm looking to buy or compare products I just click on the adword advertisers shown on the google search pages.

The other thing that is starting to annoy me is those algo search results that aren't pointing to adsense farms all point to either Yahoo's Kelkoo or ebay/paypal's shopping.com site or even one of there affiliates. As I said its easier just to click adwords on the google search.

Julian

[davidmg]

jrb@w3f.com wrote:

I might refine your blocking a bit further, by reviewing that "AdSenseSpam" sites relationship to your sold products. If they are making you money, then why block them? If not, then, by all means, a good move. I think we should all do that. The end result is that our ad costs will go down without hurting our sales.

We track where every sale came from and back link to that page to see what key words were used and what the results were from those pages. I have found no sales from many of these sites and multiple clicks within a short period of time from them. That is why I have choosen to block my ads from thier sites.

Also every time I see an adwords ad that says directory I like to click on it. Yes I admit that I cause fraudlent clicks! I just know it costs them money and my google stock to go up!

[jrb@w3f.com]

Originally Posted by davidmg

jrb@w3f.com wrote:

I might refine your blocking a bit further, by reviewing that "AdSenseSpam" sites relationship to your sold products. If they are making you money, then why block them? If not, then, by all means, a good move. I think we should all do that. The end result is that our ad costs will go down without hurting our sales.

We track where every sale came from and back link to that page to see what key words were used and what the results were from those pages. I have found no sales from many of these sites and multiple clicks within a short period of time from them. That is why I have choosen to block my ads from thier sites.

Also every time I see an adwords ad that says directory I like to click on it. Yes I admit that I cause fraudlent clicks! I just know it costs them money and my google stock to go up!

Sounds like you have a good handle on it. WTG.
And thanks for the insight.

[davidmg]

jrb@w3f.com
Is your cool guy -cool find site adsense spam? Do you pay for keywords?

[NameCritic]

Originally Posted by davidmg

jrb@w3f.com
Is your cool guy -cool find site adsense spam? Do you pay for keywords?

Hmmm. Just looks like an article directory to me. Would anyone say ezinearticles.com is adsense spam? They have submitted articles and have adsense on the page.

At least its content.

I hate the junk and spammy sites as much as anyone, but have stopped buying adwords for the content network altogether. Can't support it until google either "chooses" to or "finds" a way to clean up their mess.

I'm sure they don't miss my little adwords budget, but I suspect I'm not alone.

[123Racing]

Even though I have some sites displaying AdSense, when I'm actually surfing, I never even see any AdSense ads embedded on the pages I visit, as I employ an aggressvie ad blocker that just eliminates EVERY bit of AdSense displayed on the page, along with some other annoying ads.

Makes a very nice EXPLODING sound when each ad is destroyed...only problem is that I seem to surf an awful lot of pages with lots of WHITESPACE on them! lol

I have no doubt than many surfers are employing these types of tools, and if enough install these type of blockers so that they only locate real products, what might be the result?

The result might be that publishers would go back to promoting affiliate banners and links, and they could still flood the search engines with article/review sites much like they're doing already, but with banners and text links instead of AdSense.

Let's not overlook that millions of 'article' style pages are being churned out with actual 'content', with no other intention than to serve AdSense. Thankfully my BLOCKER takes care of the majority of ads so I can just READ, otherwise I'd be hopping here and there from clicking on AdSense links (mainly because the descriptions often tend to entice you off the page your viewing).

My point is that if people are sick of seeing AdSense everywhere, and on sites considered valueless, surf with a good ad blocker program.

David Bowden

[davidmg]

123Racing

My point is that if people are sick of seeing AdSense everywhere, and on sites considered valueless, surf with a good ad blocker program.

Unfortunately the average surfer isn't tired of it. That's why the spam sites do so well. Pop ups were anoying but the adsense ads look just like other ads. Most people don't read, they only click next. Even the best written adsense ads don't get read they just get clicked. To many times the first 10 results are for shopping. com ebay or a blog on the subject which makes the surfer click on the ads to the right and back till they find what they are looking for. The average surfer doesn't realized that they are paid ads, they are sponsors!
By the way aren't the white pages boring?

[123Racing]

Originally Posted by davidmg

123Racing

By the way aren't the white pages boring?

You're right David in many respects, and yes they can get BORING, but good searching habits should result in better quality sites to view...

If the white spaces become too much I occassionally go watch the horse racing on TV or put on a DVD ;)

[Andilinks]

Unfortunately the average surfer isn't tired of it. That's why the spam sites do so well. Pop ups were anoying but the adsense ads look just like other ads. Most people don't read, they only click next.

Google continues to gain search market share and continually makes more money than its rivals on a similar number of searches. They are doing a much better job of clearing spam sites than before and make much more money on their contextual ads than anyone else.

The only complaints I can find appear on forums like this one. If Google's share of the search market starts to slip they will take remedial action, until then I think their stockholders should be happy.

They don't listen to me but if they did I'd say, "you're doing really great, please continue to improve..."

[philwill4u]

I've not come across anyone that says Adwords helps make them money other than the marketing people involved. For shops when you're advertising at $1+ for a click and a good percentage of those are from browsers (not purchasers) and fraud clicks then is it really that good?

What's really needed is a proper pay on sale rather than pay on click. Pay on Sale means that the marketers must do a damn good job and they absorb any fraud clicking.

When is someone going to do a pay on sale AdSense alternative. Surely the market is gaging for it with the ever increasing cost of Adwords.

[geoffreygag]

It's just a matter of time, Google needs to clean up these spam sites. If they pay more attention to advertisers that block spam sites.....

If you wait for google, your budget will go. As an advertiser, you should view your logs and do some back tracking... you'll find the sapm sites to block.

PS We are about 120 days away from Christmas timetable, get ready for new Google "Shake Out"

[NameCritic]

speaking of examples. Here is a real useful website.

w w w. phenom5(DOT)info/smiley-central-aol-80/

Anyone hyave a better way of showing an example without giving a link?

[123Racing]

Originally Posted by philwill4u

I've not come across anyone that says Adwords helps make them money other than the marketing people involved. For shops when you're advertising at $1+ for a click and a good percentage of those are from browsers (not purchasers) and fraud clicks then is it really that good?

What's really needed is a proper pay on sale rather than pay on click. Pay on Sale means that the marketers must do a damn good job and they absorb any fraud clicking.

When is someone going to do a pay on sale AdSense alternative. Surely the market is gaging for it with the ever increasing cost of Adwords.

You bring up some excellent points Phil.

While researching marketing campaigns to promote the free horse racing sweepstakes company that I'm consulting for, I certainly advised AGAINST opening an ADWORDS account.

There are smarter ways to advertise such as CPA, which allow you to set a per lead amount of say .25c rather than a per click amount of .25c

Here's the simple difference:

CPA: You ONLY pay the advertiser .25c for sending REGISTRATIONS to your site (give people an incentive to register for your newsletter etc). A little line of tracking code is inserted on your 'thank you' page. This only records completed registrations so you know that your fixed cost-per-action is .25c per new registrant. ROI is easy to gauge.

100 new members will cost you $25 no matter how many people click though to view your offer/site. You only pay upon a complete registration.

ADWORDS: If you can even find worthwile keywords for .25c each, 100 CLICKS will cost you $25 but how many of those clicks, can we count on registering for more info? 10 maybe so the cost to acquire each new member via an Adwords spend of $25 is going to $2.50 each!

There are many ways to attract customers / members, and smart marketers aren't all recommending Adwords.

I believe the truth is that many large companies have people employed in 'marketing' roles, but have no real clues about INTERNET marketing. Through mass mdeia they have heard of Google / Adwords, and recommend this as the be-all option as it's simple to understand and implement.

What I always set out to do is SAVE smart companies money by diverting them to smarter marketing strategies.

[Peter (IMC)]

Using conversion tracking that many adwords advertisers use, Google can see exactly which adsense sites convert best.

People that choose to sign up to advertise specifically on a website that publishes adsense are in a way voting for the site. Another tool that Google can and most likely does use to determine the quality of an adsense site.

I´m sure they have come up with many other factors that determine the quality (for advertisers of course) of a site that uses adsense.

I´m pretty sure that they use this data to determine how much they´re going to pay the publisher per click. A site that has a high conversion rate is of more value to advertisers and therefore will receive the "better" ads.

Now Google states furiously that they do not use adwords/adsense data in the rankings. So an high ranking adsense site won't rank high because of its quality for advertisers. The 2 systems are completely seperated. (I believe that Google is honest about this.)

Remains the question: "Why do these adsense sites rank so high?" Well here is the fun thing... if you pay a bit attention on the SERP, more often than not you will find that these are low competition SERPs.

The thing still is that for every high traffic keyword phrase, there are thousands of low traffic keyword phrases that together pull in more traffic than the high traffic keyword phrases.

Most of those adsense sites target low competition keyword phrases. That's exactly why adsense sites can be profitable.

These sites generally don't break any rules. They´re not spamming, hiding copy, etc. etc. They´re just sites like many others following the search engine guidelines.

How often do you find sites you really don't like in the SERP's? Even though they are related to the search query you typed in. But when you find adsense in there, aren't you getting a bit jealous? :)

Google can't do anything about honest sites that use adsense, even when it is clear that their only purpose is to get visitors to click on the ads. As long as these sites follow the guidelines, they have as much right to show up in the SERP's as any other site.

Why aren't we jealous of sites that don't use adsense but obviously are showing affiliate links? Pretty much the same thing if you ask me. (search for satellite tv related phrases and try to find a site that is not an affiliate :) )

[Peter (IMC)]

Originally Posted by philwill4u

I've not come across anyone that says Adwords helps make them money other than the marketing people involved. For shops when you're advertising at $1+ for a click and a good percentage of those are from browsers (not purchasers) and fraud clicks then is it really that good?

Well.. then let me be the first one,. :) Adwords helps to make many companies money.

I managed the campaigns of various sites and when ever they start wondering if adwords actually works, the thing to do is simple: Pause the whole campaign and wait for them to call you: "WHAT'S wrong??? No orders yet today???" or,.. "Nobody has called yet!?!?"

Problem solved and absolutely no doubts that adwords works.. :)

There is the occasional site that actually doesn't sell a thing when using adwords. But that´s not because of adwords, it´s because of what they´re selling (believe it or not, but there´s actually a lot of products/services out there that nobody is waiting for... :) )

Of course you do need to set up campaigns correctly, otherwise the costs rise. This is not always so easy and it does happen that in some markets a couple of advertisers compete for the top 3 positions. That´s when it gets expensive and that´s where you need to be careful. That´s also when you´re being tested as an adwords consultant,. :)

[NameCritic]

My own sites do well for the terms I pay for without doing the content part. I'm happy with the net I make from adwords. But I sell services not products.

[urcleanandlean]

A slightly bit off topic but:
Janeth said
Google started looking at how much content was on a page, rather the page links out to other related sites, has a contact us page and a privacy policy.

Does Google look for/require a "contact us" page and a privacy policy to rank websites???

[Peter (IMC)]

Originally Posted by urcleanandlean

A slightly bit off topic but:
Janeth said
Google started looking at how much content was on a page, rather the page links out to other related sites, has a contact us page and a privacy policy.

Does Google look for/require a "contact us" page and a privacy policy to rank websites???

In my opinion, no. Their algoritms need to work in other languages as well,.. good luck with figuring out what a chinese contact us page is.

How much content on a page is a factor I think, and even more so the outgoing links.

[dann]

Originally Posted by geoffreygag

It's just a matter of time, Google needs to clean up these spam sites. If they pay more attention to advertisers that block spam sites

That is my point exactly. It's up to Google to police their publishers NOT the advertisers. I see a big bomb in google's future if they cant straighten this out.
Sell now!!!
Dan

[dviney]

I do recall hearing recently (was it at SES London?) that Google in particular reckon they have a significant shortage of sites on which to place their adsense inventory.

It seems to me that these adsense spam sites are playing a valuable role in filling that gap.

Just joking!

I think the main issue here is that - if you live in a low-cost-of-living economy, you really can support your family on adsense income - but only if you build enough sites!

This problem is thus not going to go away easily... and will grow very very quickly. We will be knee deep in this stuff by Christmas.

[bloxar]

[quote="Peter (IMC)"]
Well.. then let me be the first one,. :) Adwords helps to make many companies money.

I managed the campaigns of various sites and when ever they start wondering if adwords actually works, the thing to do is simple: Pause the whole campaign and wait for them to call you: "WHAT'S wrong??? No orders yet today???" or,.. "Nobody has called yet!?!?"

Problem solved and absolutely no doubts that adwords works.. :)

There is the occasional site that actually doesn't sell a thing when using adwords. But that´s not because of adwords, it´s because of what they´re selling (believe it or not, but there´s actually a lot of products/services out there that nobody is waiting for... :) )

Of course you do need to set up campaigns correctly, otherwise the costs rise. This is not always so easy and it does happen that in some markets a couple of advertisers compete for the top 3 positions. That´s when it gets expensive and that´s where you need to be careful. That´s also when you´re being tested as an adwords consultant,. :)[/quote]

I do agree 100% with your point of view, this is what nobody want to talk about.
Some sites want to sell services and goods that are impossible to sell without the assistance of a pro consultant.

But is so easy to blame google or someone else.

Marketing is a very complex thing, some companies expend thousands of dollars in marketing on TV, news papers, Internet, etc and never are warranties that this campaigns will pay back the money invested.

Publicity as far I know is not only a matter of sell right now, you are branding your products investing for the future of your company/business, exposing your products and services to potential future customers, etc.

Think how many times you buy a product or service when you see an Ad on the TV or magazine. The valuable thing is that you remember who sell this product and when you need this type of product your first option to buy may be the company that you already know thank to its publicity campaign.

Some times people get curious and click on an ad and don’t buy anything this is part of the game.

Make your own experience buy putting and ad on your own site promoting trips to the moon for 20 million dollars a person and you will see how many people will click this ad just for curiosity knowing exactly that they are not to buy any trip.


www.sellbuy1.com

.......

[shoi]

Like others here I have been stiffed by Google and Yahoo/Overture when detecting what is utterly obviously click fraud. After a lot of hassling I got a bit of my money back.

My suggestions:
Opt IN sites -0 so CNN, Guardian, Times etc are IN, and everyone else is OUT
and/or
A published list of useless sites that advertisers can opt to block (like ROKSO/Spamhaus)

(I suspect I would subscribe and pay money to someone who can maintain these 2 lists in such a way I can implement them and update them easily)

and/or
A dead easy way of seeing where your clicks are coming from with a warning email when many clicks come from one site

Steve

[Peter (IMC)]

Remember, with Adwords you can select the sites you want to advertise on. If this is such an issue for someone, they should invest the time to select all the sites they want to advertise on, thus preventing their sites to not show up on any of those so called "spam sites".

[gbaryah]

Just another twist. I personally don't like MFA's and would like to see them banned. I was wondering if the advertiser gets the customer on their site then whats so bad about MFA's.

You might get ever more qualified visitors then what you get from when you Ad appears on Google's search results.

Its just source of getting customers as long as the clicks are not fraudulent.

Just a thought ....

[kgun]

Originally Posted by jrb@w3f.com

What a joke.

Their index bar comes up with no content on 98% of the headings. They use a polish cart/bank too.

I would be suspect of your insinuated recomendation here.

I did not reccomend it at all, but published it as an example of what is going on. May be I should not link to it, but cite it as site dot com. And you should perhaps read my posts in Janeths original thread before you draw your conclusions. My first comment starts on page 4 in that thread.

But here is a more relevant site, search-engine-war with Google PageRank 6 and a section about "Google Clickfraud is it so bad?"

[NameCritic]

Originally Posted by Peter (IMC)

Remember, with Adwords you can select the sites you want to advertise on. If this is such an issue for someone, they should invest the time to select all the sites they want to advertise on, thus preventing their sites to not show up on any of those so called "spam sites".

Yeah, if you manage 2-3 websites thats an option. When you have 40-50 or more it becomes rather difficult don't you think?

[Andilinks]

Yeah, if you manage 2-3 websites thats an option. When you have 40-50 or more it becomes rather difficult don't you think?

This sounds like an opportunity for some coding genius. If it works as has been speculated here it would be a very lucrative program.

[NameCritic]

Originally Posted by Andilinks

This sounds like an opportunity for some coding genius. If it works as has been speculated here it would be a very lucrative program.

I like that. Many saw a problem, you saw an opportunity.

[Peter (IMC)]

Originally Posted by NameCritic

Yeah, if you manage 2-3 websites thats an option. When you have 40-50 or more it becomes rather difficult don't you think?

lol, who said that adwords should work by it self. It´s a tool, not a magic money maker....

[NameCritic]

Originally Posted by Peter (IMC)

Yup I agree, but with that many sites, I just find it easier to participate in search results rather than the content network, because as you say the right way to do it would be to choose the sites your ads appear on.


lol, who said that adwords should work by it self. It´s a tool, not a magic money maker....

[jaydilla]

I dont know what you consider a site to be just made for adsense and ones that aren't. That is very broad. I think alot of relevancy is considered by the visitors. Whats relevant to paul, might not be to Bill. That being said, so does every website that has adsense on it be some spammer site? I say no. What kinda searches you doing? some 7 words search where you usually find these sites? can you show a search term thats within reason that has these sites? Relevance is perceived, therefore in theory every search return is relevant in someones eyes, maybe just not yours.

[Peter (IMC)]

A site that has been set up for just adsense is generally very easy to recognize. It provides no real information and the adsense gives you that "in your face" feeling.

[NameCritic]

Originally Posted by jaydilla

I dont know what you consider a site to be just made for adsense and ones that aren't. That is very broad. I think alot of relevancy is considered by the visitors. Whats relevant to paul, might not be to Bill. That being said, so does every website that has adsense on it be some spammer site? I say no. What kinda searches you doing? some 7 words search where you usually find these sites? can you show a search term thats within reason that has these sites? Relevance is perceived, therefore in theory every search return is relevant in someones eyes, maybe just not yours.

AOL 80 was the new aol release I'm guessing. I don't use aol, but type in aol 80 into google. look at the top site.

As suggested they do not go after the top keywords, but this would be considered a spam site I'd say.

[NameCritic]

Originally Posted by NameCritic

AOL 80 was the new aol release I'm guessing. I don't use aol, but type in aol 80 into google. look at the top site.

As suggested they do not go after the top keywords, but this would be considered a spam site I'd say.

That is of course if you end up at the same page as I did. something with phenom5 in the domain name.

[Andilinks]

The problem is that in 2006 computers, algorithms and AI are just not bright enough to distingush MFA sites from legitimate sites running AdSense placed according to AdSense recommendations.

Google has an unnatural bias against human intervention so we will just have to wait for the technology to catch up to the spammers. Though based on my own considerable experience in dealing with this particular issue I believe Google does do some human-editing of their index to remove spam sites. Note that my own site could be mistaken for a made-for-adsense site if you are not familiar with the subject matter, which is why this is a topic I am well aware of.

Will Google let the problem get so bad that it threatens their dominance? I doubt it.

[Peter (IMC)]

Google has an unnatural bias against human intervention

That "unatural bias" is a blessing. You can be sure that your site gets the same chances as any other site.

[jaydilla]

actually google subcontracts to people like in india and has them review search query results.....look for spam sites, and remove them from their index. So as much as they use to not like to use human intervention, google will do whatever it takes to get their results relevant, including out-sourcing to othe countries to manually remove spam from their serps.