AdSense Sites, ClickFraud etc... etc...

[mike]

Recently, Janeth posted a lively thread about her experience with the AdSense program.

For the most part it went about as those threads do typically. You have a polarization of the posters and it turns into a pro-google vs. anti-google kind of thing (with a few personal insults peppered in for good measure).

It is with that understanding that I would submit for your consideration the following:

I am not anti-Google. I am not pro-Google. I have met and liked more people from Google than I have any other search engine. I use their products extensively and indeed, in many cases, exclusively. I do not run, own, operate or manage any sites participating in the AdSense program.

That established, let me go over a few points of fact. There are many sites created solely for the purpose of resulting in search queries for AdSense clicks.

This is pretty well indisputable. Do a search for just about anything and somewhere within the resultset you are going to run into a site that has obviously been created for no reason other than resulting for that query so it can serve you an AdSense ad. If anybody cares to dispute this as fact, I suppose I can dig up a link or 50 for you with relative ease, but it's typically the case that both opponents and proponents of Google can agree upon this as 'fact'. In short, there do exist, in significant numbers, sites whose sole function is to be an AdSense result.

The degree to which these sites serve any other purpose, function or benefit is sometimes a matter of debate and indeed, some of them are more 'useful' than others. At the end of the day though, we (being the savvy Internet types we are) can pick these sites out with our eyes closed.

Now, if indeed it is the case that these sites exist, the question then becomes two fold. First, could and should Google be doing a better job of identifying these sites? Second, if Google can and should identify these types of site more effectively and declines to do so, is that evil, or just smart business?

It seems on one hand, that the existence of these sites -at some point, assuming people keep making more and more and more of them, would genuinely start to degrade Google's resultset to the point that they are no longer 'the best'. If everything you search for results in a bunch of these junky AdSense sites, then you are going to start looking for a new search engine. Google no doubt realizes this, so it's entirely logical to assume, understanding the risk, they would take steps to cap or somehow limit the number of these sites in their results.

Well, that sounds good and fine and seems reasonable enough. But here's the rub. If Google has the capacity to control how many and what quality of AdSense enabled sites result in their SERPs, and they only do it on the basis that not doing so would jeopardize their resultset and therefore their userbase, then two things have happened.

First, they have not stuck to their strictly algo-based relevance definition in search results that they made their name on. If, after all, a critical mass of these junk sites accumulate in their SERPs, the algo would have to be altered and/or the SERPs would have to be otherwise manipulated.

Second, the extent to which they allow these junky AdSense sites to accumulate up to a point where they would be compelled to act - but have not yet acted would at best be tantamount to a case of compromised principles and at worst, flat out hypocricy.

Your thoughts?

[janeth]

Google used AdWords Quality Score to take care of a lot of these websites. People paying .07 cents a click saw their prices rise to $1.00 and $2.00 per click.

Google started looking at how much content was on a page, rather the page links out to other related sites, has a contact us page and a privacy policy.

Although once these things are fixed you can be back in the game.

It seems all Google would have to do to fix the problem is make pages with no text on them not rank.

I don’t like sites that make me have to continue clicking to find the information I’m looking for.

Finding a directory or any site with a lot of ads and no text will eventually hurt Google.

[dann]

Originally Posted by janeth

I don’t like sites that make me have to continue clicking to find the information I’m looking for.

I don't think the advertisers like it very much either. I think this is what will prompt Google to have more stringent controls on publishers. That is where the problem lies.
Google is not the only search engine returning these MFA sites in the serps. There is a simple way to shut these sites down and that is if advertisers would stop using content match this internet noise pollution would stop.
Just my opinion of course.
Dan

[mike]

Well, yeah, but if you're Google, isn't that noise you refer to something like 'cha-ching'?

In other words it really isn't in their own (Google's) interest for these kinds of sites to diminish -at this point. But it does seem, if you follow a progession line, that at some point down the road they'll have to check them somehow or other or they will run the risk of burning up some userbase.

Or not... I dunno. I'm just asking. Seems logical to me.

(Oh and for the record, I can't imagine why anyone would use content match unless they were just tired of having money. But that's another subject for another thread.)

[crankydave]

Originally Posted by mike

Well, yeah, but if you're Google, isn't that noise you refer to something like 'cha-ching'?

In other words it really isn't in their own (Google's) interest for these kinds of sites to diminish -at this point. But it does seem, if you follow a progession line, that at some point down the road they'll have to check them somehow or other or they will run the risk of burning up some userbase.

Or not... I dunno. I'm just asking. Seems logical to me.

(Oh and for the record, I can't imagine why anyone would use content match unless they were just tired of having money. But that's another subject for another thread.)

Quite right.

Let's say for example they have reached critical mass. They have the quantity of sites they're comfortable with, now we work on quality. As each new one is approved, the ones at the "bottom" as far as what they "provide" in the means of quality (revenue?) are concerned are found in "violation" and removed.

Dave

( yes, the content network is little more than filling the "bowl" and pulling the chain)

[kgun]

Originally Posted by mike

It seems on one hand, that the existence of these sites -at some point, assuming people keep making more and more and more of them, would genuinely start to degrade Google's resultset to the point that they are no longer 'the best'. If everything you search for results in a bunch of these junky AdSense sites, then you are going to start looking for a new search engine.

May be the profitability of the sites will reduce the number. A lot of people rushed to Klondike to find gold. Only a few found. Most of them failed.

The original intent of AdSense was to provide Ad related to content. Which control is there on the content of the sites that supply AdSense or other Ad? Some of them give automated approval. Google does it indirectly, since the first site has to be approved. Since then code can be copy and pasted into n new sites. There is the great potential for misuse as Janeth pointed at in her thread.

As a sidenote, I found this site today: "Adsense Website" in PHP Scripts / Ad Management Programs"

"WebAdsense Search Engine its a very profitable search engine script with integrated Google AdSense or Yahoo Publisher Network, Amazon, Ebay and Clickbank. AdSense ads are displayed on the first three positions."
Source: Scripts.com.

[effisk]

Originally Posted by mike

First, they have not stuck to their strictly algo-based relevance definition in search results that they made their name on. If, after all, a critical mass of these junk sites accumulate in their SERPs, the algo would have to be altered and/or the SERPs would have to be otherwise manipulated.

You are assuming their algo has not been altered already (or the serps already manipulated). What makes you think so?

As a sidenote, kgun, you always manage to sneak in a few links with approrpiate anchor text in your messages. Are they your clients?

[jrb@w3f.com]

Originally Posted by mike

Well, yeah, but if you're Google, isn't that noise you refer to something like 'cha-ching'?

Yup.

There is a balance between cutting off their 'cha-ching' and making search users happier.

Kinda like raising prices until your bottom-line stops going up. It isn't the gross income, as many calculate.

My big problem isn't with the link farms as much as it is that the AdSense does not match the content very well on many sites, as an exit toward your search resolution is not there, and you have to go back to google and try another keyword set, or try another listing.

I also think they ban, or limit many good content sites that don't ruin their sites just to fit some of the silly algo's.

Upping the base cost of AdSense is an attempt to maximise Googles profits. If people want to bid a penny, then let them never show up. Or, they can show up cheap for a category that no one else is in. Minimums cut out the good content sites in some categories, because they provide only good info, and don't sell something. They can't afford it. Sad.

But you can't be all thing to all people. <sigh>

Maybe someday they will work harder on what Google is all about (besides the money issues).

[jrb@w3f.com]

Originally Posted by kgun

As a sidenote, I found this site today: "Adsense Website" in PHP Scripts / Ad Management Programs"

What a joke.

Their index bar comes up with no content on 98% of the headings. They use a polish cart/bank too.

I would be suspect of your insinuated recomendation here.

[davidmg]

Everytime I find one of the adsense spam sites that my ads might appear on I block them. Hopefully if enough adwords users start blocking the same sites from wanting their ads to appear there it might throw up a red flag to google or it might just start costing the spamemrs more to adveritze and maintain their sites and cause them to shut themselves down.

I also would like to state that just recently I confronted adwords wanting to know why my adwords account showed 128 clicks on one ad leading to a certain page and why adsense that tracks the hits (times) they show an ad on that page only showed 86 hits for the same day. I asked if I was being fraudlantly charged on the front end or not getting paid everything on the back end and the only explaination was they they each report clicks differently and they weren't sure ohw the other one worked. When isn't a click a click and showing an ad showing an ad if it's all on the same page?

[philwill4u]

It's a natural progression for Google to now seek to retain its best customers by removing or reducing the placement of their ads on low quality sites. Sites that have just Adwords and nothing much else fit the bill and should be banished.

If Google didn't do this then their brand is perceived as matching the lowest common denominator and will gradually diminish their appeal.

Makes sense to me. Some other business will pick up the LCDs if anyone wants to use them to promote their own brand. There is always a market.

[jrb@w3f.com]

Originally Posted by davidmg

Everytime I find one of the adsense spam sites that my ads might appear on I block them. Hopefully if enough adwords users start blocking the same sites from wanting their ads to appear there it might throw up a red flag to google or it might just start costing the spamemrs more to adveritze and maintain their sites and cause them to shut themselves down.

I also would like to state that just recently I confronted adwords wanting to know why my adwords account showed 128 clicks on one ad leading to a certain page and why adsense that tracks the hits (times) they show an ad on that page only showed 86 hits for the same day. I asked if I was being fraudlantly charged on the front end or not getting paid everything on the back end and the only explaination was they they each report clicks differently and they weren't sure ohw the other one worked. When isn't a click a click and showing an ad showing an ad if it's all on the same page?

Excellent points...

I might refine your blocking a bit further, by reviewing that "AdSenseSpam" sites relationship to your sold products. If they are making you money, then why block them? If not, then, by all means, a good move. I think we should all do that. The end result is that our ad costs will go down without hurting our sales.

I think the spam sites get far more than the merchants get from their ad dollars.

Good post.

[dann]

davidmg, two possibilities I can think of. Bot clicks and accidental clicks where "back" was clicked before your page could load.
Unfortunately probably bot clicks imo.
Dan

[carju1]

What I can never understand in this whole process is why anyone bothers to leave google when looking for products and therefore how the adsense farms survive.

If I search on Google for say Dishwashers, I get 3 Adword ads then the generical search results and the rest of the paid adverts on the right. If I click on a 'real' algo search result (for dishwashers the 4th one is appliance.com) and its designed a an adsense farm then all it gives me is the same result as the paid ad word advertisers I just saw on Google less those who opt out of content network.

So why does anyone click on these adsense farms as they are just giving cut down version of what you just saw on Google. Now a-days when I'm looking to buy or compare products I just click on the adword advertisers shown on the google search pages.

The other thing that is starting to annoy me is those algo search results that aren't pointing to adsense farms all point to either Yahoo's Kelkoo or ebay/paypal's shopping.com site or even one of there affiliates. As I said its easier just to click adwords on the google search.

Julian

[davidmg]

jrb@w3f.com wrote:

I might refine your blocking a bit further, by reviewing that "AdSenseSpam" sites relationship to your sold products. If they are making you money, then why block them? If not, then, by all means, a good move. I think we should all do that. The end result is that our ad costs will go down without hurting our sales.

We track where every sale came from and back link to that page to see what key words were used and what the results were from those pages. I have found no sales from many of these sites and multiple clicks within a short period of time from them. That is why I have choosen to block my ads from thier sites.

Also every time I see an adwords ad that says directory I like to click on it. Yes I admit that I cause fraudlent clicks! I just know it costs them money and my google stock to go up!

[jrb@w3f.com]

Originally Posted by davidmg

jrb@w3f.com wrote:

I might refine your blocking a bit further, by reviewing that "AdSenseSpam" sites relationship to your sold products. If they are making you money, then why block them? If not, then, by all means, a good move. I think we should all do that. The end result is that our ad costs will go down without hurting our sales.

We track where every sale came from and back link to that page to see what key words were used and what the results were from those pages. I have found no sales from many of these sites and multiple clicks within a short period of time from them. That is why I have choosen to block my ads from thier sites.

Also every time I see an adwords ad that says directory I like to click on it. Yes I admit that I cause fraudlent clicks! I just know it costs them money and my google stock to go up!

Sounds like you have a good handle on it. WTG.
And thanks for the insight.

[davidmg]

jrb@w3f.com
Is your cool guy -cool find site adsense spam? Do you pay for keywords?

[NameCritic]

Originally Posted by davidmg

jrb@w3f.com
Is your cool guy -cool find site adsense spam? Do you pay for keywords?

Hmmm. Just looks like an article directory to me. Would anyone say ezinearticles.com is adsense spam? They have submitted articles and have adsense on the page.

At least its content.

I hate the junk and spammy sites as much as anyone, but have stopped buying adwords for the content network altogether. Can't support it until google either "chooses" to or "finds" a way to clean up their mess.

I'm sure they don't miss my little adwords budget, but I suspect I'm not alone.

[123Racing]

Even though I have some sites displaying AdSense, when I'm actually surfing, I never even see any AdSense ads embedded on the pages I visit, as I employ an aggressvie ad blocker that just eliminates EVERY bit of AdSense displayed on the page, along with some other annoying ads.

Makes a very nice EXPLODING sound when each ad is destroyed...only problem is that I seem to surf an awful lot of pages with lots of WHITESPACE on them! lol

I have no doubt than many surfers are employing these types of tools, and if enough install these type of blockers so that they only locate real products, what might be the result?

The result might be that publishers would go back to promoting affiliate banners and links, and they could still flood the search engines with article/review sites much like they're doing already, but with banners and text links instead of AdSense.

Let's not overlook that millions of 'article' style pages are being churned out with actual 'content', with no other intention than to serve AdSense. Thankfully my BLOCKER takes care of the majority of ads so I can just READ, otherwise I'd be hopping here and there from clicking on AdSense links (mainly because the descriptions often tend to entice you off the page your viewing).

My point is that if people are sick of seeing AdSense everywhere, and on sites considered valueless, surf with a good ad blocker program.

David Bowden