#1 Google Ranking For Over Two Years?

[hookah]

Our main competitor is http://www.hookah-shisha.com. As you'll see from their site it's not well optimized nor do they have an abundance of IBL.

Both of our two main keywords are "hookah" and "shisha". If you Google those two keywords you'll see that they come up #1 for both. These #1 rankings have remained every day for over two years and have not moved a single spot.

Also note the extra links below their result:

Hookah Pipes - Discounted Items!!
Hookah Coals - Shisha Tobacco
More results from www.hookah-shisha.com »

What are these extra links and how do they achieve them? I've never seen such extra links and it almost appears they are purchased.

So my questions are as follows; how are they achieving #1 ranking for over two years without ever moving and how are they achieving the extra links below their results?

[scanmonkey]

Those extra links below your competitor's results are a neat little trick.

That's the first time I noticed that. I'm guessing that it has something to do with froogle.

[Ellio]

I have seen this on several "Authority" sites but never before on a PR4 site with only 32 links showing in Google and 454 in Yahoo!

Google really likes them for some unknown reason.

[janeth]

It's not the number of links but the anchor text in the links.

They may show very few links but have more links with the correct anchor text then anyone else.

[amffcom]

I've been number one on Google for the term "firefighter" for quite some time now. I also have the extra links under my listing: http://www.google.com/search?q=firefighter

Does google favor hyphenated domains?

[DomainChick]

Originally Posted by hookah

Also note the extra links below their result:

Hookah Pipes - Discounted Items!!
Hookah Coals - Shisha Tobacco
More results from www.hookah-shisha.com »

It’s interesting to note that when those links are clicked on a “The page cannot be displayed” page is all that’s shown.





Regards,
Kimmy

[DomainChick]

Originally Posted by amffcom

Does google favor hyphenated domains?

They do seem to fair exceptionally well in the serps, don’t they?

[tinobuntic]

Google has been experimenting with those extra links underneath the #1 search result. It just recently started. So, no, that Hookah site did not pay for it. Google will NEVER EVER allow anything in their generic search to be influenced by payment to them.

Eventually all, or most, of Google's search results will have those extra links for the number one position. Right now, i believe, it's a test run.

[iwebgeek]

Hyphenating a URL will make a difference, as it helps the search engine pick out important keywords in the URL.

[jason559]

So, how does a site, like mine, that is #1 get those links? I thought running the google sitemap did it, am I wrong?

[webgurl]

Originally Posted by janeth

It's not the number of links but the anchor text in the links.

Can you remove the line under your anchor text links in your CSS as sometimes the underline makes the reading difficult.

I am speaking from a SEO perspective and not an accessability perspective.

[bugmenot]

Originally Posted by hookah

Our main competitor is http://www.hookah-shisha.com. As you'll see from their site it's not well optimized nor do they have an abundance of IBL.

Both of our two main keywords are "hookah" and "shisha". If you Google those two keywords you'll see that they come up #1 for both. These #1 rankings have remained every day for over two years and have not moved a single spot.

Also note the extra links below their result:

Hookah Pipes - Discounted Items!!
Hookah Coals - Shisha Tobacco
More results from www.hookah-shisha.com »

What are these extra links and how do they achieve them? I've never seen such extra links and it almost appears they are purchased.

So my questions are as follows; how are they achieving #1 ranking for over two years without ever moving and how are they achieving the extra links below their results?

Age determines a big part of Googles ranking algo. Their domain has, and always will, have a 3 year headstart on yours...

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://...kah-shisha.com

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.hookahhub.com/

[AndrewX]

I've got those nifty little links for one of my authority sites. The site has been #1 for it's keyword for years and no I didn't pay, and no it doesn't use Google sitemaps.

I think they simply recognize certain sites as the authority and viola: extra links. How they decide what these links are, I don't know exactly. Probably a formula of link popularity for the subpages, just a guess.

[DomainChick]

Originally Posted by tinobuntic

Eventually all, or most, of Google's search results will have those extra links for the number one position. Right now, i believe, it's a test run.

Wow Tino, I guess puts an even greater emphasis on that coveted #1 spot.





Best wishes,
Kimmy

[davidredwine]

To see if those links relate to number one ranking, I looked to see what Google said about their ranking.

Step 1 - Went to Goodle directory http://www.google.com/dirhp

Step 2 - Click Shopping, then Recreation, then Drugs, then Head Shops.

Step 3 - See that the site in question (that gets the fancy non working extra links that result in "page cannot be displayed" IS ACTUALLY RANKED 5TH in Google Page Ranking order.

So, hmmm that means that if Google's page rank is #1 in the directory, your site could be beaten be 5th place competitor? hmmmmm. Is there possible some inside programming action going on there? Maybe friends in googly places help shoddy sites by artificially pushing their position? Maybe not, but sure looks fishy.

Anyway, I have a hard time buying that "they got the extra links because of their number one page rank" theory because of the fact they're actually listed 5th by Googles own directory-page rank.

I see extra links for cbs, nbc, abc, book, cars, downloads, halliburton, washington post,

The thing all these sites have in common is that they are deep and wide. Maybe only the biggest sites (from Google's bot perspective) deserve extra links?

[davidredwine]

P.S. Whoever built this site did a VERY nice job. It's hard to see how the other site beats it.
dr

[AndrewX]

davidredwine,

Careful with your terms. PageRank and SERP rank are obviously very different, and I think you were the first to bring up "PageRank", previous comments simply referred to SERP rank. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Nevertheless, the fact that the site in question is in DMOZ is interesting factor. (G directory is DMOZ clone.) My site with the extra links is also in DMOZ. Didn't research it, but is SERP rank #1 *and* DMOZ inclusion a factor in getting the extra links?

[davidredwine]

Ok, Andrew

I'll give you that and agree with you that the PR (Page Rank) rating of 1 to 10 should not be confused with SERP (Search Engine Results Page listings of actual site entries returned after entering a search term in a search engines "Search" box).

But still, it seems a little odd that the 5th PR rated site on the Google directory (DMOZ clone) would be listed in position #1 on the SERP (Search Engine Results Page).

[davidredwine]

AndrewX,

When I put in "money talk at" google, I do get a site with those 5 extra links below it, but it is not yours.

htt p: // www. money - talk .org/

What phrase should I use to see your site appear with the links?

[AndrewX]

davidredwine,

It's not really that odd.

Many sites that are ranked #1 in the SERPs are not in DMOZ/Google directory at all.

More to the point though, PageRank is not a primary factor in rankings, other factors such as link popularity and anchor text can play a much more significant role. This is why you can find #1 rankings for sites that have little or no PageRank. Sites generally win in the rankings because of inbound anchor text matching the search terms. Sure there are other factors like site title, on page text, outbound anchor text, link popularity, etc, but remember strong PR is good, but strong anchor text is even better with regards to a specific search phrase.

This is why there isn't the correlation between PR and SERP rank in this case (and many others).

Regarding your other question, I've got lots of sites, and although Money Talk is in DMOZ, it's not the site in question. I'd prefer to leave it out of the limelight. ;)

[alextj]

Hi guys,

I've seen this as well off and on - in a search for 'traduttore inglese', which means 'English translator' in Italian, on google.it the first placed site has had those extra links for about a year. It's a free site that uses the translator as a honey trap.

I haven't found the answer, but one thing did strike me - has anyone noticed where the actual text for those links has come from? Not the page title, not the page name, and not the headings on the page...

First up I thought perhaps they could have come from the keywords where they ranked first or well on other searches, but that doesn't seem to bear out. Though I haven't checked this out, I presume they come from the link anchor text, but that would probably mean they also rank well as I had thought above...maybe the on-page factors weren't up to par.

(Re-reading that last sentence it has occurred to me that with a bit of algebra and enough examples, might it in theory be able to work backwards and find the ratio of importance for on-page versus off-page - links and anchor text - factors for ranking....that is if my theory holds true....hmmm)

Back on topic...I thought when I first saw the phenomenon that it was because of their sub-domains but the examples you've al given so far don't seem to back that up. So my best guess is from links and anchor text from other search terms where they rank well (that would be the logical source of the text snippets, and would also explain the sense of 'authority', or at least popularity) tested out in beta over the last year and only for the top site....what say you?

Take care

[scanmonkey]

According to Matt Cutts "the algorithms pick the sites where adding the extra links could be helpful".

Here's the link for further reading:
http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/ui-fun-better-snippets

[philiefay]

It seems to me that they have spammed their page title completely with their key words. I ran it through sitereportcard.com and they scored fairly well with the exception of their title 166 characters. I actually thought the techniques they employ would be classed as spam: According to SiteReportCard.com they have a link populariry in google for 14,800???

[philiefay]

Additionally, their keyword "hookah" has a density of 19.70%

[TrafficProducer]

amffcom wrote:

Does google favor hyphenated domains?
They do seem to fair exceptionally well in the serps, don’t they?

It looks like hyphenated domains do get higher traffic, must be content relavant to the domain name (Keywords).

One problem is users may not like having to type the hyphenated URL, so the Traffic must come from links to that URL.

Top websites. Domains Top Address. Domain Names for sale. Sell your Domain Names.

[kevangogh]

This isn't really that hard to figure out.

1) The #1 site is really just a very simple, clean home page for ranking purposes - this is no accident. Once he gets his visitors (due in large part to his #1 spot), he then smartly redirects them into the shop with a shopping cart link or relatively few well placed links. The OP, on the otherhand, is using a complex shopping cart as his home page with tons of code. It may be "prettier" than the #1 site, but the #1 site is the one bringing em' in.

2) The OP overuses the work "hookah", I'm not going to count how many times he uses it.

3) The hyphenated domain name helps mainly because everyone who links to him is using his keywords - his keywords are his domain name. Fewer links, but they all use the keywords. This can be overcome but the OP will have to try harder.

4) The OP went completely overkill by adding all those links to the bottom of the home page - use a site map for this. It reeks of spam, sorry.

"If it were me" I'd move that shopping cart somewhere else and build a really lean and mean home page using CSS or something. A few inviting images and some well written text (content). Then invite the users in through a link or two.

[incrediblehelp]

I am not sure why this hyphenated domain talk started without someone squashing it, but these hyphenated domains have no advantage over ones without. In fact keywords in the domains barely have much an effect in Google. Now this is not the case in Yahoo and MSN. Yahoo has even said before that they may flag domains with more than three hyphens as SPAM.

Also scanmonkey is right, those links are picked by the Google algo, but it is clear sign of Google trusting a website when it does it.

One thing when looking at the back likes of hookah-shisha.com is the diversity from different countries they are getting links from. TLD's from Italy, France, America, Belgium and many more. Could this diversity help weight this site higher in Google? Doubt it but it is something to look at, I have never tested it.

bugmenot is right on with the age of the website. This is a big influence in Google. hookah you have asked this question before 2-3 times in WPW and I answered the other times with the same thing as bugmenot stated.

[scanmonkey]

Originally Posted by incrediblehelp

One thing when looking at the back likes of hookah-shisha.com is the diversity from different countries they are getting links from. TLD's from Italy, France, America, Belgium and many more. Could this diversity help weight this site higher in Google? Doubt it but it is something to look at, I have never tested it.

Incrediblehelp, very interesting theory that you have picked-up on. Could be one of the components that make it an authority site?

[incrediblehelp]

Maybe so on international type websites? Hookah content definitely has a more international flavor than most websites. When looking to SPAM I would think it would be difficult to manipulate multiple language websites, all though not impossible. Maybe this is why Google is weighting it higher.

For us here in the US the "magic IBL's" are from .gov and .edu websites. Even websites that have .com, .net or .org TLD that have .edu and .gov TLD's linking to them help your website more than normal. Meaning a more "trusted" .com in the Goggle index is one that has IBL's from .edu and/or .gov websites.

Matt Cutts talks about these link patterns and flows from one website to another all the time.

[Hqaman]

Originally Posted by hookah

Our main competitor is Hookah and Shisha Central - Buy Hookas, Shisha Tobacco, Hooka Tobacco, Cheap Hookah Pipes and smoking accessories. - Hookah and Shisha Central. As you'll see from their site it's not well optimized nor do they have an abundance of IBL.

Both of our two main keywords are "hookah" and "shisha". If you Google those two keywords you'll see that they come up #1 for both. These #1 rankings have remained every day for over two years and have not moved a single spot.

Also note the extra links below their result:

Hookah - Discounted Items!!
Hookah Coals - Shisha Tobacco
More results from Hookah and Shisha Central - Buy Hookas, Shisha Tobacco, Hookah Tobacco, Cheap Hookah Pipes and smoking accessories. - Hookah and Shisha Central »

What are these extra links and how do they achieve them? I've never seen such extra links and it almost appears they are purchased.

So my questions are as follows; how are they achieving #1 ranking for over two years without ever moving and how are they achieving the extra links below their results?

Yes, as far as the extra links, that is something that comes and goes from various websites, perhaps it's on some revolving scale (that would be nice.)

But I think hookah-shisha.com has remained on top because of their consistency and site age.

Also a curious thing to note is that they did a website transfer a year ago from a pretty basic site (old hookah site) vs (new hookah site.)

I noticed that they did drop in the ranking for "hookah" for a while with the new site, but they seemed to have made a come back.

Also thats another thing to watch out for that kinda threw me off is: I ordered a lot from Hookah-Shisha.com, but I once ordered from (smoking-hookah.com) Hookah, Shisha, Hooka, Hookahs One-Stop Online Shop and I was disappointed to see that they shipped out of Israel (vs. Austin, TX for H-S). Do you think Google takes account of these things. Because if you go to smoking-hookah the only address you see is someone in New Jersey, but they clearly ship from overseas, do you think this could be some sort of protectionist movement by Google. Once they found out the site was mis-leading people, they penalized them?

Also I just placed an order over the phone with hookah-shisha, and asked them if they had any inside deal with google, and the guy (who was very nice btw) told me that he thinks it's because of age...

Anyways I am glad to see hookah-shisha.com back on top of google. Smoking hookah took forever... Great company, just too far away.

[scanmonkey]

I liked the old hookah site. If it's not broken why fix it? Looks like they have some sort of Joomla site. The new site is good; but, I wouldn't want to take a hit in the rankings that the upgrade caused.

I doubt that there is a "smoking-hookah" protectionist movement by Google. It could be that (smoking-hookah.com) is getting a lot of links from non US websites since they are based out of Israel. Check to see if they have a lot of EU or Israeli backlinks.