Supplemental club

[Ellio]

Not sure how many of you have been following the thread on WMW but I am interested if anyone here has been hit by the bug.

The symptoms are only effecting BD and are:

1. Most site pages dissapeared from index (using site:)

2. Homepage only listed correctly

3. Many supplementals listed including old pages and a few existing pages.

Google Guy has confirmed that Google are aware of the problem and he has promised a fix by mid next week.

We were effected, any other club members here?

[seofan]

Card carrying member here..... 3000+ pages tanked. Traffic down 50% - so are sales. We saw a message from GoogleGuy on WMW - and his post indicated a bug is in BD. The indication was that they would be "fixing" the problem - but that still doesn't ensure that sites in the "club" will recover....

[Ellio]

Thanks Dave, William & Seofan,

I am sure the club is getting bigger by the hour.

Lets hope GG has the power to act on his words and get things back on track by next week.

I was just starting to like Big Daddy!

I have a horible gut feeling that it may not be an easy fix though.....and previous ranking may be lost if re-indexed pages/links are treated as new.

More info at:

http://www.webworkshop.net/seoforum/...ic.php?t=10148

http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum30/33433.htm

http://www.seobook.com/archives/001545.shtml

Although further comment just here would be nice.

[incrediblehelp]

Ellio nothing you can do about it and it is not your fault. Google's updating of their infrastructure is causing many websites to have only home page indexed and all sub-pages slip into the Supplemental Index (Google Hell). You just have to wait until Google fixes, but of course none of this is new news to you.

A post at Search Engine Journal has decent write up on this issue and Miles Evans is just as pissed as you.

[Grinler]

I am part of this club...but I really do not see why people think all their pages are going into the supp index. From what I have seen, its an issue of your active legitimate pages being dropped from the index altogether.

[incrediblehelp]

Originally Posted by Grinler

I am part of this club...but I really do not see why people think all their pages are going into the supp index. From what I have seen, its an issue of your active legitimate pages being dropped from the index altogether.

um, because some are seeing their pages go into the supplemental index and some are seeing the pages disappear all together. Both are happening.

[Mel]

In one site which I went through carefully about 25% of the pages listed with a site: search were listed as supplemental results, but all of these werer old pages that were removed from the site 8 months ago and 301'd to the replacement pages.


All the new pages are indexed but rankings and traffic have dropped, and I have confirmed that all the 301s are working properly.

Looks like indexing problems to me and that perhaps they are going back to some old data as an interim measure.

[clasione]

I one of the people effected..... I have lost 106,000 pages and traffic and revenue down about 75%..... It is a terrible experience.....

Most valuable pages have been completely dropped and the rest have gone supplemental.

[Pascal77]

Originally Posted by janeth

Is it just me or does everyone have a hard time understanding what Ken is trying to say?

Why can't you just post in English Ken?

Please don't start a forum wit a lot of blabla and less SEO.(not personally, just don't want to read threads where messages have nothing to do with SEO)

Back to Google
I lost 80% traffic and 70% income.

I don't like this joke. The last 6 months it's been always something with Google's SERP's.
Updating, bigdaddy, problems, ...

And the result is that i see more SPAM in the SERP's and less relevant results.

Do i am alone with this opinion or are there other people who also noticed this?

[red]

I'm having a bit of trouble following this discussion.
Could someone take a moment and please explain how one would find out how many of their pages (if any) are in THE CLUB?
Also, how would I check to see if my own 301's have been mishandled by G.
Everytime I land here I get paranoid or I come for answers because I am paranoid...one or the other. I don't ever do anything wrong on purpose (which I'm sure is the case with most folks) but land in the soup every now and then anyway.
This past week our sales have been very sluggish; it's very unusual far a mature company to see their sales halve from one week to the next.
I want to know if it's just a normal glitch, a hiccup, or if something else is amiss.
Thanks for your time!
Red

[janeth]

Hi Red,

If I'm wrong someone can correct me. (-:

But if you go to 66.249.93.104 and do a search for site:yoursite.com and it shows your pages in the supplemental index and then you do a search on a DC that is not using bigdaddy and it does not show you as being in the supplemental index then you have been hit.

No one knows how long it will take Google to fix the problem.

It seems they could either go back or stop showing the bigdaddy results until the problem was fixed but they don't seem to be doing that.

[janeth]

Here is a sample of an effected site

[Mel]

It looks to me like SEOchat may be back in the good graces of goofle as I see thier PR back to 7 and 469,000 pages in the Google index.

Itlooks like this is being taken care even if it is a bit slow.

[Pascal77]

Originally Posted by red

I'm having a bit of trouble following this discussion.
Could someone take a moment and please explain how one would find out how many of their pages (if any) are in THE CLUB?
Also, how would I check to see if my own 301's have been mishandled by G.
Everytime I land here I get paranoid or I come for answers because I am paranoid...one or the other. I don't ever do anything wrong on purpose (which I'm sure is the case with most folks) but land in the soup every now and then anyway.
This past week our sales have been very sluggish; it's very unusual far a mature company to see their sales halve from one week to the next.
I want to know if it's just a normal glitch, a hiccup, or if something else is amiss.
Thanks for your time!
Red

If you don't do anything wrong on purpose you don't have to worry much i think. Landing in the soup is the last months normal in my opinion.
But your sales are nothing with these facts.
Google is not going good the last months.
What i find the wurst is that most sites affected are sites who are playing the game like it should played. I don't have a problem with that if it is for a short while but i do have a problem with it when it continues.

Like i said, i don't like the troubles last weeks/months. SERP's are unreliable and that affects not only the sites and SEO'ers but it affects the whole market and slows it down. That is for nobody a good case

[seofan]

In my opinion - Google will HAVE to do some re-indexing because there are thousands of sites that have had legitimate, fresh data and pages dropped to the SuppleMENTAL Club due to their infrastructure problems with Big Daddy.

After much comparison and analysis with other site owners/SEO's, a common denominator is duplicate content.

Sites that have dynamically generated data that did not address things as simple as assignment of unique Title Tags seemed to have triggered supplemental status under the "duplicate data" umbrella even though the content was unique and fresh / valid.

[Ellio]

Nice feedback everybody (except Greeneagle who yet again does not even understand the thread issue being discussed)

I reckon we will have lots more to say by Tuesday if a large number of member sites have not yet been fixed.

But why should we have to have our fingers crossed so often.

[Pascal77]

Originally Posted by williamc

I just want some of whatever he is drinking or smoking. It *HAS* to be some good stuff!!

I repeat leave the off-topic messages elsewhere please.

I find the topic to important to let it go to an argue-topic.

I am very intrested in hearing other sites which are affected and how big the dammage is.
Also i want to now the latest news from Google about this sad happening. And i wonder or there is somebody else who feels that Google must do something to siteowners who are affected. Because last months my income has going down and there are NOT less spamresults in SERP's.
Also i raise the question why they don't do more with the spamfeedback that much webmasters give them.
Maybe they should use less algoritms and more feedback?

[Ellio]

Pascall77:
Also i raise the question why they don't do more with the spamfeedback that much webmasters give them.
Maybe they should use less algoritms and more feedback?

The above is not related to this thread.

You yourself stated you wanted the thread on track so lets keep it focused on the "Club"

[williamc]

Originally Posted by Pascal77

I find the topic to important to let it go to an argue-topic.

#1. There is nothing to be found to do about the issue on our ends, so it is not remotely close to important really, as it is just a glitch on googles end, which they are aware of and working to correct.

And i wonder or there is somebody else who feels that Google must do something to siteowners who are affected. Because last months my income has going down and there are NOT less spamresults in SERP's.

#2. It is a privledge to be in their index in a prominant ranking, not something owed to you or any of us. Google does not owe you a living. They do not need to *do* anything to reimburse you in any way, shape, or form for any lost revenue. Diversify. Again, Google knows of the issue and are already working on fixing it. All we can do is sit and wait.

Also i raise the question why they don't do more with the spamfeedback that much webmasters give them. Maybe they should use less algoritms and more feedback?

That is off-topic but:

Maybe they should spend another billion or 2 a year hiring people to answer every complaint that comes in you mean? Think about how many pages google has indexed and what an approximate percentage are spammish. Now think about how many people are sending in reports daily, not to mention having to guess which ones are legitimate and which are just so-called seo's reporting competitors because they cant rank any other way.

I sure as hell wouldnt answer them individually either.

More off topic: This having to click "Watch this topic for replies" everytime I make a reply so i can get the emails is getting annoying fast.

[seofan]

Interesting. It looks like our site got kicked out of the SuppleMENTAL Club.

We DID correct 302 redirects to 301 appropriately before seeing the site go "non-supplemental". 2068 out of 4000+ pages back in the index is a wonderful sight..........

[Pascal77]

#2. It is a privledge to be in their index in a prominant ranking, not something owed to you or any of us. Google does not owe you a living. They do not need to *do* anything to reimburse you in any way, shape, or form for any lost revenue. Diversify. Again, Google knows of the issue and are already working on fixing it. All we can do is sit and wait.

I strongly disagree. It is a priviledge for Google to have relevant sites in their index.
Relevant sites means happy visitors and staying visitors.
That"s where Google makes his profits.

Maybe they should spend another billion or 2 a year hiring people to answer every complaint that comes in you mean? Think about how many pages google has indexed and what an approximate percentage are spammish. Now think about how many people are sending in reports daily, not to mention having to guess which ones are legitimate and which are just so-called seo's reporting competitors because they cant rank any other way.

Maybe they can develop a website where you can give in the url's. The website checks immediately or it is spam and gives the message to the database. Then only the spamsites remain where it is not obvious spamming. They can be checked manually and they can figure out how they can calculate this sites also so that they are reported as spam.
If they do this they don't have to put so much spamalgoritms in their searchengine(spamalgoritmes in the spamchecker except some easy ones).
I am convinced that it will help them also to work preciser to relevancy.

[westie]

Thanks for posts guys!

One of my sites - ukcoastguide has been in SR for five or six months due to - whatever - maybe past mistakes. However it just emerged from SR on 23 Feb after intense crawling by googlebot. Great - all pages into index and immediate traffic. Then - just as suddenly, on 4 March wham back into SR showing a selection of pages some of which are over one year old!

We were really disappointed - until we found this thread - so hopefully we will re-emerge when problem is fixed.

PS My brother in law has just bought a brand new tractor. Its yellow!!!! lol

[crankydave]

Originally Posted by westie

We were really disappointed - until we found this thread - so hopefully we will re-emerge when problem is fixed.

Ellio, Westie, Red and the rest still following this thread...

When I checked this morning, the number of data centers displaying largely supplemental results had dropped dramatically.

As has been pointed out by others already, it appears Google has a fix in place.

Dave

[janeth]

Thanks for the update Dave.

Maybe they will have it all back by the end of the day. (-:

Ken this proves Google likes spam, they are putting it all back now. O-;

[janeth]

Is anyone other than Dave seeing their site coming back?

[williamc]

Phil's is coming back now too.

[SPC2]

Phil = me.

Yes, mine is coming back. I hoovered the walls and microwaved the picket fences, and the foliage is returning from the desert island :-)

[Ellio]

LOL Mel,

Any "member" effected should indicate their current status at my poll: http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=61634

We can then start to judge if Google really is fixing this monster.

[Ellio]

Lets not forget many of us are yet to recover our websites...

[SPC2]

That's very strange. I don't see why some sites should recover and not others. Maybe we are looking at different DCs, and not all DCs have been dealt with yet.

[williamc]

Yes, Dave said in the poll thread that he was still seeing messed results in 6 DC's.

[Ellio]

We are still in exactly the same position on all BD DC's:

Homepage + Supplementals.

I am hoping they fix is being applied over a few days otherwise it has not helped our cause.

[westie]

Hi Ellio and all

Good news for us - came out of SR about mid-day today (UK). Just about all pages and we're up the top for one main search term 'uk coast guide' but still no PR!!

Oh well that will do for now.

Now about my brother-in-laws new tractor.......! (he he)

[williamc]

The fix seems to be rolling across different sites at different times. This may be that they are fixing things on a website by website basis, which would suggest that the "fix" may take a week or so before everyone sees changes.

[janeth]

I wonder if there could be more then one thing causing the problem and is the reason some sites are coming out and others are not?

[janeth]

Originally Posted by williamc

The fix seems to be rolling across different sites at different times. This may be that they are fixing things on a website by website basis, which would suggest that the "fix" may take a week or so before everyone sees changes.

I can't see them doing one at a time. This would mean that every time a new site was picked up they would have to run the fix on it before it would work.

[Ellio]

Westie: Good news for us - came out of SR about mid-day today (UK). Just about all pages and we're up the top for one main search term 'uk coast guide' but still no PR!!

That really good news for you Westie I just don't know whether its good news for me or not.

I find it hard to imagine Google engineers locating effected sites and then individually fixing them.

If it was a Google **** up then they "Should" be able to apply a general "fix" so why some sites back and not others?

Could it be that pages are re-appearing as they are re-cached on the normal date cycle? Our pages (now homepage) were/are re-cached every 10 days or so and are not due for another few days....

[williamc]

Originally Posted by janeth

I can't see them doing one at a time. This would mean that every time a new site was picked up they would have to run the fix on it before it would work.

I should have explained better. I meant that it looks as if they changed (fixed) it in the algo, but are having to run everything thru the algo to correct it, and doing so on a site by site basis.

Could it be that pages are re-appearing as they are re-cached on the normal date cycle? Our pages (now homepage) were/are re-cached every 10 days or so and are not due for another few days....

This is also a very strong possibility.

[incrediblehelp]

Originally Posted by williamc

This is also a very strong possibility.

Right, but this shouldn't be taking place on the live or most active datacenters. Testing/Algo Updates/Infrastructure stuff like this should be done on a testing server like the one for Big Daddy. The problem here is a lot of people are seeing huge drops in traffic and sales while Google "plays around" with changes on live datacenters. I just wish they would do most of the testing behind the scenes first or at least only effecting a small portion of the public. Then release what they feel is the best changes possible to the public.

This back and forth stuff is for the birds.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by williamc

I should have explained better. I meant that it looks as if they changed (fixed) it in the algo, but are having to run everything thru the algo to correct it, and doing so on a site by site basis.

Ok now I understand. (-:

[SPC2]

Originally Posted by Ellio

Could it be that pages are re-appearing as they are re-cached on the normal date cycle?

I like that. It could well be the case.

[Ellio]

Thanks William, SPC2 & Incrediblehelp,

Any more members that could complete the poll at http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=61634 ?

It would be good to see a sample of about 20 effected sites.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by incrediblehelp

The problem here is a lot of people are seeing huge drops in traffic and sales while Google "plays around" with changes on live datacenters.

There's also a number of people seeing a lot more traffic to their sites and I'm sure are loving all this.

[janeth]

If the problems are like William was saying this would mean that the sites with more links or higher pr would be fixed sooner then lower pr sites?

[Ellio]

Janeth: If the problems are like William was saying this would mean that the sites with more links or higher pr would be fixed sooner then lower pr sites?

Our site is PR6 (PR7 future PR) SO I am not sure this is the case as we are still waiting.

[williamc]

Originally Posted by Ellio

Our site is PR6 (PR7 future PR) SO I am not sure this is the case as we are still waiting.

Anything PR5+ should be crawled daily from what I have seen across the few hundred sites we watch actively. To only see Gbot every 10 days on a PR6 site seems rather odd to me.

[Ellio]

WillamC: Anything PR5+ should be crawled daily from what I have seen across the few hundred sites we watch actively. To only see Gbot every 10 days on a PR6 site seems rather odd to me.

I agree but that is the case.

We have been PR5+ (PR6 now) for over 6 years and when indexed feature VERY highly in the UK financial service sector which is extremely competetive (up to $20 a click in Adwords)

We are a well known internet brand in the UK and used to get indexed every day up until about six months ago.

From this point ite switched to every 10 days.

It may be that other than newsfeeds most pages have static(ish) content as when new content is added it is added to new pages and then the existing pages are archived in the information library.

We use sitemaps and the sitemap gets downloaded every few hours with no errors.

By the way we see Gbot every day with about 50 pages indexed daily out of 450, then a full site index every week(ish).(still are even during this period as the site is fine on default Google)

This does not result in the cached pages being updated daily though.

[janeth]

I guess if the content does not change it does'nt matter how often your crawled.

[Ellio]

Janeth:I guess if the content does not change it does'nt matter how often your crawled.

Yes but regardless of content change the site does get re-cached at least every ten days.

I would be interested in why daily crawls are necessary if daily updates are not scheduled.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by Ellio

I would be interested in why daily crawls are necessary if daily updates are not scheduled.

But the results do change daily and are always being updated.