Is Google like Ike Turner?

[incrediblehelp]

Is Google like Ike Turner?

Seems like Google knew that all the pain that Jagger would cause, before releasing it onto us. They felt bad about this impending dome for some of us so how do you do you try to console someone after you have done the "unspeakable act" of removing them from the Google index? You buy them flowers and candy and say," I am sorry baby" or in Google's case you give them "baby step" tools to help them understand what they may be doing wrong (or right) according to Google new algo.

If in the end this is all just to remove spam from the index then I am for it. It will give all of us real website owners and SEO pursuers better rankings in the long run. Of course remember what happened to Ike Turner and what happened to that wife of his. I think Tina got the best in the end.

Be careful Google...

Posted at JaanKanellis.com as well.

[ADAM Web Design]

My only question is: who is Tina in this case? The average surfer or the webmaster?

(My legs are kinda hairy, so I don't think I could pull the Tina off.)

[incrediblehelp]

Tina is the webmaster/website owner/SEO.

The surfer is the public that "buys the music". The public is also pretty much clueless that all this is happening in the background similar to the Ike and Tina history.

Maybe one day they will make a movie and tell the story of the SEO webmaster.

Titled: "What's SPAM Got To Do With It"

[Brian-Bear]

Look guys it is the same old story vote with your feet and stop pandering to G. G was built on word of mouth by webmasters and now they screw white hat guys. Do you not feel it is time for the white hat brigade to screw G. Stand up and be counted.

[incrediblehelp]

Originally Posted by Brian-Bear

Look guys it is the same old story vote with your feet and stop pandering to G. G was built on word of mouth by webmasters and now they screw white hat guys. Do you not feel it is time for the white hat brigade to screw G. Stand up and be counted.

Pandering? I make a priority to achieve results on search engines that my clients want positions on. If they wanted to appear on www.putmyfinger.co.uk then I would be talking you or about how to get to the top on these forums.

[Brian-Bear]

Sooner or later you will understand people power counts no matter what, look at history. Now I have never used our directory as a promotion tool on WPW and to prove my point I have removed all reference to it in my signature bio etc and it will stay that way. Now you bleat about your clients, well if they come to you, for advice your company/business must have some inside knowledge of the SEO industry. Well no one here at present can come to a logical conclusion on G so why not promote another avenue. Life goes on after the Jokers you know

[ADAM Web Design]

You know, I may have missed something, but you two seem to be arguing from the same side.

The point that both of you are making is that ultimately, the good webmasters will survive after the umpteenth Google update regardless and possibly start singing Private Dancer, no matter how much GoogleIke tries to slap them around and treat them like crap.

And I agree with that.

So can't we all just get aloooooooong?

[Brian-Bear]

The beers are on Adam!

[incrediblehelp]

Your right Adam we are and Brian feel free to promote your engine anyway you see fit. I was just making a point. We are not pandering. We are not running away from Google like scared wife. In the end the interent will still be here long after Google. Google watch your tomfoolery.

[Brian-Bear]

Just one more thought, now correct me if I am wrong here, but would I conclude that the 3 webmasters posting up to now are very frustrated with G and there algo antics. Anyone else?

[incrediblehelp]

Originally Posted by Brian-Bear

Just one more thought, now correct me if I am wrong here, but would I conclude that the 3 webmasters posting up to now are very frustrated with G and there algo antics. Anyone else?

Actually my websites and client websites came through same, if not better, but I am in the biz and I am not devoid of what's happening around me. I see honest webmasters and website owners getting backhanded for no reason right before Christmas and then Google offers them kiss up afterwards with free tools to find out what the heck went wrong.

Does these actions drive you closer or farther away from Google? It is really different for everyone.

[ADAM Web Design]

I wouldn't say "frustrated" as much as "annoyed."

Up until today, I wasn't aware of a setback for any of my clients. And even now, there's only one vs. the over 30 that have stayed the same or gone up when J3 made its debut on the 66.102.9.104 . I'd rather see none at all, but one is "acceptable", especially given that I think I know where the client's specific problem is.

So from an SEO standpoint, not really.

I also think they've done a better job of relevancy overall. Sites that are in the first page are, for the most part, there for legitimate reasons.

My annoyances are twofold:

1) That the datacenters are still, after over a week of alleged deployment, still all over the map in terms of results and the algo that they are operating under.

2) That there still is a large spam influence that, while Google is chipping away at it, still exists and probably won't go away any time soon. This includes some rather obvious keyword stuffing and crosslinking.

So frustrated...nah, not really. I just wish they'd get their act togther, deploy J3, and move on to taking out the spammers.

[khurramali]

SEO is an every changing World.

If someone wants the thing to stay the same, then change your Profession, become an accountant, Get a deskjob.

SEO is R&D, Research and Development.

[ADAM Web Design]

I don't think that's the issue, khurramali. The algos have to change, because people are finding new ways to manipulate the engines all the time.

But Google, as much good as I think they did overall with the Jagger 1/2/3 update, dropped the ball in terms of its rollout and still has issues with both canonical names and spam.

How can you perform R&D on an SE to try and figure out what works and what doesn't when you don't even get the same results or even the same algorithm across the different datacenters? You can't.

[Faglork]

Originally Posted by ADAM Web Design

I wouldn't say "frustrated" as much as "annoyed."

Yep. I am responsible for quite a number of sites. They all follow the same guidelines, which are btw in total accordance with the "google webmaster guidelines".

Some went up, some went down, some stayed. I admit openly: currently I am at a complete loss ... I have NO idea why a specific site went up .. or down ... or stayed. And for the first time I can give no advice since the darn update seems to be still underway and no one has figured out what happened. This IS annoying, indeed. Especially with whining clients phoning all the day "We have dropped again! Now even xxx is above us! Do something!" ... and all I can do is to wait ... and trying to calm them down, while gazillions of black hat SEOs bury them with offers how to bring them up in the SERPs ...

faglork

[kgun]

You have to know the following:
1. Google is made for surfers.
2. For every major update, millions of sites come out of the sandbox.
3. This update seemed to have a special focus on spam.

Google is serious, and their ambition is to be the best and preferred SE for the future. I think they do their best. That Google gives away a tool so that webmasters can improve their sites is good. That is in my view a sign that Google cares about webmasters more than other SE’s. I have read page up and page down about SEO. My conclusion after this update is found in

My one SEO rule:

Write dynamic quality content with simple clean code and good headings.

[TrafficProducer]

This is the way of the future :0

The removal of Spam websites, rubbish and other poor quality sites is an on going thing that most search/directory websites will do more and more.

What is Good, What is rubbish?

The one problem is "One Man's meat is an other Man's poison".

[khurramali]

Originally Posted by TrafficProducer

What is Good, What is rubbish?

Currently it is the Search Engine who decides what is spam and what is not.

In their cleanup process, there is always collateral damage.

Some Good Sites also get Zapped in the process.

But as Kgun says "For every major update, millions of sites come out of the sandbox."

So there is good news after all for someone, if not for you.

[onlinetv]

Originally Posted by kgun

You have to know the following:
1. Google is made for surfers.
.

Stop right here. You are far from reality here my good man. This may have been the case some time long long ago in a distant universe, or some bizarro world, but I would just like to quote my latest article:

"Google is a corporation whose profits derive from selling advertising and placing the advertising in relevant places that advertisers want. Their business is not search, it is advertising sales. Their job is not to deliver relevant returns on search, but to deliver relevant terms for the advertiser to garner interested parties (unaware search users or web site visitors) to his product or website through the artificial injection of advertising on the relevant sites for the advertisers terms. Let me give that to you another way, because you must get this before you can see the wolf in sheep clothing: Google, the corporation, has the business mission to bring relevant customers to advertisers using websites that have content relevant to the advertiser"

In this, the thread is pretty right on in comparing the relationship of Ike, Tina and us idiots that just bought the package Ike put out. As you all know, Google will feed banned sites their advertising, that is their business, I am that proof.

[pemburung]

Khurramali, an old friend of mine, a doctor, once said at a meeting of ER docs on the topic of uncommon diseases, and why they should not just concentrate on the usual:

"The person who is dying of snakebite is unconcerned with the rarity of the event."

[khurramali]

Originally Posted by pemburung

"The person who is dying of snakebite is unconcerned with the rarity of the event."

SEO is becomming more important these days.

And Google has started distributing donuts these days.

To please the crossed webmaster, whose site was dropped, Google Sitemaps and Google Analytics is a breeze of fresh air.

Google is reaching out to you and showing you where you did wrong or where you need to improve.

[ADAM Web Design]

khurramali: I think you missed pemburung's point completely.

Yes, Google has launched a series of tools under the auspices of trying to assist the "white hat SEO webmaster".

And what did they give us?

Google Sitemaps. An XML file that has to be updated so that Google will index your updated or new pages every few days. I can't speak for anyone else, but this isn't an especially big deal to me considering that I was seeing most pages indexed within 1-2 before, during, and after Jagger anyway.

And the tool to figure out which pages on a site are crawlable or not...well, outside of the index and maybe the second level of pages (where most sites have their top keywords), this of marginal use at best. It's not a bad feature, but the impact isn't exactly earth-shattering.

Google Analytics, from what I've seen of it, is basically a co-branded version of Urchin with some additional features.

There really isn't a "reach-out" per se on any more than a token level. I'm not criticizing Google for the effort, because they don't really owe anyone anything. But I will criticize their timing, given the algo change. The resources used to develop and launch these products could well have been used for the algo change in terms of development and rollout.

And maybe...just maybe...if they'd devoted their full energies to the Jagger launches, then there wouldn't be the level of annoyance and frustration there is now.

[TrafficProducer]

This is the best description of Google I've heard.

Thank you!

"Google is a corporation whose profits derive from selling advertising and placing the advertising in relevant places that advertisers want. Their business is not search, it is advertising sales. Their job is not to deliver relevant returns on search, but to deliver relevant terms for the advertiser to garner interested parties (unaware search users or web site visitors) to his product or website through the artificial injection of advertising on the relevant sites for the advertisers terms. Let me give that to you another way, because you must get this before you can see the wolf in sheep clothing: Google, the corporation, has the business mission to bring relevant customers to advertisers using websites that have content relevant to the advertiser"

In this, the thread is pretty right on in comparing the relationship of Ike, Tina and us idiots that just bought the package Ike put out. As you all know, Google will feed banned sites their advertising, that is their business, I am that proof.

[sysop9999]

I still haven't seen analytic tools on adwords.
All I get is this:

Thank you for your interest in Google Analytics!

Google Analytics has experienced extremely strong demand, and as a result, we have temporarily limited the number of new signups as we increase capacity. In the meantime, please submit your name and email address and we will notify you as soon as we are ready to add new accounts. Thank you for your patience.

So my question is: what's in there? is it something usefull other than a few notes about who clicked what and when (I can see that in my logs anyway)?

[onlinetv]

Originally Posted by khurramali

And Google has started distributing donuts these days.

To please the crossed webmaster, whose site was dropped, Google Sitemaps and Google Analytics is a breeze of fresh air.

Google is reaching out to you and showing you where you did wrong or where you need to improve.

You sir, are one of the nicest people I have encountered on the forums. Your kind heart and warm being may not even be able to calculate any tinge of evil that could exist in something like Google. I am very much in awe of your spirit and efforts. Kudos to you.

But I am afraid to tell you that some things in this world are not what they seem, and perhaps it is the discontents like me that will protect you from such things.

I tried to get analytics last night, it is closed. No donut for Rick. But, I admit now I am writing an article on these "donuts" and will show how this is NOT a donut, even though it looks like it. If you really understand the definition of who Google is today and apply it to those donuts you may understand why these "gifts" are merely tools to enhance profits of the corporation. Corporations work under the axiom "No good deed goes unpunished".

That you may benefit through them (donuts) only feeds the frenzy as the more you make, the vastly greater amounts they make. They, like church and government, ask for blind trust as they give you your cut of the pie and take the pie from the advertiser, keeping the transactions secret from everyone. They do this at both ends of the stick, the Webmaster and the advertiser - no one knows who or where they may be putting that stick deeper into, or how bad it may smell - yet. But one thing is certain, never trust a corporation that says, "Trust me".

For you perhaps the age-old adage "Even the holy man watches his bags in the train station" is best suited. Would the world be as you paint it my friend.

[khurramali]

Originally Posted by onlinetv

You sir, are one of the nicest people I have encountered on the forums. Your kind heart and warm being may not even be able to calculate any tinge of evil that could exist in something like Google. I am very much in awe of your spirit and efforts. Kudos to you.

Thanks for the compliment.

Google is giving you a slice of cake and keeping the rest for themselves. thats how corporate america works. You have to learn to work the system. From the inside.

Don't be contented with the icing on the cake. Dig Deeper.

When Google offers something to the world for FREE, the world takes it. (Google Analytics). It was expected that their servers would not be able to handle the load, just like ORKUT, their servers are also down, most of the time, and they have'nt upgraded / improved ORKUT servers yet.

Lets hope they are quick to allocate more resources to Google Analytics, otherwise they seal its fate even before it launches them into space.

[khurramali]

Originally Posted by sysop9999

So my question is: what's in there? is it something usefull other than a few notes about who clicked what and when (I can see that in my logs anyway)?

It is supposted to help their ADWORDS customers track their Campaigns, ROI, Conversion Rate etc.

And becasue its FREE, so Webmasters will start using it, and after seeing the difference what ADWORDS can do for them. They might signup on ADWORDS to get the best out of Google Analytics.

Its like Giving you a piece of Pie for FREE while making you pay for the party.

[khurramali]

Originally Posted by ADAM Web Design

There really isn't a "reach-out" per se on any more than a token level. I'm not criticizing Google for the effort, because they don't really owe anyone anything. But I will criticize their timing, given the algo change. The resources used to develop and launch these products could well have been used for the algo change in terms of development and rollout.

And maybe...just maybe...if they'd devoted their full energies to the Jagger launches, then there wouldn't be the level of annoyance and frustration there is now.

I agree, in their haste to roll out new products and services, they have not spent / allocate the required resources / manpower on their primary business, SEARCH.

Google is First a Search Engine and then rest of the bandwagon.

If they had allocated more time / resources on Jagger, just maybe we would'nt be having this discussion now, would we.

[onlinetv]

[quote="khurramali
I agree, in their haste to roll out new products and services, they have not spent / allocate the required resources / manpower on their primary business, SEARCH. [/quote]

Khurramali, I am very good at understanding the corporations in the United States. In that I will claim an expertise. Search is not a business it is a function. Selling advertising, that is a business. Selling advertising using other peoples content, that is a big business. Selling advertising and telling people how to dress up and fake the crowd by taking a large tithe from both sides in secret(historically the reserve of government and religious cults), that is even bigger business.

Search, that is a function, a verb, an action, it is not a business. A business is a model to make money. If search were their business, I would pay to find a site with content. I would search for the content and pay for the ability to search. That is not the Google business model.

The problem is with perception here. Is Google a couple kids in college with a search engine, or is this a wailing corporate link exchange motor with a huge affiliate program and ppc advertising adventure all rolled into one?

Do you find it funny that Google does not like anyone to be in other affiliate programs, or link exchange programs when that is what they are? The biggest link directory, with built in affiliate programs, ad exchange, PPC and you think they are a search engine? Really? Their business, (business is how you make money) is search?

I read their history, as I said, once long long ago in a distant universe, maybe before it was first sold it was a search engine company looking for a business. It was sold, many times. Something they do not want other website owners to do with their sites. Now Google is owned and run by Wall Street Bankers and headed by German (Prussian) interests (headed by T-Mobile Deutch Telecomm monster conglomerates) I read this on their web site, and the business is advertising, 99 percent. All this on their site in the history section.

But I take great umbrage with anyone trying to perpetuate the fraud that Google's business is search. Googles business is an adverting link exchange business.

[kgun]

1. Assumption
The left side of the SERP page is our foccus. We do not foccus on the right side or the absolute top of the page.

2 Reminder
You have to know the following:
1. Google is made for surfers.
2. For every major update, millions of sites come out of the sandbox.
3. This update seemed to have a special focus on spam.

Google is serious, and their ambition is to be the best and preferred SE for the future. I think they do their best. That Google gives away a tool so that webmasters can improve their sites is good. That is in my view a sign that Google cares about webmasters more than other SE’s. I have read page up and page down about SEO. My conclusion after this update is found in

3. SEO teorem.

Write dynamic quality content with simple clean code and good headings.

Proof: Valid for the future.

[onlinetv]

Wow, sounds like some sermon from the mount there. Do you work for Google or are you what they call an "evangelist" for them?

"Do not pay attention to the man behind the curtain. I the most powerful Google command thee!" Only missing the laser light show! Great stuff. Don’t follow the right hand Luke.

2 Reminder
You have to know the following:
1. Google is made for advertisers.
2. For every major update, millions of sites get a chance to sell for Google. The ones that did not produce will drop.

Google is serious, and their ambition is to be the best and preferred SE to service the advertisers. Since the same bankers own the stock in most media companies, providing the advertising and editorial reviews will be no problem. Providing homogenous content for easy sales is provided by ridged rules for admission to the link exchange and a growing cadre of cultish followers willing to do about anything for a PR or pink donut and a part of the payout.

The webmasters make content, THAT is for the Internet users! Google USES that content to sell its advertising, exchanging links to get people to sites that are clean enough to display said advertising. It is a link exchange company with its own directory and advertising program. Parts of its rules are to keep other link exchange programs and directories from competing creating a monopoly.

If you people look at Google like a living thing, or some person you are badly mistaken. This is not a being, it is a financial entity created for profit, it is not a religion, but it might be a cult when I listen to some here. There was no time Google, once that check was cashed, existed without profit as the motive or business goal of the company. It is history not myth.

[kgun]

I looked at your site http://www.onlinetv.us/

1. Google search box at the top.
2. Google search box at the bottom.
3. Ads by Google at the right edge.
4. Ads by Google at the top.
5. Ads by Google at the left.
6. Get targted ads on your site with Google AdSense.
7. Look at the subpages.
8. Did not look at the other sites.

What did you say? I can not hear what you say, because your actions shout so loud :-)

[onlinetv]

Originally Posted by kgun

I looked at your site http://www.onlinetv.us/

1. Google search box at the top.
2. Google search box at the bottom.
3. Ads by Google at the right edge.
4. Ads by Google at the top.
5. Ads by Google at the left.
6. Get targted ads on your site with Google AdSense.
7. Look at the subpages.
8. Did not look at the other sites.

What did you say? I can not hear what you say, because your actions shout so loud :-)

Reminder
You have to know the following:
1. Google is made for advertisers.

Advertisers want my content, Google will deliver. That is their business. Even if the things I say are not nice. My site is banned you know, or was. And they hand manipulate to make sure my media sites are almost imposible to find with the names.

Advertisers want my content even when it was banned and before I moved it. My site is a google fest, that is the idea isnt it? I never said not to capitalize, my problem is with the fraud. When you are a capitalist machine grinding ads and a link farm, stop standing there making like some princess. Your a fat pig fascist, not some brother; Google is a corporation run by very big bankers for profits in advertising. <that is a period means end of that thought.

I am showing the fraud if you have not seen them all you have to read the tektalk articles (reinclusion stuff engine resutls etc you dont have to click on those beasts). Man I have done a lot. These are part of the fraud articles. It is very clear. The first threads were about these google ads on my banned site and; Gee wasnt it amazing that you are banned but Google still feeds you advertising" Gee, because it is a business, and they have your friendly geeks in the back room (like Matt Cutt) like Wizard of Oz monkeys playing with web owners.

Look at the adds. Google search for money. So you search, if someone clicks on that term, BINGO you are in the bank. WHo KNOWS how much, but you are BINGO. Wait a sec.... I thought that search was for relevant returns! Wait a minute, that search returns ONLY ADVERTISERS! BINGO, Bingo is my name B*I*N*G*O or bingo is my name.

FRAUDS ON YOU! Caveat Emptor and all that?

Last thought for a Sunday night before I send you to my tektalk site to read the stuff someone here has scraped into their blog (found you in a search conquerer) Knowledge is important in life, and one uses it to his advantage.

In two weeks the articles about who owns Google start and your eyes will open, your jaws will drop. Come on, don't I have you thinking just a bit about this? If you break for a second from the holy grail type thing, just to see, using real word definitions, they are not about search as they try to make you believe and expound. My definition is right on.

It is like FREE nights and weekend calling for only $4.95. It is not real. You get nothing free. It is late, I am going to bed, best to you.

ps, no where did I say you cannot, or should not, make dosh from the google fat drippings. Waste not, want not.

[onlinetv]

This is how the corporation looks at itself:

"As a business, Google generates revenue by providing advertisers with the opportunity to deliver measurable, cost-effective online advertising that is relevant to the information displayed on any given page"

This is in their about pages. And their business is? Using other peoples content to inject their business model into. A link farm (directory and searchable Google) with sanitized content (you and me) to inject relevant advertsing (adwords) into those pages others create, with a affiliate program (new google affiliates) and advertising revenue sharing (adsense).

Under their real definition they are trying to force a monopoly by making all sites in their search drop other affiliate programs and not submit themselves to other search directories.

I am writing an article about this, and hope I have it ready before tomorrow. I will be travelling around Europe for some newspapers this week and working for money (for a change) and may not be able to post it.

[kgun]

Under their real definition they are trying to force a monopoly by making all sites in their search drop other affiliate programs and not submit themselves to other search directories.

1. Own experience.
Could only have one search box on my site, if I should have Googl AdSense for search there. I did not like that. That may not be the best for the visitor to my site.

2. Google is far from a monopoly.
And I think they will never be. American authorities are among the best in the world (better that Norwegian) to handle that if Google in 10 or 20 years have come close to a media monopoly.

3. Google as a media company.
What is wrong with Google making money by AdWords and AdSense? Profit maximation is nearly an axiom in economics. A private company not having profit maximation (not by all means) as a goal would get special attention from an economist. Google is responsible to their shareholders, and it is their duty to maximize profit in the short as well as in the long run. The shareholder is the boss on the Ad part of the SERP page. Placement is decided by bidding. Money is important there.

4. Google as a SE.
SEO is (mainly) about getting good position on the (free) SERP's. I think Google is a much more advanced SE today than some years ago. Link brokers and SEO companies may dislike Google today, because it is not so easy to spam Google. And they are (hopefully for me as a surfer) getting better. The surfer is the boss on the SER part of the page. The SEO person that is best on my rule will (ceteris paribus) win in the long run. Good dynamic content and time is important on the SER part of the page.

5. Make your assumptions clear.
Are you commenting on Google as a media company, a SE or both? Then make it clear when you comment on what. Do not mix the roles.

[dvdtvshows1]

Well, I finally got more than one observation in the basic (no goals defined) Google Analytics (11/17-11/20).
The results are interesting in that Google Adwords bills us for most of our traffic but Google Analytics says most of our traffic comes from 'organic' search results and NOT Google AdWords.

I'm just a humble online merchant (running www.dvdTVshows.com ) but it seems to me that there are still some bugs somewhere.

The reports presentation is great. The content is potentially very useful. But I'm not sure how much trust to put in the initial results.

Anybody else seen real data in the Google Analytics reports yet?

[onlinetv]

Obfuscation. That is what you are doing.

Google is not two things.

Google is a corporation.

It does things. The search engine is a Google corporate tool to make money. When I speak of Google it is the corporation and its tools.

You liken it where the SE is it's own being. That is nice since the corporation just got made. The funding, some of it, from stock to investors hit the market; CIA just sold some of their initial options and cleaned out 12million in profits. CIA with google stock, and they have a shared facility with many huge fiber links. Do USA subjects get a tax rebate now?

Google is the trust us company that is a link exchange with a great payout as long as you drop the others. They will get their day in court, mark my words today.

[kgun]

Obfuscation. That is what you are doing.

Google is not two things.

Google is a corporation.

A company of course, with two main functions, to be more precise.

They will get their day in court, mark my words today.

A prediciton valid for most big companies, and not very original.