Is "Jagger" a Major Google Marketing Error?

[jdyndale]

Oh, and I just saw someone here wondering what JV stands for. It's an extremely common and very, very effective marketing thing: Joint Venture. An exclusive affiliate deal of sorts...

[rocky1]

Originally Posted by ADAM Web Design

LMAO!

cz, you are a freakin' GOD. I just googled the guy's name, and I'm cryin'!

For those of you who want to see what a successful entrepreneur this guy is, type in his name without spaces or dashes or anything, then .com (I'm not giving this guy any direct link.)

So how long until we see this guy on our TV sets at 2 AM on Saturday night hawking deep-fried psoriasis-reducing asbestos-filled turkeys with ADD?

This is just too funny for words.

Edit: Never mind, I figured it out. We'll see the turkeys after he writes his next bestseller, "Say Goodbye To Self-Respect and Dignity!"

Had to quote you Adam just so we could tell cz he was God again! LMAO!! Truly interesting site it is... (o;?

[dburdon]

Rocky1,

thanks for the compliment.

Google are only doing what any monopolist with unfettered power would do. Its why in both indigenous versions of the Anglo-Saxon business model, monopolists are regulated. Adam Smith's hidden hand doesn't extend to those that can more or less do as they please.
Absolute power, corrupts absolutely. Google are just one more predictable example.

[aaron2005]

(double post sorry)

[aaron2005]

So when will the government step in and try to seize power? You see what they tried to do to Gates...can Google have this same fate?

[s_clay]

Originally Posted by greeneagle

Hey nipplecharms1;

The algs contain "stop words" and any that have "sexual connotations" are more severely scrutinized"...by the "Central Scruitinizer" (I borrowed that term from Frank Zappa)

Ken

I thought you were Frank Zappa!

[ADAM Web Design]

Originally Posted by aaron2005

So when will the government step in and try to seize power? You see what they tried to do to Gates...can Google have this same fate?

One small problem, Aaron.

Any law the US government would apply to Google would only apply in the US. Outside of the country, Google is only subject to the legislation enforced upon it by the governing jurisdiction. And there's no way in Hell 181 countries (I think that's how many there are) would agree on what to do about Google.

This is one of those issues that the market would have to enforce.

[magic_majax]

I'm only using the serp's for a hobby and in the (vain) hope people might read my writing so it doesn't matter too much to me.

My pages mostly fell off google because I hadn't updated them in about a year - I just stopped caring.

Coincidentally, I was updating them just as news of this update broke. Some updates have recently been spidered and I'm top of my "best" search - 60 mil and first page on a bunch of others.

I still haven't managed to knock amazon.com off of the top spot on one, I'm second and third - maybe once I update the rest of my site?

I didn't really care - all I have riding on this is self-esteem - I trained myself as a web designer and nobody ever gives me jobs so once in a while I'll mess about with the serps just to prove "them" wrong.

I'm always poor.

Good-day!

[maxsun]

We got hit last year with the Google update.

So what did my company do after last year's Google sandboxing?

1) We used to advertise regularly with Adwords. We have since pulled ALL Adwords advertising. Yeah, they got us for more $ last year, but after Xmas we completely pulled them from our Ad budget. Why? We feel Google is doing disreputable things artificially inflating Ad revenue at Xmas. And we don't deal with disreputable companies. If you do, you'll get burned every time. That they're doing it again this year? Well that supports that conclusion. Instead, we turned to more traditional advertising to drive visitors to our websites (trade shows, magazines).

I've read alot of the blogs and everyone says "Google owes us nothing". True. But rule of thumb in the business world. You burn your customers and they'll find someone else. Very, very bad for business Google...

2) We also removed all Adsense ads from our website. It may be coincidence, but our Yahoo & MSN traffic seemed to rise, along with our sales. For instance, Google gets 30 cents for an ad placed on our site and we might get a penny of that--all for losing a potential customer! And who is profiting? Google is making 29 cents and we're making a penny... So we realized we were padding Google's pockets at our own expense!

3) Google is the "Bad Guy" to us now. Everyone here bad-mouths Google--between themselves, to their friends and family. They used to have some pretty fanatical loyalty. When you treat people badly, they talk. Alot.

4) Finally, we almost never use Google to search any more. It's just habit anyway and going to Yahoo is now my habit. And Yahoo is a very decent search engine.

Being sandboxed/delisted by Google is like having a Storefront and the City Commissioners deciding to do construction in front of your store to pad their own pockets.

As a final note, I'd like to support the blogger who felt vindicated that now everyone is starting to see Google's fiascos. That fanatical loyalty was in full force last year when the people who were affected by the update moaned and groaned!

[rocky1]

Thank you brother MaxSun! Do I hear an "Amen" from all you folks getting your asses kicked on Google at the moment?

The only thing that will get Google's attention in this matter, is for everyone to do exactly what Max and company have done here!!! Google has proven repeatedly that they intend adjusting things fourth quarter, I mean they've even adjusted the implementation date of their increased fourth quarter profits so that it now begins at the end of October, not at the end of November. Should be an amazing fourth quarter for them, now that they've gone public! Let's all remember to keep an eye on those fourth quarter profits, and if your local newspaper or TV show makes any noise about how Google stocks are trading, what geniuses they are, and how they've prospered... drag them back here to this thread, and the one last fall, and those the year before. Show them how Google prospers!!!

Promote Yahoo! or MSN, we've all got a website, advertise for the others! No more Google Search boxes, install MSN. Speaking from experience, that one's a damned sight easier to install anyhow! You don't need an API, you don't have to register for anything, the code's much cleaner, a third the size, and it returns beautiful results, right out of the box. Just copy the code and paste it.

Imagine the hit Google would take if 55 - 60 thousand WPW members pasted "We support Yahoo! and MSN, because Google screws the little guy over... annually!" on the front of their website, in <h1> tag. You know what happens there in time... You get results like #9 in this search string. Which leads to this thread at SEO Chat. There are similar results for threads here at WPW, and at Band of Gonzos in search results too folks. Look at the date on that post, it still shows up after 18 months! At one point in time it was #1 in the world for Florida Honey Sales!! It still shows up for a couple dozen querries for Florida honey sales in fact. And, it keeps coming up on Yahoo! too, although it's been edited out of the results several times there.

We're all SEO's or at least know a little about it, we know how to influence search results! If we could get that sort of movement started across the entire SEO Community, all the webmaster and SEO Forums, how long do you think it would take for the world to realize how Google got be #1, how Google got to be billionaires in such short order, how Google treats the little folks at the most important part of their business year. Imagine if everyone placed a page explaining the Google fourth quarter algorithm process in plain English, and how many millions of businesses it affects, what it's impact to business globally truly is, and loaded it for a different industry specific term, to be found in that manner!

The problem is, we all come to our little forums, to pi$$ and moan about how Google is treating us, while they're treating us in that fashion, and no one outside the SEO & Design community knows a damned thing about it unless their 4th. quarter profits are failing as a result of it. As soon as the algorithm is over we all sit back and breathe a sigh of relief, say thank God that's over, I don't think they'll be stupid enough to tarnish their image like that again next year, we really grilled them on the forums... and Google sits back and laughs at our silly asses every year.

As I stated earlier... I don't see these problems on Yahoo, I don't see these problems on MSN, yeah I know they are there, I obviously took a stand agasint one such problem on Yahoo previously; they do hiccup at times too, but not faithfully every year in predictable, profitable fashion! I mean let's get real here folks, the only damn way we as a web community are ever going to fix this, is to all take the approach Max and Company have.

I commend you guys Max! And, I commend you personally for showing everyone here at WPW the light, now lets see if they run with the torch, or lay it down after Google's 4th. quarter profits are over, and things return to normal in the results.

[google junky]

Originally Posted by rocky1

Imagine the hit Google would take if 55 - 60 thousand WPW members pasted "We support Yahoo! and MSN, because Google screws the little guy over... annually!" on the front of their website, in <h1> tag.

That would be great and I loved your post.
A business site doesn't take sides in anything nor post in bold or <h1> tags about anyone or anything. This is bad business. Although I feel a strongly as you do about this. I also realize that my clients must remain neutral to anything except being a business.

Standing on the soap box for a cause that most visitors to their site wouldn't understand anyways.
Most visitors simply are looking for the product or service they were searching for and would rather not be bothered with a site owners personal views.

I still liked your post. It's just not realistic to have happen.

[crankydave]

Originally Posted by google junky

That would be great and I loved your post.
A business site doesn't take sides in anything nor post in bold or <h1> tags about anyone or anything. This is bad business. Although I feel a strongly as you do about this. I also realize that my clients must remain neutral to anything except being a business.

Standing on the soap box for a cause that most visitors to their site wouldn't understand anyways.
Most visitors simply are looking for the product or service they were searching for and would rather not be bothered with a site owners personal views.

I still liked your post. It's just not realistic to have happen.

Agreed.

But like a yellow ribbon to show support of the troops, or a pink ribbon to show support for breast cancer awareness, a small symbol can go a long way. :)

Okay, where's the graphics team?

Dave

[rocky1]

It doesn't have to be big and bold GoogleJunky, just has to be <h1> tag so that the search engines place great importance upon it!

 

<style>

h1 {

font-family: verdana, arial, sans serif;
font-size: 12px
font-weight:normal
  }

</style>

Little bitty letters, have the same impact as big and bold as far as the search engines go!

Doesn't necessarily have to be on a company site either, rants that key certain industry keywords in forum posts as the example offered at SEO Chat in Yahoo's respect, go a long way. I've got a lot of miles out of that post, and somehow every time I see it listed I feel just a little bit vindicated for their complacency! All you have to do is link back to that post on a regular occasion, and it stays pretty solid on the engines.

If you're standing in the bar and some guy walks by and slaps you in the head, you might ignore it once, second time you might let it slide, but about the third time you get up and slap him back.

We as SEO's have that ability, we know how the search engines work, we can manipulate search results just like the search engines manipulate results. The competition loves it when you do this too!!! Google was the first one to blast the SEO Chat post to #1 for Florida Honey Sales when Yahoo was talking about challenging them! Coincidence? Maybe...(o:{

Just food for thought y'all!! How long are we as a community going to keep getting slapped, and sit here and whine about it amongst ourselves?

[maxsun]

I do think we have to give Google the benefit of the doubt and let the Jagger update roll in COMPLETELY before any action is taken, but there are things we could do, and here are a few things I've been mulling about today.

1) If WebProWorld emailed their Webmasters and called for a Google Ban for a short period and EVERY Webmaster on WebProWorld disabled their Adwords and Adsense campaigns for those 2 days or so in the coming month, they might notice an ebb in revenues... If they failed to make their WallStreet revenues? The stock would dive and they'd start looking into why their ad revenues were down--hence attention to our plight.

Invite the Webmasters of other forums to join in. What a media event! And if the common man knew Google was putting small Mom & Pop shops out of business, they'd be outraged (just like we are) and likely move to the other search engines.

2) We could all post a small banner on our websites saying "Yahoo--the Best Search Engine!" or "We support MSN!". In that way we're not bashing Google, we're supporting their competition. Imagine these banners showing in huge numbers across thousands of WebProWorld webmastered websites--don't you think we're going to sway our browsing clients by subliminal suggestion if nothing else!

One person can do nothing but complain (and endure). But as a group, we probably have more power than we think if we're willing to work together and get coordinated.

Those are just some ideas.

Anyone have something else?

[google junky]

rocky1,

Get the domain JaggerUpdateRants.com
Turn it into a forum site and propose to visitors the idea of adding a small logo image on their site to show they don't support google any longer.

Serious or funny ha ha? You decide

Good luck in all you do,
Google Junky

[aaron2005]

Originally Posted by magic_majax

I'm only using the serp's for a hobby and in the (vain) hope people might read my writing so it doesn't matter too much to me.

My pages mostly fell off google because I hadn't updated them in about a year - I just stopped caring.

Coincidentally, I was updating them just as news of this update broke. Some updates have recently been spidered and I'm top of my "best" search - 60 mil and first page on a bunch of others.

I still haven't managed to knock amazon.com off of the top spot on one, I'm second and third - maybe once I update the rest of my site?

I didn't really care - all I have riding on this is self-esteem - I trained myself as a web designer and nobody ever gives me jobs so once in a while I'll mess about with the serps just to prove "them" wrong.

I'm always poor.

Good-day!

And there is a really useful lesson in this, toot toooooot! The site where I sell my craft is a mess and I rarely do anything to it. Jagger1-2, don't matter, it still stays in the #1 position in Google and all the other search engines as well. I am also broke, and this crap is a hobby for me thank God.

My other couple sites are good but young and I have been testing the waters, it seems that there is a speed trap on them. I wrote a bunch of articles and all of them were on page #1 of google until they got PR and it seems so they put cuffs on and stopped me for speeding. I believe if I finish these sites and leave them alone for 6 months I will come back and they will also be at the top of the serps because they are not spam, period!

I think it's time to slow down and calm down again, we all tend to get too eager and want immediate results, you poor guys who are trying to make a living in marketing, man that must suck ass!

Anyhow, good for you magic, I like your style, it appears you have been rewarded for remaining humble and YOU win the famous "Zen Place" award, right nipplegizzile1 fellah? ;)

-Aaron

[incrediblehelp]

Originally Posted by MarcGrobman

Greeneagle -- do you think it is really natural to link between all of your sites?

Yes, why not? Especially if you the owner or designer. Sure it would be best if the topics of the websites were related, but if you own all the websites you shouldn't be punished for it and right now Google and other searches (Yahoo especially) are.

Originally Posted by golferboy

If I were Google, Yahoo, MSN, Ask Jeeves, or any other Search Engine, I would eliminate all of the "organic" listings and show nothing but paid listings!

Now that is funny. Have you looked at pure CPC results? Pure garbage. The search world would be twice as worse in this situation.

Also I see than the thread title is "Is "Jagger" a Major Google Marketing Error?". I am still wondering who this is directed to, because Google will continue to serve the end user without missing beat. The end user doesn't care or cant even tell the difference between these results from the previous. Like I posted in another thread, they might like them even more because of trust factor with larger websites appearing more often. Of course all of us know these results are not better, but that is a separate point.

Originally Posted by maxsun

I've read a lot of the blogs and everyone says "Google owes us nothing". True. But rule of thumb in the business world. You burn your customers and they'll find someone else. Very, very bad for business Google...

Once again I don't know how this is bad for Google if their true users that create the traffic don't know the difference in what happened in this last update? Of course us, the online marketers, are pissed, but it does nothing but "force" us to buy AdWords. Once again another win for Google.

Nipple Charms why doesn't your website work:

http://www.nipplecharms.com/

[magic_majax]

Cheers Aaron :)

I noticed that the number of pages listed is definitely fluctuating. The 60 million page search I mentioned is up to 68 mil now.

Some people who "fell off completely" may simply not have been added yet?

As I understand page rank it gradually builds as the index grows (assuming that you have links) so perhaps as it all straightens out things will fall into place for people relying on PR?

Of all the work I did I'm very happy, some are niche searches of only 108K pages but it's still nice (and unexpected) to be on the first page.

One search I can't find myself at all - I was top of that too for a while but it was 2.7 mil then and now it's 27 million.

I recognise some of the sites being on the first page with my own when it was there. Hopefully I'll bounce back on that when I update some more, but it doesn't really make much difference to my life if I don't.

[kevE]

As you will see I'm new to forums so I apolgise in advance for anything I should know but don't. I've been wading through the posts trying to get a handle on this jagger thing and it just seems that everyone is upset and nobody has any clues as to what is going on. Someone mentioned related pages, the few I had have disappeared. Also I now have a hige number of indexed pages most of which are dynamic. Does this make any sense to anyone?

[greeneagle]

incrediblehelp:

"MarcGrobman wrote:
Greeneagle -- do you think it is really natural to link between all of your sites?


Yes, why not? Especially if you the owner or designer. Sure it would be best if the topics of the websites were related, but if you own all the websites you shouldn't be punished for it and right now Google and other searches (Yahoo especially) are."

First of all we do not link between all sites. None of my clients are linked together. We reciprocally link between my Site and theirs in a very relevant way. We are not being penalized anywhere for that practice. We have never practiced a reciprocal linking scheme of any kind for any of the Sites.

Some web developers think it is a little gosh to reciprocally link to clients, but by linking to them the way I do from a PR4 highly relevant portfolio page they all get spidered & indexed almost immediately. For example the news launched 1 week ago or so was spidered and listed by GOOG, MSN & Yahoo within just a few days.

Ken

[kevE]

As you will see I'm new to forums so I apolgise in advance for anything I should know but don't. I've been wading through the posts trying to get a handle on this jagger thing and it just seems that everyone is upset and nobody has any clues as to what is going on. Someone mentioned related pages, the few I had have disappeared. Also I now have a hige number of indexed pages most of which are dynamic. Does this make any sense to anyone?

[maxsun]

maxsun wrote:

I've read a lot of the blogs and everyone says "Google owes us nothing". True. But rule of thumb in the business world. You burn your customers and they'll find someone else. Very, very bad for business Google...

incrediblehelp wrote:

Once again I don't know how this is bad for Google if their true users that create the traffic don't know the difference in what happened in this last update? Of course us, the online marketers, are pissed, but it does nothing but "force" us to buy AdWords. Once again another win for Google.

Why in the world would you patronize a company that has burned you and go buy more Adwords? Why not take those $ over to Yahoo, MSN, targeted Magazine Ads, Ebay, Trade Shows, etc. Google is NOT the only boat in the ocean!

Google needs US as much as we need them. If they had no one paying for Adwords and no one agreeing to carry their Adsense ads on websites, their revenue would dive. WE PAY THEIR BILLS! We are their revenue stream!

If they miss their revenue goals for the quarter on WallStreet, the stock will plummet (their PE is 80:1 and Yahoo is like 30:1) so it's artifically high anyway. Then EVERYONE will be interested in "what happened to Google".

I truly think Google is on the brink here. If they continue the way they used be, i.e., "Do No Evil", they'll maintain #1, but it they continue doing less than reputable things--they'll lose their #1 status. It's just inevitable.

[DMC_34]

Originally Posted by maxsun

I truly think Google is on the brink here. If they continue the way they used be, i.e., "Do No Evil", they'll maintain #1, but it they continue doing less than reputable things--they'll lose their #1 status. It's just inevitable.

Matrix Revolution - "You are right Smith. You were always right...its inevitable". :)

DMC

[nipplecharms1]

Originally Posted by incrediblehelp

Nipple Charms why doesn't your website work:

http://www.nipplecharms.com/

I saw that is was down for an hour or so this AM. Sorry. My host hardly ever goes down. I did notice my orders and visit counts were down. Try it now. If you like anything, let me know!!! :)

Does anyone prefer Yahoo Small Business Platform?

All my best,

Michael

[nipplecharms1]

Originally Posted by maxsun

Why in the world would you patronize a company that has burned you and go buy more Adwords? Why not take those $ over to Yahoo, MSN, targeted Magazine Ads, Ebay, Trade Shows, etc. Google is NOT the only boat in the ocean!

Maxsum, But Google is the QE2 and the rest are nice little 55 footers. Nothing wrong with a 55ft. boat, but you cannot get a 3,000 people on it.

Yahoozizzle is fine, but when buyers are buying, where do they go? To The "G". That said you still have to go where the buyers are.

I can have the most awesome site and product (IT a la the new E-Bayzizzle commercials) but if no one knows I am there, it does not matter.

We have to find the key. Goozizzle is the gatekeeper. Simple as that. Period. End of discussion.

Ok, its not the end but I wanted to say that. :)

Comments are always encouraged and welcome.

Michael

[crankydave]

Originally Posted by incrediblehelp

Also I see than the thread title is "Is "Jagger" a Major Google Marketing Error?". I am still wondering who this is directed to, because Google will continue to serve the end user without missing beat. The end user doesn't care or cant even tell the difference between these results from the previous. Like I posted in another thread, they might like them even more because of trust factor with larger websites appearing more often. Of course all of us know these results are not better, but that is a separate point.

It makes zero difference whether or not the end user can tell if an update has happened. I've little doubt they can see what we do. All they care about is if they can find what they're looking for. If they cannot, they move elswhere. Early indications from "Dagger1" and "Dagger2" seem to point to "they cannot".

Google serves the end user as well as the webmasters. They need both advertisers and clickers. Without the two, they lose. Failing to provide the most relevent results may cause more businesses to advertise but since the relevancy of the ads is determined by the webmaster they rarely, if ever, meet the relevancy of the organic SERP's. One only has to do a search for "dog poop" or "cat pee" to see. However, the searcher moves elsewhere to find what they're looking for.

Google needs to please both the end user and the webmaster/businesses. Without one or the other, their cash register stops ringing.

Dave

[greeneagle]

nipplecharms1:

"Yahoozizzle is fine, but when buyers are buying, where do they go? To The "G". That said you still have to go where the buyers are."

IMO - This is an extreme misnomer for a lot of on-line wholesalers and retailers.

One of our clients gets the vast majority of their traffic from other Sites, especially leading industry related directories and we are talking 300,000 - 500,000 page views per day here!

Ken

[nipplecharms1]

Originally Posted by greeneagle

nipplecharms1:

IMO - This is an extreme misnomer for a lot of on-line wholesalers and retailers.

One of our clients gets the vast majority of their traffic from other Sites, especially leading industry related directories and we are talking 300,000 - 500,000 page views per day here!

Ken

Well Hell, how do I get that many Ken!!! :) I need to hear.... You promised! <wink>

But seriously, I am not denying that the other sources contribute. They do. And one day, when my site turns a profit... or is looking profitable, I will buy adwords, overture, go to the yahoo platform so I can have XML Feeds for nextag, shipping and all the other portals that will accept feeds from my genre.

Until then, I am beholden to the free searches. It’s a chicken and the egg thing. I have to wait for my eggs to hatch before I can get more eggs.

WOW. Re-reading that analogy made my head hurt. So I will leave it there for someone else to hurt! :)

Michael

[greeneagle]

Michael,

I hope you have:
a well managed mail in list
rotating new product
weekly or monthly mailings w/specials

yadayada right?

Ken

[greeneagle]

In response to another member's post in another thread, I think "faglork" summed up all the "Jagger" discontent very well with his quote:

"You don't get it. What we see are 100%-white-hat, compatible, accessible, built-according-to-google-webmaster-guidelines sites with great content taking a nosedive in the SERPs, while the type of sites you are lamenting about gets top positions. THAT is why so many are complaining."

Ken

[nipplecharms1]

Originally Posted by greeneagle

Michael,

I hope you have:
1) a well managed opt-in mail list
2) rotating new product
3) weekly or monthly mailings w/specials

yadayada right?

Ken

I can answer all 3 with one word.... Freaking NO!

I offer a poll that allows users to get something free. But have not e-mailed from it. I did one e-mailing a year ago and it was not productive.

Rotating product, as much as possible.

E-Mailings with specials? Are you kidding?

I hate myself now.

WAITRESS! WAITRESS!

Michael

[greeneagle]

Michael:

"I hate myself now.

WAITRESS! WAITRESS!"

Maybe the GOOG got so large they forgot that:

Satisfied customers are their best future customer prospects.

Maybe that is just archaic marketing advice, now.

LOL

Ken

[greeneagle]

When searching for “GOOGLE Jagger Update” on GOOGLE, I found a boat load of blogs in top spots. Almost all of them repeat the same advice: “The most important advice in dealing with any type of Jagger is simple; don’t panic.” IMO – It’s almost like they were all cut out of the same mold, or like watching robots march in synchronistic movements out of Dr. “Do-Green’s Little Factory”.

LOL

When you examine what webmasters and the SEO community are saying though…This is major “bad” publicity and much more discontent than I remember from “Florida”. Extreme malcontent is everywhere!

It’s also interesting that the leading blogs seem to be taking a different position than the SEO/SEM/Webmaster communities in general:

http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/...1&page=1&pp=20
http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum30/31688.htm
http://forums.seochat.com/t54938/s.html
http://www.searchguild.com/tpage23541-0.html

But then there is that old marketing adage: "Any publicity is good publicity"...

LOL again

Ken

[maxsun]

WE ARE NOT HELPLESS in the face of Google!

And we CAN take our advertising dollars elsewhere! You might even find a higher ROI if you stretch your imagination and take your Adwords dollars elsewhere. Put your $ where your mouth is!

When we were sandboxed last year we were forced to diversify and while we wouldn't relish another sandbox, it was pretty shocking to find out just how tenuous life can be under Google.

So BEFORE it happens to you, before the Christmas season begins in earnest, take a good hard look at alternatives. That way if you're next...you've got a plan.

[incrediblehelp]

I do not agree with the results of Jagger1 and 2 as much as the rest of you here. I just wish we had more discussion on how and why this update has took place, instead of consistent venting on Google or promises to take our dollars somewhere else in boycott format. The fact is as online marketers we need a combination of performance on all three, Yahoo, MSN and Google. We cant go to our clients and say "hey Google sucks" or " I throw my hands in the air with Google". Lets reverse engineer this somewhat and figure out why Google thinks these results are relevant and good.

The items below have always been important in rankings factors for Google, but I feel these have been elevated highly in this last update:

Less is good
Having a good mix of keywords in your back links is even more important.

Ring-around-the-link
The text around the link has very important in weighting the back link itself. It also seems Google has implemented a "smarter" synonym system to figure out keyword relationships that don't even appear on the page. Almost AI like.

Link age
The over all age of the link(s) to you and as well as the overall age of the page itself is much more important.

Trust in thy pool?
Their has always been some sort of trust factor that seem to be associated with the age of the website, but is their a select pool of websites that Google trusts over mom and pop websites? Would they rather see eBay, Amazon, Walmart appearing in search results?

[ADAM Web Design]

Jaan, normally I'd agree with that logic. Try to figure out what they're doing and optimize accordingly.

My problem isn't that they updated their algo: it's that they did so and proceeded to let in a lot more black-hat sites than they did before. Hence my own personal reason for the boycott: it no longer provides relevant results for a lot of the things I search for personally. And there are a lot of others who feel the same way. Scraper sites, stupid CSS tricks, the extreme cases of keyword stuffing faglork reported, their own inability to distinguish between two domains (something both Ken and I experienced and I still experience)...there are some serious technical issues there.

So how can anyone reverse-engineer to what is obviously a flawed algo, since there is no way to tell if or when they're going to fix it?

[incrediblehelp]

Originally Posted by ADAM Web Design

Jaan, normally I'd agree with that logic. Try to figure out what they're doing and optimize accordingly.

My problem isn't that they updated their algo: it's that they did so and proceeded to let in a lot more black-hat sites than they did before. Hence my own personal reason for the boycott: it no longer provides relevant results for a lot of the things I search for personally. And there are a lot of others who feel the same way. Scraper sites, stupid CSS tricks, the extreme cases of keyword stuffing faglork reported, their own inability to distinguish between two domains (something both Ken and I experienced and I still experience)...there are some serious technical issues there.

So how can anyone reverse-engineer to what is obviously a flawed algo, since there is no way to tell if or when they're going to fix it?

Well after this has all settled down, we must look for reasoning and logic behind this obviously flawed algo. We must try to figure out what happened instead of sitting here and holding our breath until we pass out.