Is "Jagger" a Major Google Marketing Error?

[brucet]

IMO Google doesn't really care about businesses trying to achieve good rankings, or SEO companies trying to do it for them. And to be honest, I can understand why.

The 'natural' listings are supposed to be just that - natural. The SEO community, as well as full-on spammers, are trying to influence what are supposed to be objective and unbiased results. This actually undermines the search engines' proposition to their users. I bet half their development costs are spent trying to nullify what we do. I'm sure they all wish we would just forget they exist, go and do whatever we want with our sites, and leave the rest to them. Consequently, we can't really expect to be treated as their friends!

So unfortunately, whether we knew it or not, we signed up for a battle the moment we got into this stuff.

AFAICS it will only end when personalised search is widely adopted. When individual users exercise significant control of their own results and how they are ranked, optimisation as we know it may become cost-ineffective. No-one will always be at the top of the list, and no-one will always be at the bottom. Then we will all have to either run with the wind, or give up and do something else.

[greeneagle]

Quote:

"Look, this update is a no-brainer. The so-called "update" is a scam and serves two related purposes:

1) It motivates people to buy into their PPC scam.

2) Since the organic SERPs in Google are no longer as relevant, it motivates searchers to click on the PPC ads."

Adam,

These points are precisely why I initiated this discussion. It appears that GOOGLE has pressed paid advertising past the point of valid natural SERP returns in many user's minds, with the Jagger update.

At the same time others are reporting better natural SERPs by YAHOO and MSN. IMO - Once clearly past that line, in the general public's mind (the greatest % of users), they will migrate, yielding diminishing returns. I believe, from what we have seen so far, they are at that door or have already walked through it.

Any further deterioration of natural SERP relevancy will diminish general public usage, resulting in less ad revenue.

I keep hearing the argument that the SEs don't owe anyone "Free Traffic" from natural SERPs, but they do owe the general public good natural SERPs at the risk of losing popularity! They also owe their shareholders top dominion in "Relevant" natural SERPS to maintain top position in the general public's selection of choice.

That argument only holds enough water to stay afloat by popular vote. Granted they may have margin to play with, but any margin they consume in the quest for additional paid advertising at this point may very well turn out to be:

1) "antagonistic" by webmasters, Site and business owners, who have a good deal of influence over clients and ad revenue spent

2) "irrelevant returns" by the general public and subsequent diminishing public selection

3) Potentially "overly aggressive business practices" by law enforcement agencies

4) "stagnated or diminishing profits" for shareholders

5) "succession of already established grounds" to aggressive competitors

6) any combination of the above

Ken

[Lydia]

I remember when taking classes on Personal Finances, one of the basic lessons was "diversify". Don't put all your eggs in one basket... Another lesson was: if your income depends largely on your return on investment, don't allocate much of your funds into investments that pose high risk. If you do, be ready to live with the consequences if something goes sour.

My point is that if you or your clients depend on Internet marketing for their livelihood, think twice before relying too heavily on organic search results. There are so many options out there, which can probably be so much more targeted: (quality) e-mail campaigns, diverse PPC (the search engines are not the only ones offering them), online press releases, referral programs... and if a business takes the time to make their Web site the best that it can be, with time the site will carve its presence online. If the business' owner is smart enough, he/she will do whatever is possible to ensure that this carved online presence will remain.

I have a client whose business is seasonal, budget is low, needs to get results right here, right now, and not 6 months from now. I'm so glad that we didn't allocate huge funds to SEO. PPC gives us control over where we want to appear, what our ad copy says, and when we're receiving traffic. If you run a business, you should have an advertising budget. If you are not ready to spend on advertising, go back to your 9 to 5 job until you have saved enough money to do things right. And by golly, when you're ready to invest those advertising bucks, diversify.

[rocky1]

Originally Posted by greeneagle

These kind of major changes just do not need to occur right in prime season before Christmas, breaking many businesses and livelihoods without warning, real reason and time to react.

IMO - That is just flat "HEARTLESS" and without reason! - This has happened 2 years in a row now!!! Move it to the 1st quarter, instead of the 4th!

If Google Policy "Does No Evil" ... Prove it and move it!!! It just can't go on breaking companies and livelihoods without discernable reason at the most critical time of the year!!!

Ken

Make that 3 years in a row! Florida was November 16, 2003 Ken.

This recent update will at least give the results a chance to recover before Christmas whereas Florida didn't recover until the first week of January 2004. Definitely have to conur with your closing statement that it is heartless and a bad business move on Google's part to do this in the last quarter, however there was also considerable confusion on Google in February 2005, when their data centers didn't agree on results for nearly 6 weeks, so it appears there may be at least 2 major updates annually now.

[Like2Golf]

Although I wouldn't have said this last week when Jagger first hit my site, All I can say is that Jagger is a work in progress. We may be jumping to conclusions, reading a book by it's cover, or whatever you want to call it when evaluating the results of Jagger before it's finished. I liken it to reviewing 2007 model year car, by just looking at the bare chassis.

Until the Jagger update is complete, we really don't know what we have here - just as looking at a bare chassis, it's really difficult to say that it's the next generation Mustang.

[greeneagle]

Rocky1:

"Make that 3 years in a row! Florida was November 16, 2003 Ken."

Thank's Rocky1 - LOL - How soon we forget!

Ken

[greeneagle]

I don't often like to repeat long quotes from previous posts, so I'll just repeat this medium length segment. It's well worth the read from a "Marketing Perspective", again:

Lydia:

"My point is that if you or your clients depend on Internet marketing for their livelihood, think twice before relying too heavily on organic search results. There are so many options out there, which can probably be so much more targeted: (quality) e-mail campaigns, diverse PPC (the search engines are not the only ones offering them), online press releases, referral programs... and if a business takes the time to make their Web site the best that it can be, with time the site will carve its presence online. If the business' owner is smart enough, he/she will do whatever is possible to ensure that this carved online presence will remain."

Ken

[ADAM Web Design]

Originally Posted by greeneagle

Quote:

Adam,

These points are precisely why I initiated this discussion. It appears that GOOGLE has pressed paid advertising past the point of valid natural SERP returns in many user's minds, with the Jagger update.

Ken

Thanks for the compliment, Ken, but those weren't my points. They were DrTandem1's. He'd probably like his credit now. :)

[greeneagle]

Thanks Adam, DrTandem1 does deserve the credit for those quotes, my mistake.

On the other hand, you both have made so many good observations in this thread...

I am not always the best juggler at times (Clients, research, moderating, writing, coding, learning...)...etc,

I meant to post 2x and started posting to you and didn't go back and check the addressee properly before posting.

Here is the comment you made that caught my interest:

The web design/development sector, part II. If your idea was put into place, then the sites that could afford to buy SERP placement would then be able to design their sites pretty much the way that they pleased, with little or no regard to competition.

I thought many of the current threads were "all over this", indicating that we may have already arrived?

LOL

Ken

[rocky1]

Originally Posted by golferboy

If I were Google, Yahoo, MSN, Ask Jeeves, or any other Search Engine, I would eliminate all of the "organic" listings and show nothing but paid listings!

This would take care of the majority of the problems associated with "relevant" search results.

Been tried and it failed miserably! Because... you don't get relevant results, you get whoever has the biggest pocket book!

Originally Posted by golferboy

Spam sites would be totally eliminated unless they were willing to "pay" which they would not because without profits you can't last long without relevant products or information, that people are searching for.

You would also lose all startup businesses that might offer a solid product for less money, but can't afford the advertising budget.

Originally Posted by golferboy

There would be no need for spiders to eat up a gazillion gigabytes of totally useless information that nobody is interested in or will ever see.

If you are not listed in the first two or three pages of a search engine, you might as well be on the last page.

I think that last statement there is exactly what the beef is about.

Originally Posted by golferboy

If you have a commercial website that is selling something, including ad space whether it be individual ads, Google Adsense, or something similar, there is absolutely no reason why you should be listed any higher than someone else who is PAYING NOTHING for the space.

The search engines don't owe you anything, UNLESS YOU HAVE PAID FOR A POSITION!

Correct to a point. The search engines, Google in particular state that their goal is too provide the most relevant results. Thus if they are to provide such their results should include both paid and unpaid results to balance the playing field. Otherwise their results consist only of those that can afford the advertising budget.

Originally Posted by golferboy

If you were fortunate to have a top position, and lost it, which I have, it's tough sh_t! If your "income" is derived from your website, then you have a business and you should operate it as one.

That means that you need to pay for your search engine listings. If you have a good website, a good product, and good customer service, you will be successful, even with the additional cost of paying for your listings on a search engine, which happens to be some of the cheapest targeted advertising availably anywhere on earth.

Not necessarily, you should be able to provide the search engines with a solid site, designed and optimized for the viewer, per the criteria Google sets forth, and manage it as such, and make a respectable presence in the FREE listings used to balance the playing field.

Originally Posted by golferboy

I could go on and on as I get worked up whenever I read these crybaby posts from people who freak out when their "free" or "organic" listings disappear to the sandbox, or the outer edge, for no apparent reason.

More than likely there was no apparent reason that you ranked ahead of other sites which quite likely were more relevant to the search terms involved.

Yes there likely was... These individuals likely spent countless hours learning and applying SEO practices to develop a site that conforms with Google's criteria for free results listing.

Originally Posted by golferboy

The main focus of search engines is to provide a quick listing of relevant web sites that will provide the product or information that a person is searching for.

Most people are willng to pay for that product or information and are comfortable ordering online. If one is able to provide an easy solution to a problem which can be delivered instantly or conveniently, they will be successful...........

.....however there is no free lunch and you shouldn't expect one!

Most people here will probably totally disagree with my opinion as they are looking for a "free ride".

But, if the search listings were 100% paid for you would have the absolute best targeted results available for the searcher, and a fair and level playing field for the internet marketer.

Jim Longnecker
http://www.niche-rich.com

Yes I do disagree your opinion Jim, and again you wouldn't have the best or most relevant results, you would only have those that have an established and rather healthy advertising budget. Period! And, that in itself detracts from relevancy.

Personally I seldom make a dime from my website, don't give a damn if I do. And, therefore I wouldn't pay a nickle to advertise it. I (like many folks in the world that have a site) do feel it's worthy of viewing however, and I've put a great deal of effort into getting it found for what it's about. To expect it to not get beat out by an internal page on a website that includes the keywords I targeted only once on the page, and an Amazon ad for a game including the keyword a couple times on the page simply because they have tens of thousands of links to the main site, is not an unreasonable expectation.

I don't have these problems on Yahoo!, I don't have these problems on MSN, I don't have these problems on any search engine besides Google. I personally don't give a $hit if I have these problems on Google, but I do understand the position this puts many small business owners in, especially at this time of the year, and therefore defend your position on their part.

Although your post is correct in the assumption that one should not put all their eggs in one basket, especially one who's bottom is as unstable as Google's is, your comments were a bit unethical and callous.

[greeneagle]

Rocky1:

"....so it appears there may be at least 2 major updates annually now."

January and July look good to me.

Ken

[nipplecharms1]

Ok, riddle me this batman (and you bat-chicks)…

Is there any empirical data or evidence that people click on “sponsored” sites more or less than the “organic” listings?

Before I stated selling our little jewelry items on this distribution channel called the INTERNET, as a user, I hardly EVER clicked on paid ads. I always went to the “normal” list.

I seldom click today on sponsored sites because if I am really not ready to buy but am just looking for suppliers, for instance, I know some poor schmuck is going to have to pay if I only want to kick the tires. And if go into the organic section, these sites will appear anyway. I never click on a nextagizzle or one of those because they will not have what I want anyway.

Am I the exception or the norm? (I am an exception on many levels…. I like to call them fetishes…. Oh that’s for another discussion.) Does anyone know who clicks where. There must be loads of people clicking the “sponsored” links for Gizizzle would not be trading over $340/share. But does anyone know the percentages.

Just a thought in this discussion.

Comments are encouraged and welcome.

Michael

[greeneagle]

nipplecharms1:

"I seldom click today on sponsored sites because if I am really not ready to buy but am just looking for suppliers, for instance, I know some poor schmuck is going to have to pay if I only want to kick the tires."

I am RIGHT IN LINE with you there! The angle is though; "The more people select paid ads (That are more relevant)... well...

Ken

[rocky1]

Originally Posted by greeneagle

Rocky1:

January and July look good to me.

Ken

Unfortunately there are likely those whose businesses depend on those months Ken... I'm thinking ski resorts,vacation resorts, related products.

IMO - Everyone else seems to manage their search engines without frequent market crippling algorithm updates, so why can't Google operate efficiently without them? Is it truly necessary to do this 2-3 times a year?

[golferboy]

Geez! I don't think so! If someone is operating a "commercial" site why should they expect to have a first page listing on a major search engine for free?

You can't advertise for free on TV, Radio, Newspapers, Magazines, or anyplace else I can think of besides the Internet.

If you are selling a product or a service you expect to be paid and there is no reason why whoever sent you that paying customer shouldn't receive a small cut, as happens in pay per click.

Relying on organic search engine listings to put food on your table or gas in your car is like playing Russian roulette!

Why wouldn't you invest in your businesss by being prominently listed with ppc if your site is converting from the organic listings.

Afraid of making too much money? Or you don't want to share a small percentage with Google?

I still feel that pay per click is the absolute best advertising value available anywhere and it does not take "deep pockets" to run a successful campaign.

A "hobby" or non commercial site is a totally different story.

I just don't get it when people's expectations revolve around something which they have absolutely zero control over.

And no, I do not own any Google stock. I thought it was overpriced for their IPO which apparently it was not! :-)

However I have found that my return on investment from utilizing Google Adwords has produced phenominal returns, thousands of times better than their stock has done in the past year!

Rather than bitch and moan, maybe test a campaign and see what happens. You may just find it to be the best investment you ever made in your business.

Jim Longnecker
http://www.niche-rich.com

[rocky1]

Originally Posted by nipplecharms1

Ok, riddle me this batman (and you bat-chicks)...

... I seldom click today on sponsored sites because if I am really not ready to buy but am just looking for suppliers, for instance, I know some poor schmuck is going to have to pay if I only want to kick the tires. And if go into the organic section, these sites will appear anyway. I never click on a nextagizzle or one of those because they will not have what I want anyway...

Michael

Maybe we all should! Let's all get together and go click on golferboy's ad about a dozen times each, all 50,000+ WPW members, and see if he still thinks PPC is a cool idea?! (o;?

Personally, I seldom click on a paid ad, because I know that those people have added the advertising costs of all those PPC clicks that didn't buy anything into the cost of the product I'm looking for.

[greeneagle]

Rocky1:

"Unfortunately there are likely those whose businesses depend on those months Ken... I'm thinking ski resorts,vacation resorts, related products."

You know, you may have really hit on something here:

GOOGLE is an International Company! - Why would they favor anyone's holidays or seasons?, ..unless they are able to do that multidimensionally.. different cultures, countries, locally, regionally geographically...?

I can't even imagine their diverse "demographic logic bins"!

Am I giving out credit to an extremely mature and intelligent company too freely?

Maybe there is more cross-communication between our Intelligence Agencies and GOOG than we know! They do like sharing employees from time to time.

Ken

[rocky1]

Originally Posted by golferboy

Geez! I don't think so! If someone is operating a "commercial" site why should they expect to have a first page listing on a major search engine for free?

You can't advertise for free on TV, Radio, Newspapers, Magazines, or anyplace else I can think of besides the Internet.

If you are selling a product or a service you expect to be paid and there is no reason why whoever sent you that paying customer shouldn't receive a small cut, as happens in pay per click.

Relying on organic search engine listings to put food on your table or gas in your car is like playing Russian roulette!

Why wouldn't you invest in your businesss by being prominently listed with ppc if your site is converting from the organic listings.

Afraid of making too much money? Or you don't want to share a small percentage with Google?

I still feel that pay per click is the absolute best advertising value available anywhere and it does not take "deep pockets" to run a successful campaign.

A "hobby" or non commercial site is a totally different story.

I just don't get it when people's expectations revolve around something which they have absolutely zero control over.

And no, I do not own any Google stock. I thought it was overpriced for their IPO which apparently it was not! :-)

However I have found that my return on investment from utilizing Google Adwords has produced phenominal returns, thousands of times better than their stock has done in the past year!

Rather than bitch and moan, maybe test a campaign and see what happens. You may just find it to be the best investment you ever made in your business.

Jim Longnecker
http://www.niche-rich.com

I don't altogether disagree with your point Jim, but, if Google is going to suggest that they present relevant free results, the viewing public should expect such. They shouldn't have irrelevant paid advertising snuck into results, they shouldn't have corporate sites outranking the little guy just because they can afford the advertising budget. They should have a balanced relevant search result.

Furthermore, if an advertising campaign by a small start up business is built on that premise, and it remains reasonably stable for over two years, they should be able to count on it not failing at the most important time of the year, just because some bonehead in R&D wants to play God!

[rocky1]

Originally Posted by greeneagle

Rocky1:

You know, you may have really hit on something here:

GOOGLE is an International Company! - Why would they favor anyone's holidays or seasons?, ..unless they are able to do that multidimensionally.. different cultures, countries, locally, regionally geographically...?

I can't even imagine their diverse "demographic logic bins"!

Am I giving out credit to an extremely mature and intelligent company too freely?

Maybe there is more cross-communication between our Intelligence Agencies and GOOG than we know! They do like sharing employees from time to time.

Ken

Interesting concept isn't it?! Sorta makes you wonder why the ma & pa businesses always get hit hard this time of year. Especially in North America...

Granted there are a few global comments, but most of the complaints are here in the US, where on-line shopping is more prevalent, and where Christmas is highly commercialized, and where the Christmas shopping season is just really kicking off!

Hmmmm.......

[greeneagle]

I still have to stand by the view that we (not only we, but the general public) has to start selecting, paid or "premium" links before that can happen... and more and more are starting to take the view that "this world" just isn't delving up the answers I want, or that it is becoming overly commercial.

I personally work for myself, like a great number or web developers, webmasters, SEO'rs and SEM'rs and don't like feeling like a slave to another entity... That is why I went out on my own and what drives most of the business owners in the US. We want independence and we have a great deal of influence on the markets. That is after all, the essence of the "American Spirit". Small business drives the majority of American Business, not the gov's, not the org's or the "conglomerates"!

Encroaching that basic instinct, especially in the US and Australia doesn't fly.

How's that for a rant?

Ken

[golferboy]

[quote="rocky1"]

Originally Posted by nipplecharms1

Ok, riddle me this batman (and you bat-chicks)...

Maybe we all should! Let's all get together and go click on golferboy's ad about a dozen times each, all 50,000+ WPW members, and see if he still thinks PPC is a cool idea?! (o;?

And if 1% covert I'll make some money. If 2% convert I'm Rich!

If you're just promoting click fraud, shame on you!

Just checked my Adwords account, luckily haven't had 50,000 WPW members click on my ads! Only 29 so far today, cost $5.90 sales $49.90

Works for me!

Jim Longnecker
http://www.niche-rich.com

[rocky1]

_______________________________

Click Fraud?? Who Me??? (o;?
_______________________________

[ADAM Web Design]

Originally Posted by greeneagle

Thanks Adam, DrTandem1 does deserve the credit for those quotes, my mistake.

On the other hand, you both have made so many good observations in this thread...

I am not always the best juggler at times (Clients, research, moderating, writing, coding, learning...)...etc,

I meant to post 2x and started posting to you and didn't go back and check the addressee properly before posting.

Here is the comment you made that caught my interest:

I thought many of the current threads were "all over this", indicating that we may have already arrived?

LOL

Ken

heh I've read a few of those threads myself. :)

I don't think we're QUITE there yet, but we're slowly approaching that point. And if we as designers aren't aware of the potential ramifications associated with the reaching of that apex, then there will be a shift in our industry so drastic that I think we'll lose sight of the big picture: our customers.

And no harm, no foul. I figured it was better me pointing it out with no bad blood and all that.

[greeneagle]

I am not a big fan of cross threading, but this question posed by aaron2005 deserves consideration - IMO, and it seems that it might be relevant to this thread:

http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=54884

Ken

[ADAM Web Design]

[quote="golferboy"]

Originally Posted by rocky1

And if 1% covert I'll make some money. If 2% convert I'm Rich!

If you're just promoting click fraud, shame on you!

Just checked my Adwords account, luckily haven't had 50,000 WPW members click on my ads! Only 29 so far today, cost $5.90 sales $49.90

Works for me!

Jim Longnecker
http://www.niche-rich.com

Normally, I don't bring other people's work into a discussion because I find it's a copout. When someone can't possibly counterargue the other person's point, they quite often resort to trying to lower the credibility of the person making the comment by attacking their work.

But in this case, the work in question ties directly into the comments made. Having looked briefly at Mr. Longnecker's site, I just realized why he's taking the stance he's taking: he happens to be one of the scamlords that are slowly engraining themselves into Google (and eventually, MSN and Yahoo!)

You guys out there should take a look at his site and what he's "selling". It's the website equivalent to a Don Lapre ad. And the logic behind a PPC engine as opposed to an organic one is a perfect fit for his "business" (and I use that term loosely); if Suzy Homemaker who has the same site can get into the engines with a similar concept for "free", that lowers Jim's chances at success.

[rocky1]

I was biting my tongue, and reserving comment Adam!!

[ADAM Web Design]

Awwwwwww c'mon Rocky. Let loose. It'll be fun! :)

[dburdon]

It seems to me that people are getting hot and bothered.

Could we all calm down and take a more rational look at the situation.

1. Google has grown to be a major force on the Internet.
2. It has done so because it occupied and developed the dominant position within the search category.
3. It has done a wonderful job for 5 or so years by focusing on relevancy, breadth and speed.
4. Now its a grown up organisation it needs revenue to satisfy the initial backers and the poor souls that currently own its stock.
5. Google owes nobody a living. It provided much of what it did for free during its formative years. Now it wants to cash-in.
6. Adwords (and its related products) is the only way it can make real money. Too many other online categories are already occupied by entrenched market players.
7. A natural tension exists between organic and paid search. Its just like advertising and editorial in a newspaper or advertising and programming with TV. Too many paid ads and Google loses its raison d'etre. Not enough and the revenus targets are missed.
8. Google will push the limits of paid search as far as possible and may occasionally overstep the equilibrium with organic results. This is much like when newspapers and TV get out of line with promotions and sponsorship.
9. Unlike newspapers and TV, the internet, generally, and search in particular, are only lightly regulated. A newspaper or TV corporation the size of Google would be subjec to much greater scrutiny - not least by its peers.
10. We, in the SEO community, will only achieve any leverage over Google (or MSN or Yahoo) by:

A. Voting with our budgets. Stop spending on Google Adwords - by diverting funds elsewhere - if you really want to make a point.
B. Convincing the investment community that Google is on the slide from its previously unassailable position.

[nipplecharms1]

Hey guys, calm down.

I read these posts and it looks like I am advocating click fraud.

I AM NOT ADVOCATING CLICK FRAUD. Stop piecing together bits and pieces of other comments under my name.

Damn, this must be how Bill O'Rielly feels on a bad day!!!! :) :) :) :)

I love this place.

M

[KeithO]

1st off, Bill O'Reilly sucks.

2nd, I personally have had none of my 30+ clients have drastic drops in their rankings as of today. If anything, the bulk have risen. I think everyone that was freaking out last week and checking their rankings needs to go outside and enjoy the weather for a few days before checking things again. We all know things are extremely volatile and unstable during these updates.

[rocky1]

I perceive it as pointless Adam... Otherwise I might be inclined! /o:?

Not the least bit hot and bothered on my end guys!! And, I do still respect Jim's point, because I know others that have indicated exactly that, in very real business situations.

They have also pointed out however, that although PPC campaigns are an important part of their business, they cut into their profit margin considerably, and these are established businesses. Someone just starting out couldn't afford what they are paying, they don't have that kind of advertising budget.

I agree totally dburdon! Very well stated.

[greeneagle]

Hey nipplecharms1;

It's people like you that make me need to go the ICRA (Internet Content Rating Association) and make sure that the SE's understand "Logically" that my Oil & Gas Industry Well Completions Client (Oil & Gas Well Completions: that offers "Landing Nipples" passes the "Content Rating Test" and doesn't get delimited in the "sexual connotations" alg!!!

For anyone that doesn't know:

The algs contain "stop words" and any that have "sexual connotations" are more severely scrutinized"...by the "Central Scruitinizer" (I borrowed that term from Frank Zappa)

LOL - The ICRA issues a special metatag that the SEs like in this instance, clearing your Site for "General Audiences". It's a good idea... I think it even gives an advantage for sites down those more "risqué" alleys.

SE Logic Bins are just that... very specific repositories. Don't cut them short!

Who knows what's really important these days?

Ken

[nipplecharms1]

Originally Posted by greeneagle

Hey nipplecharms1;

It's people like you that make me need to go the ICRA ( Internet Content Rating Association) and make sure that the SE's understand "Logically" that my Oil & Gas Industry Well Completions Client (Oil & Gas Well Completions: that offers "Landing Nipples" passes the "Content Rating Test" and doesn't get delimited in the "sexual connotations" alg!!!

For anyone that doesn't know:

The algs contain "stop words" and any that have "sexual connotations" are more severely scrutinized"...by the "Central Scruitinizer" (I borrowed that term from Frank Zappa)

LOL - The ICRA issues a special metatag that the SEs like in this instance, clearing your Site for "General Audiences". It's a good idea... I think it even gives an advantage for sites down those more "risqué" alleys.

SE Logic Bins are just that... very specific repositories. Don't cut them short!

Ken

Ken, I love you baby....

What the HELL did you just say??????? (LMAO with you and not AT you!)

And when you mentioned Frank... I thought you meant Mr. Sinatra!

I don't think we want a Meta tag that states we are a "clean" site; we are not, per se. Although we have little or no nudity anymore, I do not want a 6th grader visiting my site for ANY reason.

Or am I just obtuse?

Michael

[golferboy]

Actually the site listed in my signature is one of 50+ sites of mine.

Most of my sites are in the health area and I have written a number of books in different areas, from deep frying turkeys, solutions to different health disorders, to internet marketing.

I wrote Niche Rich - The Perfect Business because I had a lot of people asking and wondering how I was able to work a few hours a day and make hundreds to thousands of dollars a day, from the comfort of my home.

So I wrote a book directed towards the internet novice that starts at the beginning and takes you all the way through the process of making money online, which is not as easy as it looks!

And while I have used ppc for the Niche Rich book I don't now as the field is too competitive and pricey. I rely primarily on JV's for that product as that marketing method has proved to be more profitable.

I do use ppc's for my health related sites and others and rely on the steady traffic and income that is generated.

I don't have to worry about putting gas in the Lexus, the Z-28, the 34' Houseboat, or the WaveRunner.

By controlling my advertising I'm able to generate a very nice income and I don't lose any sleep at night worrying about Google, Yahoo, or MSN messing with their organic listings and killing my business.

It works for me and it will work for you!

Jim Longnecker
http://www.niche-rich.com

[greeneagle]

nipple,

I thought you would get a "charge" out of that - but it might just help place you too!

They do have those rankings that separate you from the "abject porn" !

What is SEO these days?

LMAO - with you!

Maybe there is a matrices of "Logic Bins"... Wouldn't that just be "novel"?

LMAO again!

Ken

[nipplecharms1]

Originally Posted by KeithO

1st off, Bill O'Reilly sucks.

2nd, I personally have had none of my 30+ clients have drastic drops in their rankings as of today. If anything, the bulk have risen. I think everyone that was freaking out last week and checking their rankings needs to go outside and enjoy the weather for a few days before checking things again. We all know things are extremely volatile and unstable during these updates.

Bill O’Rielly is a genius in everyday-man's clothing. But again, I am off subject! :)

You are right Keith when you say we have to step back, find our Zen place and have a triple mocha latte fat! Ok, you didn't say it quite that way but mine sounds funnier.

I have come around to your thinking. I look, ponder, read, spew, re-read, re-check and at the end of the day say.. What the hey! Its only money.

I look at the kids and everything seems to make sense.

Thanks Kevin, truly, for pointing it out.

Michael

[nipplecharms1]

Originally Posted by greeneagle

nipple,

I thought you would get a "charge" out of that - but it might just help place you too!

They do have those rankings that separate you from the "abject porn" !

What is SEO these days?

LMAO - with you!

Maybe there is a matrices of "Logic Bins"... Wouldn't that just be "novel"?

LMAO again!

Ken

Dear Ken,

I did enjoy what my limits could make out of it and inferred the rest. Again, I am the true novice when it comes to all this. :)

lets chat offline about your suggestions. I am open to most any thoughts on site optimization.

Nipple Shields is another example. I feel for the people selling those for baby's etc and have to contend with sites like mine. You gotta love capitalism.

Thanks

Michael

[KeithO]

Originally Posted by nipplecharms1

Bill O’Rielly is a genius in everyday-man's clothing. But again, I am off subject! :)

bah, he spits out nothing original and doesn't ensure balanced debates, but i digress.

Originally Posted by nipplecharms1

You are right Keith when you say we have to step back, find our Zen place and have a triple mocha latte fat! Ok, you didn't say it quite that way but mine sounds funnier.

I have come around to your thinking. I look, ponder, read, spew, re-read, re-check and at the end of the day say.. What the hey! Its only money.

I look at the kids and everything seems to make sense.

Thanks Kevin, truly, for pointing it out.

Michael

I could have made a Fight Club reference and talked about a cave and pengiun too.

[greeneagle]

Michael,

See my PM.

But, let's get back on topic here..

How has the separation of the word "nipple" affected you in you natural SERPs?

Has it forced you to deploy PPC campaigns?

Certain "Stop Words" or certain "Advertising Words"... Are they separate subsets?

Probably, but where and how do they split up into those "Logic Bins"?

Ken

[ADAM Web Design]

Originally Posted by golferboy

Actually the site listed in my signature is one of 50+ sites of mine.

Most of my sites are in the health area and I have written a number of books in different areas, from deep frying turkeys, solutions to different health disorders, to internet marketing.

I wrote Niche Rich - The Perfect Business because I had a lot of people asking and wondering how I was able to work a few hours a day and make hundreds to thousands of dollars a day, from the comfort of my home.

So I wrote a book directed towards the internet novice that starts at the beginning and takes you all the way through the process of making money online, which is not as easy as it looks!

And while I have used ppc for the Niche Rich book I don't now as the field is too competitive and pricey. I rely primarily on JV's for that product as that marketing method has proved to be more profitable.

I do use ppc's for my health related sites and others and rely on the steady traffic and income that is generated.

I don't have to worry about putting gas in the Lexus, the Z-28, the 34' Houseboat, or the WaveRunner.

By controlling my advertising I'm able to generate a very nice income and I don't lose any sleep at night worrying about Google, Yahoo, or MSN messing with their organic listings and killing my business.

It works for me and it will work for you!

Jim Longnecker
http://www.niche-rich.com

Uhhhhhhhhhhh huh. And that intentionally vague explanation of the things you do, which is shockingly similar to the intentionally vague explanations of Mr. Lapre, is supposed to make you legitimate how again?

You get an "E" for Effort.

Rocky, feel free to unreserve your judgement now. I'd personally love to see you give this guy the janeth treatment. :)

[rocky1]

ROFLOL!!!

[nipplecharms1]

Originally Posted by greeneagle

Michael,

How has the separation of the word "nipple" affected you in you natural SERPs?

Has it forced you to deploy PPC campaigns?

Certain "Stop Words" or certain "Advertising Words"... Are they separate subsets?

Probably, but where and how do they split up into those "Logic Bins"?

Ken

First Keith... The more obscure the better. I love the fight club!

Ken,

Got it thanks and responded.

For "nipple" I am 24 on googlizzle. I would prefer 204 or 2400. People that search on that term, especially in the afternoon, are not my customers. I am >50 on Yahoozizzle and 9 on MSNsky.

I have never used PPC, ever.
A) I don’t understand it. I do conceptually, but not practically.
B) I have looked at Overture and some of the Key words and phrases... no way I am spending a buck per click. On an average ticket, I would have to see how they could make any money.

I am better with phrases, "nipple jewelry" I am much better on today than I was yesterday. Or the day before, or before the Mick thing. But if it ain't over, who knows where I land.

All that said, its kewl to watch... until I start yelling at everyone here or at home cause I dropped 10 positions (or more) on other terms.

My competition all use Adwords and Overture. I see their ads. I cannot wrap my small mind around it to make it work.

And the beat goes on!

Michael

[nipplecharms1]

Originally Posted by ADAM Web Design

Uhhhhhhhhhhh huh. And that intentionally vague explanation of the things you do, which is shockingly similar to the intentionally vague explanations of Mr. Lapre, is supposed to make you legitimate how again?

Can I assume "JV" does not mean Junior Varsity here?

And hey Adam, I am still placing ads in the newspapers.... All the Gannett papers too. LOL

I gotta stop this! Its way too addicting.

M

[ADAM Web Design]

I'm not sure what JV means either. It's not an abbreviation I'm familiar with, although I'm sure our fridges-in-Alaska-to-Eskimos friend will enlighten us.

[cz]

If you "google" golferboy's name you will see that whatever he's hocking, he's very diverse and must have been a very busy guy at least for awhile before he embarked on making an annual salary per day on his stuff. I tried "who is Jim Longdecker"

...write health and nutrition books....for fat customers that bought his "deep fry" too many turkeys e-book! He gets 'em coming and going! More power to you Jim. Go get 'em!

[greeneagle]

Someone call Phizer, we need a drug for "consternation"!

LOL

Ken

[aaron2005]

HA!!!

No

Comment

;-)

[ADAM Web Design]

LMAO!

cz, you are a freakin' GOD. I just googled the guy's name, and I'm cryin'!

For those of you who want to see what a successful entrepreneur this guy is, type in his name without spaces or dashes or anything, then .com (I'm not giving this guy any direct link.)

So how long until we see this guy on our TV sets at 2 AM on Saturday night hawking deep-fried psoriasis-reducing asbestos-filled turkeys with ADD?

This is just too funny for words.

Edit: Never mind, I figured it out. We'll see the turkeys after he writes his next bestseller, "Say Goodbye To Self-Respect and Dignity!"

[Lydia]

Ken (greeneagle)

Thanks for quoting my post in the previous page. I take that as a compliment. I'm glad you found it worthy!

Greetings,

Lydia

[jdyndale]

Um... I must admit I haven't had the time to read this entire thread yet - so this might have been mentioned before. Anyway...

It's simply a terrible business strategy to put all your eggs in one basket and rely solely on organic search engine traffic.

You need to get a good amount of quality incoming links (not all reciprocal), not just for the PR but for the traffic as well. You need to place banner ads and otehr kinds of ads in relevant places wherever you can find them. You need to utilize PPC search engines effectively. You need to write articles and get them published and spread on the web. Etc. etc. etc. That's the only way to safe-guard yourself against situations such as this.

Not to mention the fact that you'll be getting a LOT more traffic by doing all this. Sure, it's a lot of WORK - but that's a big part of doing business, whether it's on the 'net or in "the real world".

Don't get me wrong - I feel for those of you who are suffering financially because of this Google update. However, I must be honest and say that you have only yourselves to blame. The ONLY responsibility Google has is to provide as good a product as possible in order to generate as much profits as possible for its shareholders. That's the tough and cold truth. Its product is relevant search results and ads as relevant to those search results as possible.

No one can know what Google's strategy is this time around, and there are many strange things happening at the moment - but we'll just have to wait 'till the dust settles before judging whether this latest update has improved the quality of their product. There may be many stages of the update that 'cause very strange things to happen, but which are necessary in order to eventually reach a better result.

During this update so far MSN has plummeted to a PR of 2 for a short time, someone told me their web site which only has one single blank page (really completely empty) suddenly had a PR of 5 etc. Strange and very confusing, yes. But it just might be necessary to gather the data needed to improve their algorithm - or something.

We'll just have to wait and see...