Is Google penalising you for running Adwords?

[ditto]

Hi All,

Could it be that Google is holding back on giving your site a decent organic ranking because they don't want to loose your Adwords revenue?

I was speaking to another developer friend of mine recently and she's convinced that this is the case.

I rejected it out of hand, I trust Google and I don't believe they would play dirty like this.....

but I set up a new site back in October and got it listed at number 1 a while ago for a number of keyphrases across Yahoo, MSN, Lycos, BBC etc and in the top ten for a number of other phrases, but it still shows nowhere in Google, even though I have PR5's right through the site. I know there's the so called 'sandbox' effect, but come on, one half decent phrase listing is that to much to ask.

This leads on to the question of Googles' result relevancy, but that's another post.

I used Adwords from the start but I only use them now intermitently. My ad shows across the top whenever I switch the ads back on, be it for a few hours on one day of the week. So Google likes my ads.

Thoughts anyone?

[brian.mark]

For most of of top producing phrases, we have the top organic listing and the top paid listing. We mostly keep the top paid listing to keep our competitors down below us for either one (since some people prefer the paid listings and others only click organic).

If we were being penalized, then we must almost be unbeatable without it... and our SEO isn't anything THAT spectacular.

Brian.

[ditto]

In that case then there's hope that once I come out of the 'sandbox' there'll be a decent ranking waiting for me.

If you don't mind me asking how old's the site you mention?

[brian.mark]

I guess we're sort of old in web years. One site in '98 and the other in '01. We've been using AdWords for about 2 years while working on rankings for the terms (climbing up to 1st page about a year ago). We've really only done SEO for the past 14 months or so.

Brian.

[ditto]

I guess we're sort of old in web years. One site in '98 and the other in '01.

Not that old try '94. :)
Although if I'm honest I had no sites until '99.

So essentially your sites went live before the 'sandbox' came in to effect.

When it comes to the sandbox, how can Google be returning the most relevant results when perfectly ordinary new sites, none TE or Adsense 'banks' ;), don't get listed for what could be a year.

1.3million new sites went live in April, it's usually around the 1.2 million mark per month. So if we do a little math, I have a site in the Sandbox that went live in October... 7/12 months x 1.2M (average) that's 9 million other sites along with mine that are not ranked.

If it really is as long as a year in the sandbox, doesn't that make Google a year out of date and behind by 15 million sites!!!

I understand the reasoning for the sandbox. I remember the spam site explosion last year when all their results went to pot. But there must be a better way.

They're not doing themselves any favours, Yahoo is gaining, neither are they doing site owners any favours, not by a longway.

Grrr :)

If I have to use Adwords for a year to get any traffic from Google then surely that's wrong?

[DMC_34]

Absolutely NOT!

I have many #1 organics where I am #1 on Adwords in the Bonus

Look at

Business Greeting Cards

Business Thank You Cards

The list goes on and on. Does not hurt at all and may even help from getting some generic IBL's from SERP scrapers

[cbp]

This topic comes up periodically.

Participation in Adsense or Adwords has no impact on the organic rankings.

Google have said that (why would they lie?). The consensus of opinions of most (?almost everyone) is that they have no impact.

There are a few conspiracy theorists who believe they do impact .... I seem to remember a couple that we have banned from WPW because of their aggressive name calling and bad behaviour when no amount of intelligient rationale would convince them otherwise.

I have sites that I use Adwords, that have gone up and down in the rankings.
I have sites that I use Adsense, that have gone up and down in the rankings.
I have sites that use neither that have gone up and down in the rankings.

Does anyone remember that thread in which we discussed what breakfast ceral I had on different days and the impact that had on rankings? ..... that thread started of as the impact of Adwords on rankings .... :-) ....

CBP

[ditto]

I think the more you delve in to this the more you realise what a fine line Google are actually treading. Their innovations sometimes step off that line, witness autolink, but they're on the cutting edge, in uncharted territory, so you have to give them some leeway I believe.

Whenever I see news about them being sued by yet another copyright evangelist I'm on Googles side. After all I believe all they're trying to do is provide the most comprehensive and best search engine results or that's what their mission statement says or at least it would if they had one.

But they can't possibly be providing the 'most comprehensive and best search results' can they, with the sandbox in effect as I mentioned. Yahoo and MSN search listings are in constant flux. Google results in my experience are much more static over the long-term. Ever since the Florida update anyway and even more so since the spammy website explosion in their listings early last year.

I guess what this boils down to is customer satisfaction. If I, as a customer, visiting a search engine that purely displays results from paying advertisers, how accurate are those results? Especially if I'm not looking to buy anything but find info. If these advertisers are not in it to make some cash then they won't pay to be listed and so the huge number of sites out there that are not out to make a profit are not factored in.

I know this is not 100% how Google works but with the sandbox in effect it looks suspicious. Maybe it's a coincidence, but it's a very nice one for Google.

Then you have the whole question of cost to advertisers. It can be expensive now and we've only scratched the surface, the web is still young in terms of websites out there and people online.

I suppose they are a business and it's a free economy but could it be we're witnessing the first cracks in the immaculate surface of Googles reputation and their slide from prominence, Yahoo are gaining?

[DreamingEagle]

I had one site that started with AdWords, and when it got in the Top 5 in the organic listings I kept paying AdWords every month like alms to the God, wondering if one thing factored into the other. But I dropped the AdWords campaign 4 months ago, and no change in ranking.

[simonm]

try a search for 'milk testing' for an example of top natural and top adwords - (google seems to have automatically uplifted my adwords to a banner, not sure what the trigger is for this)

Simon

[pcalzadilla]

Um, I may be way off. I am quite new to this, but I believe if you have a banner at the top that merely means you are the top "bidder" for that keyword(s). My ads appear at the top for some keywords and on the side bar for others. It's the same ad, nothing different just the price I pay for the clicks varies. Speaking of the price we pay for clicks....
I took a Yahoo web marketing course, one of their tips to get better, high quality leads is having longer keyword phrases...4-5 words. It gets you cheaper keywords and a more qualified search by a consumer...A consumer just researching a topic, at the beginning of their buying cycle may start with "new cars" then try "2005 new cars" then try "2005 GM vehicles" then "2005 Cadillac SUV" then finally "White 2005 Cadillac Escalade with sunroof" by the time they get to that phrase they are at a shorter buying cycle...a more qualified lead. Maybe not best for this topic but I run on tangent's sometimes... This rule can obvioulsy be applied to all B2B B2C keywords. I have seen a much higher click through rate by using this technique. Okay love this site and I look forward to learning alot from you all.

[Haze]

I dont think so. I have clients pending in top 5, both on the sponsored links and in the no cost area.
Try searsh: spanish mortgages, and Im sure you will find www.mortgage4spain.com on both places on .com and co.uk.
Regards Haze