Has the PR update come and gone?

[DMC_34]

If so I missed it, nothing on my new site. Hopefully it hasnt happened yet.

[cbp]

PR updates come and go, possibly as frequently as every two weeks - we just do not get to see it - its kept internal at G

CBP

[DMC_34]

Originally Posted by cbp

PR updates come and go, possibly as frequently as every two weeks - we just do not get to see it - its kept internal at G

CBP

I mean the ToolBar PR Update. I hope not because I still have zero on my new site.

[cbp]

No - I still have several new sites at PR0

CBP

[greeneagle]

Absolutely not. They have been doing some testing though.

Ken

[janeth]

We have a lot of sites we are watching that have not moved yet.

Maybe sometime this week.

[tomzo]

PR updates come and go, possibly as frequently as every two weeks - we just do not get to see it - its kept internal at G

That's not true at all, how can you make that statement.

I use a site to check PR and future PR, which gives the percentage change from the last PR update. This is the best way to tell when the PR comes because it shows my site has gone up by 15%. If PR update had taken place the percentage change would return to 0% change.

[DreamingEagle]

Originally Posted by tomzo

That's not true at all, how can you make that statement.

I use a site to check PR and future PR, which gives the percentage change from the last PR update.

What site is this?

[cbp]

That's not true at all, how can you make that statement.

It is true. GoogleGuy stated this a while back. Other google employees have stated similar at various conferences. Ever wonder why there is usually "shuffle" every few weeks at Google??? Google updates PR internally on a very freqent time frame. Ever wonder why search results never change when PR is updated? ... its because Google have already incorporated the Pr into the results (speculation is that is 2 weeks prior to the update.

The site you are using gives no more frequent PR updates than on the tool bar. The Rustrybrick future PR is not close to being accurate.

This is the best way to tell when the PR comes

- no where near to being close. Even the person behind the tool acknowledges that!!! But I am really lookin forward to the couple of my sites that will going to PR8 and PR9 that the tool predicts .... not

CBP

[JKomp]

It seems to over predict for everyone but me, I used it a while back and it predicted that my site www.JKomp.com will stay at PR1. I hope not.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by tomzo

That's not true at all, how can you make that statement.

I use a site to check PR and future PR, which gives the percentage change from the last PR update. This is the best way to tell when the PR comes because it shows my site has gone up by 15%. If PR update had taken place the percentage change would return to 0% change.

CBP is correct

[Mac 5]

About 6 months ago I had a site with PR4, it has dropped to PR3 but the hits and referals from search engines has dramatically increased. I've read on other forums not to read into PR ranking too much. From my example above I'd agree.

[MathsIsFun]

Well, this Google Forum (http://www.webproworld.com/viewforum.php?f=7) has a smallish PR of 3, but I would say gets LOTS of traffic. Because we all know about it and visit regularly.

(Hmmm ... there must be a moral in there)

[tomzo]

I'm glad Janeth, that you think you are an authority on everything but you and cbp are completely incorrect and shouldn't post on forums.

There is not a PR update every two weeks, in fact there is a site which publishes the dates in which PR updates have taken place. The last one was on the 1st of January.

Fo those people who are not bright enough to understnd what I was saying about Rustybrick, I will make it very simple. I don't use the tool because I believe it is accurate, but because the percentage change indicates whether a PR update has taken place. It hasn't yet.

My time is too precious to be explaining this to people who can't work that out!

[cbp]

My time is too precious to be explaining this to people who can't work that out!

you and cbp are completely incorrect and shouldn't post on forums.

I will type this slowly so you can get it....

You are very confused and wrong. The PR updates you are talking about and dates that are listed on many sites are nothing more than when Google chooses to release publically a version of PR. The last one of these was January 1st (many predicted another on 1 April, but it did not happen)

Google employees have stated that they update and incorporate PR into the search results on a very different time frame and more frequently - it has been suggested this could happen as often as every two weeks internally at google .... they just do not release those PR updates va the toolbar.

When Google do a public release of PR via the toolbar, the search results do not change, as the PR has already been factored in.

Have you noticed that no one has posted in this thread agreeing with you?

CBP

[smo]

I have seen CBP explaining this confusion in many threads here :)

[greeneagle]

Boys and Girls,

Let's get it STRAIGHT! All we have to do here is resolve different "positions":

There are 2 different PR updates! Let's call them: "Public" and "Private".

GOOGLE's "Private" update happens in their Directory very often (approximately monthly by some accounts). It really isn't that "Private" since they have a "Green Bar" to the left of every listing in every category!

The "Public" update is supposed to happen "once a quarter or every 3 months. This is the one that has been the most infamous and is in more public view, because it is the one that shows up in everyone's GOOGLE TOOLBAR. I hope by now that most Site owners and Webmasters know that the "Public" representation of “PageRank” is not anything but representative of the more complex "Private" or "Internal" model.

The "Public" Toolbar representation of PR is not near as exacting as the "Internal" model, which isn't so "Private" after all, because anyone that knows how to find their listing in the GOOGLE Directory can find their more frequently updated, more comprehensively based "Internal" PR at any time!

The "Public" PR (that damn toolbar) representation of the more comprehensive model causes a lot of grief, but herds everyone into the "performance corral". It would be real short-sighted of GOOGLE to toss aside a "Marketing Tool" that has become a "Holy Grail" for the "Unknowing" (General Populus) like that, wouldn't it?

There must have been a million threads on the difference between these 2 distinctly different PageRank representations at WebProWorld and all the other Webmaster and SEO forums out there!

You know what though?
Neither "PageRank" ranking matter too much!
What matters is real-time Marketing Data!
Neither PR representation is "Real-Time".
What you want is a consistent and relevant method of monitoring SERPs and SERP results vs changes made in “REAL TIME”!.

"Public PageRank" is updated 4 times a year.
"Internal (Private PR) is updated about once a month.
SERPs are updated constantly.

Which do you want to base your change results on?

Let's don't get lost in this "Hash" here!

I hope everyone has access to daily and even minute-to-minute server stats, wherever you host yourselves and your clients!

Otherwise you are just wondering around NAKED IN THE DARK”!

Ken

[DMC_34]

Originally Posted by greeneagle

You know what though?
Neither matter too much!
What matters is real-time Marketing Data!
Neither PR representation is "Real-Time".
What you want is a consistent and relevant method of monitoring SERPs and SERP results vs changes in “REAL TIME”!.

True but when a new site has the "goose egg" PR, it becomes VERY difficult to exchange links, since most ignorant people will assume your site is penalized.

[greeneagle]

DMC_34

IMO - Exchanging links is almost a lost cause these days.

Just about time to call it a "Depricated Practice":

Try this instead:

"Generic Link Mining - The Golden Path to "Generic" IBLs"

Ken

[tomzo]

Well said Ken, you are spot on, that is exactly what I was trying to get at. Most balanced people are talking about public PR, what is shown to webmasters.

I know a hell of a lot of webmasters, and not one has told me of an increase or decrease in PR since the 1st of January. If anyone can find evidence of this, please post?

I'm amazed at the stupidity of some people.

Thank god there some decent people out there, rather than a load of know alls who put down other peoples views, without being bright enough to realise they might well be wrong.

Just to add,

I have seen CBP explaining this confusion in many threads here :)

If someone is told soemthing often enough, they might start to believe it, even when it's not true.

Thanks Ken

[greeneagle]

tomzo,

There is a big difference between "experience" and "not bright enough"...

I often fit into both categories. What a quandry!

There is way more than enough here for any of us to get a "hold on" by ourselves...

It's all about helping each other!

Ken

[cbp]

I know a hell of a lot of webmasters, and not one has told me of an increase or decrease in PR since the 1st of January. If anyone can find evidence of this, please post?

Please show me were anyone said that! We know there has not been a public PR update since 1 January. I simply pointed out that Google update frequently internally and you called me:

cbp are completely incorrect and shouldn't post on forums.

If someone is told soemthing often enough, they might start to believe it, even when it's not true

I am still yet to see anyone post in this thread supporting your stance that Google does not update as often as every two weeks internally.
Here is one of many quotes from GoogleGuy on this:

All I was trying to get across was that we have better updates of PR and links (including a comprehensive list) in-house at Google, so I personally don't pay as much attention to when we export new externally visible links or PR.

I haven't got time to look fr the others, but did find this one from the GoogleGuy says site:

this is first time GoogleGuy has hinted that PR may actually be updated daily

Still want to dispute that Google does not update PR internally more often than the toolbar update?

CBP

[Mac 5]

Originally Posted by greeneagle

IMO - Exchanging links is almost a lost cause these days.
Just about time to call it a "Depricated Practice":
Try this instead:
"Generic Link Mining - The Golden Path to "Generic" IBLs" !

I went to the site linked above from greeneagle.
2) Submit to Relevant Directories, as many as possible. Two good places to start are:
A. The GOOGLE Directory at: http://directory.google.com. Click on any targeted topic of interest and you will find a relative “Directories” Category under each.


I've noticed this before at directories, they appear to be different, but when you go to submit, it takes you to a page to submit through DMOZ. If you're already listed in DMOZ can you submit again?

http://directory.google.com/Top/Regi...nomy/Printing/
-If you click on Submit a Site on the bottom it goes to DMOZ.

[cbp]

If you're already listed in DMOZ can you submit again?

No. Unless its to a regional or topical category.

CBP

[tomzo]

cbp you're a child. No one is supporting you, only your side kick from Colombia.

That says it all.

[brucet]

Bear in mind that when Google does an update, public or private, it doesn't mean that the page rank of every page in the whole world changes.

So, just because you have been watching a few sites and the page rank doesn't seem to have changed, that doesn't mean there hasn't been an update.

[smo]

If someone is told soemthing often enough, they might start to believe it, even when it's not true.

That can happen if others are not knowledgeable enough or they are new to the subject. We apply our own judgment to the topic and decide. How some one can fool all the people all the time by saying a wrong thing?

I have experienced this many times. The February first Sunday update has doubled unique visitors to my site. Many sites ranking changed in February. There was no change in tool bar. Can this happen without an internal PR change?

I add content to my site regularly. For all major areas I get visitors from G after 4 days of adding the page. So to get a position I am pushing some sites down and when I am not modifying the content for a long time, some other site occupies the position above me. So my position keeps on changing depending on various factors. So there are always some changes going on. The major ones like February Sunday update are not very often but small changes are going on.

[greeneagle]

smo:

"I have experienced this many times. The February first Sunday update has doubled unique visitors to my site. Many sites ranking changed in February. There was no change in tool bar. Can this happen without an internal PR change?

I add content to my site regularly. For all major areas I get visitors from G after 4 days of adding the page. So to get a position I am pushing some sites down and when I am not modifying the content for a long time, some other site occupies the position above me. So my position keeps on changing depending on various factors. So there are always some changes going on. The major ones like February Sunday update are not very often but small changes are going on."

I don't often quote this much of a post...but, IMO this is a significant statement by "smo".

I have been experiencing the same on 2 Sites, but it was YAHOO that "Slam-Dunked" one of them!

Never seen YAHOO SERPs "take-off" like those!
...all about the "same time"!

Ken

[greeneagle]

Mac 5,

The best way to be listed in the GOOGLE Directory is to be listed in the DMOZ directory!

They are best "bed partners"... The absolute best!

That is not in saying; "There are no other routes there".

Ken

[greeneagle]

There are many ways to approach this topic, and we have probably broached most...But there is no reason for any one to personally attack another for their views...

None that I can think of, right now.

Ken

[allaffiliatepro]

Hi Bruce

So, just because you have been watching a few sites and the page rank doesn't seem to have changed, that doesn't mean there hasn't been an update.

My new site CosmicMarketing.com has been indexed for at least 2 months, it's PR hasn't changed. I was expecting to see a PR of at least 3 or 4 going by the sites I have linking in. If the update has already gone then my site is a little stuffed until the next update. No one will taking internet marketing advice seriously from the site until it's showing a reasonable PR.


Lyle

P.S. Will be visiting you guys next week.

[mikmik]

cpb, thanks for pointing out the 'internal' vs 'toolbar' PR. Your arguments are well supported.

Greeneagle, I had heard somewhere recently that Google is phasing out, and about to drop, DMOZ relevance.
Dang, I can't find it at the moment, but I wanted to put it out there in case others have heard this.

(I have also read they are doing major thinking about inbound link spamming via blogs, and CSS hidden text tricks.)

[greeneagle]

Hello MikMik,

Long time no see!

Salute!:

Greeneagle, I had heard somewhere recently that Google is phasing out, and about to drop, DMOZ relevance.

They sure seem to be going the opposite way in what they are tesing this time around!

Ken

[SafariMan]

Originally Posted by greeneagle

DMC_34

Just about time to call it a "Depricated Practice":

Try this instead:

"Generic Link Mining - The Golden Path to "Generic" IBLs"

I've been doing the directory submission thing for a while now, though until yesterday I was working on a dialup and it was going slow (here in dark Africa we're a bit behind the times, but I finally got ADSL).

My question is whether I should bother with directories that have no PR on their subpages? I have a huge list of directory lists, including the one on WPW you mention in your article greeneagle, but I find that many of the directories have dynamic subpages (? in URL). Is it worth anything submitting to a directory if you find all the category pages have no PR? Not referring to a single subpage without PR, which may jst be the result of a new category or so.

Pitty about greeneagle's very mature post about attacking personal views, coz I'd like to have had my say on that as well... but I'll refrain

[cbp]

My question is whether I should bother with directories that have no PR on their subpages?

How do you know that they have no PR? Google update PR internally/"in-house" on a regular basis (see above), so if the page is in the Google index then it has PR --- we just might not know what it is as Google have not publically released that PR via the tool bar since January 1. Even if they are in the index and really do have a toolbar of PR0 when its updated, its not really 0 - its just <1 --- you will still get value from it, especially if your keywords are in the anchor text.

If the page is in the Google index, I submitt - but also some directories have had problems getting indexed in Google due to 302 hijacks and other technical issues (eg Bluefind & Webatlas), but they offer good value for MSN and Yahoo...

CBP

[SafariMan]

Hi cbp,

I understand the toolbar vs Google internal PR thing and I agree completely with your view, but as an example...

Nevermind. I just noticed that WPW's forums also work on a single page, viewforum.php, without toolbar PR and they often show up in SERPS. Guess that answers my question.

Also thanks for pointing out Yahoo and MSN, coz stupid me didn't think about them!!

Guess I have a lot of work to do. Fortunately I marked all the directories I skipped with reasons.

[cbp]

BTW - I just added up the costs of submission to all the paid directories on one of those lists --- it came to greater than $4000.

CBP

[Duncan Pollock]

tomzo:

cbp you're a child. No one is supporting you, only your side kick from Colombia.
That says it all.

No, it does not!
It simply shows that you're lacking in good manners. Certainly, you're entitled to your opinions, just as other WPW members have the right to those that differ from them.
However, as Ken has said, the value of these forums is in the exchange of views. Some are right and some are not, but they're all submitted with appropriate politeness.
Unfortunately, you don't seem inclined to follow this basic rule of decency. Disagree by all means, but please -- please -- refrain from insulting members who've been part of WPW for a considerable length of time!

Duncan

[cbp]

Thanks Duncan - I actually missed that post. Funny how he thinks that no one is supporting me!!! I see lots of posts agreeing with mine and NONE agreeing with his ....

I will leave the post there for another mod to delete


CBP

[cbp]

I have set up a poll to vote on the disagreemnt:
http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=43649

CBP

[DMC_34]

Originally Posted by greeneagle

DMC_34

IMO - Exchanging links is almost a lost cause these days.

Just about time to call it a "Depricated Practice":

Try this instead:

"Generic Link Mining - The Golden Path to "Generic" IBLs"

Ken

Thanks Ken,

Good information!

[janeth]

Originally Posted by tomzo

I'm glad Janeth, that you think you are an authority on everything but you and cbp are completely incorrect and shouldn't post on forums.

You seem to be the authority, Do you have a paper for us to fill out to see if you approve our posting?

There is not a PR update every two weeks, in fact there is a site which publishes the dates in which PR updates have taken place. The last one was on the 1st of January.

That is public pr.

Fo those people who are not bright enough to understnd what I was saying about Rustybrick, I will make it very simple. I don't use the tool because I believe it is accurate,

I also try to find tools that are not accurate and use them to come to forums and tell others how smart I think Iám.

My time is too precious to be explaining this to people who can't work that out!

I understand, I will never be as smart as you and can only hope that one day I can have a pr3 site like yours.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by tomzo

Well said Ken, you are spot on, that is exactly what I was trying to get at. Most balanced people are talking about public PR, what is shown to webmasters.

Ken is also wrong.

I know a hell of a lot of webmasters, and not one has told me of an increase or decrease in PR since the 1st of January. If anyone can find evidence of this, please post?

Seems you are unable to think on your own. This could be one problem.

I'm amazed at the stupidity of some people.

I was just thinking the samething.

Thank god there some decent people out there, rather than a load of know alls who put down other peoples views, without being bright enough to realise they might well be wrong.

I agree 100%

[SafariMan]

There is not a PR update every two weeks, in fact there is a site which publishes the dates in which PR updates have taken place. The last one was on the 1st of January.

In fact, there is a site which publishes the dates in which both PR updates have taken place.

www.seocompany.ca/pagerank/page-rank-update-list.php

Don't know where they get the Directory update dates from, but if it's correct, then the last one was March 3rd.

[cbp]

To clarify, there are 3 PR update:

1. The toolbar (last one Jan 1)
2. The google directory (Last one March 3)
3. Internal/"inhouse" at Google

The public ones are (1) and (2) and lag behind (3) which is speculated is the being as often as maybe every 2 weeks.

SafariMan - that site only publishes the dates of the public updates - no ne knows when the internal/"in-house ones are.

CBP

[janeth]

If the updates only happened once every three months then you would see rankings go crazy.

But all we see are some tool bar changes, the rankings are always changing.

[pollescu]

tomzo: Can't you read??? Why are you making all this so big. Cbp is right and very clear. Google DOES INTERNAL PR UPDATES more regularly than EXTERNAL PR UPDATES!!!! And I believe we all agree on that with him!!!

[incrediblehelp]

I have simple question:

Why do I tend (not always) see more IBL increases, ranking increases with a public release of PR than these smaller internal ones that we never notice.

Of course this comes up because clients notice their PR changing in the toolbar with a public release and "in-correctly" think that is the only real update that has happened. Of course the strange thing that I am noticing is many of the client movements in ranking placements take place with public releases and not the internal small PR updates form Google. Anyone else seeing this?

Now please beware I am not talking about creating one page and getting IBL's from PR websites, article websites and directories and then seeing a ranking take place in a couple of days or weeks. Anyone of us can do that. I am more concerned with global SEO changes to websites or even website re-designs in which the whole website is changed. I rarely see the SEO value of these changes take hold in Google until the public PR update is released.

[SafariMan]

cbp, you're right about the 3rd value, but in a previous post Ken referred to that as the SERPS

"Public PageRank" is updated 4 times a year.
"Internal (Private PR) is updated about once a month.
SERPs are updated constantly.

So I didn't want to confuse the issue even more. Maybe I did by leaving it out. By definition I imagine that last one is the true pagerank of a page.

pollescu - I believe tomzo does understand the difference because he said Ken was spot on shortly after Ken's detailed explanation on page 1.
The question is why focus on the public PR when the internal/private/3rd PR is the one that determines where a site appears on the SERPS and why get person with people kind enough to share their knowledge/opinions? I personally have learnt a great deal from cbp over the past 2 years or so.

[obiztek]

On an average in 2 weeks Google keep on doing PR .

Do not put so engery in it as there lot of other comparments for SEO to focus upon. End result result will be not only good PR but many good sleeps also.