Getting to the top

[Dragonsi]

I am a web designer and webmaster, so getting my own sites and my clients sites listed high in Google is one of my proities. So I have spent the last 6 months researching how Google lists its findings and how to improve your rank.

Either it was shear good timing, or my findings have made a differance but 90% of the websites I look after have risen from knowhere to top 10 ranking over the last few months. If this is the results of the new way in which Google ranks sites, then I think the changes are for the better - but I would say this.

However, there is still one search phrase that I cannot get ranked high with one of my sites. The site in question lists No 1 with similar search phrases but is listed 200+ with this particular phrase. I have set the site up using carefully choosen page titles and well scripted text in order to achieve a high rank in this phrase but I just cannot seem to list high. There is one possible reason, which is that I do have an 'AdWord' pay-per-click for this site under the particular phrase. I have wondered if Google is deliberatly keeping this site in the low raking in order for me to keep my advert present.

Does anyone know if this could be the case or do I need to improve the page yet more in order to get the rank I desire?

The website in question is: www.pembdirectory.co.uk
Search phrase = 'pembrokeshire'

[janeth]

Can you give us the site and key words your listed for and the one you can not get listed for?

[Sualdam]

I designed a micro-site at work and it went 'live' last week.

We are already in the top 5 with Google based on searches with the keyword I chose. I must admit I was surprised how fast it happened.

Another site I host is also top-5, but I think that took a bit longer.

All we did was register with Google, DMOZ, and a couple of other listings databases and that was it. No money involved :)

[Dragonsi]

Originally Posted by janeth

Can you give us the site and key words your listed for and the one you can not get listed for?

Hi Janeth,

The site in question is: www.pembdirectory.co.uk

ok search phrases are:
"arts and crafts in pembrokeshire"
"shopping in pembrokeshire"
"ict solutions in pembrokeshire" (top 4 listings are mine)
plus a few others...

With just "pembrokeshire" as a search phrase - I am listed about 450ish...

[janeth]

Hi Dragonsi,

The problem your having is that the word "pembrokeshire" is more competetive then

"arts and crafts in pembrokeshire"

"shopping in pembrokeshire"

"ict solutions in pembrokeshire"

The 'AdWord' pay-per-click would not have anything to do with it.

When you choose arts and crafts in pembrokeshire your going against only the arts and crafts people in Pembrokeshire but when you say Pembrokeshire now you have banks, car dealers, everything in Pembrokeshire.

[Dragonsi]

That makes total sence, what is the best way of improving the site to get listed higher in this more competitive category?

[janeth]

There are a lot of ways but probley the best way is getting incoming links and using the main key words in the links.

[Dragonsi]

Cheers, this has settled a few thoughts. Now to get to work...

[geoffreygag]

Gragonsi,

the 'AdWord' should not be a factor in a lower position. In fact, 'AdWord' placement on your site carries a mutual benefit for you and Google to be placed higher.

[ronniethedodger]

Originally Posted by geoffreygag

the 'AdWord' should not be a factor in a lower position. In fact, 'AdWord' placement on your site carries a mutual benefit for you and Google to be placed higher.

One would think so ... but I have found that is not the case.

I have pages that place number one without AdWords on them. Pages with AdWords on them went into the crapper so to speak last November. So that theory is not a plausible one.

Although I will concede that it may help a little, or Google did another tweak on their algo. Just last week those AdWord pages came out of Twilight Zone and are now up to #54.

Another thing happened right about that time, that I thought was very strange. I noticed in my logs a vistit from a Google IP address...it was not the googlebot -- but a human from Google itself. I am sure it was part of their AdWords staff doing one of their checks, but I cannot say for certain. It was shortly after that when those pages got released from oblivion and are now back in the results, albeit lower than they were in October.

[Dragonsi]

I too have noticed a Google IP visit other than the bot's usual visits. This happened just after I paused my main adword campaign (for the Christmas period).

I do have concerns that I might drop in ranking due to me pausing this campaign. I am watching my listings on a regular bases - so far no real drop, infact in some categories, I have risen.

[ronniethedodger]

Originally Posted by Dragonsi

I too have noticed a Google IP visit other than the bot's usual visits. This happened just after I paused my main adword campaign (for the Christmas period).

I do have concerns that I might drop in ranking due to me pausing this campaign. I am watching my listings on a regular bases - so far no real drop, infact in some categories, I have risen.

I would not look (or base) at whether or not your keywords are disappearing. Look at your traffic logs and base your decisions on those. Factor in the delay from major changes at your site, and when the actual repercussion of those changes might take effect.

In the last two and a half months (outside of normal maintenance) I have only did one major change. This was prior to Thanksgiving when I rolled out a Xmas themed home page and revised one other internal page slightly. The home page change was so drastic, that it prompted a complete recrawl of my site by Google.

Prior to November traffic was moderate. In Novemeber (almost right from the beginning of that month) my traffic had doubled. So far for December my traffic appears to be on course to be up 50% more over November.

I have not touched, revised, added or deleted any pages that contain the GoogleAds.

[Dragonsi]

I think you are right in respect to my ranking rising. At the begining of Nov, I completely changed my main site. A new look and carefully chosen text (aimed at SE's and visitors) together with different page titles that related more to each page contents rather than the previous general titles. Within 2 to 3 weeks, I suddenly apeared in the top 5 rankings on cetain search phrases.

At the begining of Dec, I also updated all of my customer care site (a subfolder of the main directory). This part of the website still contains frames because I wish to call upon certain pages from other sites but without any banners apearing. Are framed sites still ignored by the crawlers?

[ronniethedodger]

Originally Posted by Dragonsi

At the begining of Dec, I also updated all of my customer care site (a subfolder of the main directory). This part of the website still contains frames because I wish to call upon certain pages from other sites but without any banners apearing. Are framed sites still ignored by the crawlers?

Maybe. How is that for an answer. But it is true.

Frames can actually trap spiders if not implented correctly. In that case, they are very bad.

Here is a tool you can use on your site. It is the Lynx Browser. Basicly, it will show you what a spider normally will see. If you can navigate thru your site effectively and easily with this browser, then so should a spider be able to do so also.

It is available at http://lynx.browser.org/

This browser is text only, does not show images, does not parse javascript....hmmm, sounds almost like a spider to me.