Who is Google punishing?

[minstrel]

There seem to be two rather different viewpoints about the recent adjustments to the Google algorithms.

One (the most vocal camp although not necessarily the majority) is crying foul - all sorts of conspiracy theories about Google trying to steer people towards paid services and such. Some in this camp even talk about a need for government regulation and activism to replace Google by somebody else, anybody else, who will be friendlier to their industry. This camp also complains that their sites have been replaced in the SE listings by sites which aren't even relevant to the search phrases.

The second, far less vocal camp has been interjecting observations about many of the more recent Google searches being more relevant and containing fewer outdated sites in the listings. This group also tries to point out that what Google is doing is basically trying to put in place some penalties for categories of web sites or specific SEO strategies that have in the past attempted to manipulate and use unfair means to get Google to display their chosen websites higher in the listings than their competitors.

One point one we should note, of course, is that all indications are that the Google algorithm adjustments are still ongoing, still being fine-tuned... and it seems to me that, until the process is finished, getting irate about the outcome is a little like criticizing a recipe before all the ingredients have been added and mixed.

The first camp often cites scroogle.com as one of their champions and watchdogs. But there is a very interesting page on the scroogle site that I just discovered tonight (it's new to me - no doubt many of you have already seen it):

http://www.scroogle.org/hitlist.html

Take a look at this list of "punished" search phrases. It is unquestionably a mixed list and I won't deny that I was surprised that some of the phrases on the list were included (although again I remind you that the process is still ongoing so this list may well change before it's all done).

But what impressed me most is how many of these phrases would for most people do a pretty good job of describing the spam we all complain about when it arrives daily in our in-boxes, or even those annoying telemarketing calls we all love to hate.

So what does it all mean? Probably that Google doesn't like being manipulated any more than the rest of us and that they are taking steps to try to minimize that and preserve the integrity of their searches. Have they got it right yet? Probably not... Are they headed in the right direction? Personally, I think they probably are, although I have no doubt that many will disagree...

And, for those of you who do disagree, I would ask you to think about this: We have all seen many examples of websites that have been outrageous spammers and spoofers, to the extent that almost everybody would agree they should be banished to the lower echelons of the SE results. What would you do to rid the SE results of these sites? If you were Google, how would you deal with this problem in a way that you think would be less unfair?

(Hint: the previous status quo isn't an acceptable answer, since it doesn't solve the problem of unfair manipulation of the SE results.)

[greeneagle]

minstrel,

I think you captured the scenario well. Maybe so well that there is logically only one safe road. The one that has been the safest all along.
My view:

Competition forces advancement due to human nature. After all, that is one of the founding principles of Democracy itself. However, once a freedom of another is violated, the violator often suffers consequences. After all, it has been said that the United States has a higher percentage of incarcerated population than any other “free” society in the history of mankind. Unchecked freedom in any endeavor feeds the freedom-competition-greed-malfeasance-punishment chain. We see it all the time in Hollywood Star and Corporate Executive news stories. Or, were the Enron, WorldCom, Cendant, Tyco and, Adelphia executives just "spamming" Investors and Employees? Sure, everyone that reaches the punishment end of the chain cries “FOUL” and blames someone else, that is our societal mentality these days!

I guess everyone crying “FOUL” wants to turn over Internet governance to the Government, or the World Trade Organization.

I prefer leaving it in the hands of a free enterprise entity who has demonstrated a better understanding than anyone else up to this point.

The only safe road is really where 99% of us want to go anyway --- Real Value.

Ken

[dvdraper]

My post is a great big whine to all the whiners who obviously want Google to carry them forever. Google has served us well for years and the whiners remind me of the fans who abandon their favorite sports team when it loses a game or two. Quit whining, give em' a break and continue to support the greatest engine ever to hit the www.
dd

[activebiz]

more power to google cleaning up the cockfight of tricks, overpayments and unfair methods.
We are in Google since they started, never paid a dime and still rank pretty much on top with extreme generic search terms. Maybe its that Google appreciates a consistent and honest website development over masses of raunchy links.

The Google guys obviously knew what they were doind from the start - and it is doubtful that they suddenly lost their brains. And they sure are not so stupid to loose their shareholders by reducing their might just because of a crowd of websites that used every trick in the book to get higher rankings -
LOL - honesty and correctness still prevails - obviously.
Mor power to Google to DARE to clean up!!!!!

[greatesc]

Google is a free service, at least as far as I know. I think they can do what the want and run their site as they see fit. We may not always like what happens out there on the web but we adjust. I try not to rely one one site to give me the world. Any change in business strategies rests entirely with the people in charge of the company. I wish them luck and hope that they made the right decision.

[trsiyengar]

In my sincere opinion, it is only a specific smaller section - those who lost, are cryilng foul. I have been following google's ranking order on many search key words and find the elevation or downgrades are just within the common mans purview. Just only because of unfair means of manipulating the SE norms, these very same losers offer some tactical upgrade, just for a premium!

Any thing that grows faster than light, will surely crash on its own weight. Google too relizing this, split its own SE system, just by linguistic and zonal provisions. Moreover, their own group of SE gives different kind of placement for the same coin of Search key. Everyone knows this google dance.

Because of its volume, it is just not possible to frame the SE mode to alphabetical order. Nor it will make any sense. Then too someone will try to be on top, might add any number of A's to his/her biz. house. What then the solution?

It should now be focussed to give the listings only on the relevence. viz.: biz. directory, a category or product-wise they can bring out these directory. The listings here can be ranked, rather than mixing and ranking one and all on a single key word. The key word search should begin when the category selected. Then only the ranking should take over. i.e. in each category or relevent listing.

If Tim is selling cakes, he adds 'Sweet' Cakes. If Tom is selling greeting cards, he too states it as 'sweet' memory greeting cards. And a car engine manufactures too uses this 'sweet' word to add wording such as, "sweet memorable drive - with our Engine in your car". Should all these three come under one category? When one searches for 'Sweet" they land in an ocean of results, but sweet!

Does all the three need to be listed in one bundle? Why can't they first distinguish the category, and then only to go for key word searches? By this way, the people who search too can tactically post their needs and avail the result in the 'key' search as a second step. Sure, it might take a few more seconds or a minute, but it will be worth to focus.

What then the manipulators find other methods to get your attention is, as they are allways savvy, is altogether a different matter!

When every law is passed, some one finds the loop-hole to break it. It is only human to be competitive and rank high. But unethical means are growing in the mad mad ad/IT world. But giving it to any Government is suicidal. Who knows what kind of person will become your Governor! If business sectors representatives are included, then groupism and favouritsm will surely grow, money will surely play a role much higher than now.

If nothing works out, Leave alone google. Let them be as they are now, doing their own business.

trsiyengar Dec. 17, 2003
www.trsiyengar.com

no matter how much i want to complain about it (Google), i'll forever be addicted to it ....just like watching "Law and Order" on Monday night on TNT where i complain about the plots/scriptwriting but there i am watching four (4) one hour episodes in a row...lol...

what makes Google beautiful is the same thing that also makes it vulnerable to exploit ...so the road to Googlenirvana will always be congested with both supporters and detractors honking at each other...

Google is trying to make ppc people happy as well as the organicHeads and this is no small order. it will have to play Devils advocate for each side as they spin off questions into that abyss of secrecy which is both the allure & part and parcle of the psychological packaging that is indigenous to Google

all in all-- if a nutshell remedy to Googleneurosis is needed; then cooking up a healthy dose of good content into one's site supported all the w/ relevant metas, tags & keys....is probably recommended.
i have seen that in 95% of the cases a content rich website (with no frames) will secure a good spot in the index time after time (unless U live in Florida lol)

and for the peolple/designers/emarketers who are currently abusing/exploiting the system.....well did anyone ever read Dante's "Inferno"?

OK my 2 1/2 cents ;-)
cheers!
DAREN
http://WebPageTurner.com

[janeth]

I have no problem with Google and we are ranked for over 200 key words in the top 20 on Google as we where before the changes.

But I think they have gotten to big. I will be glad to see MSN and Yahoo in the fight.

[sudhani]

Originally Posted by janeth

I have no problem with Google

Think there is no problem for many people who actually use google for finding information or products online.

Originally Posted by janeth

But I think they have gotten to big. I will be glad to see MSN and Yahoo in the fight.

Dont you think other SE's will take a lot of time to catch up with Google???

[minstrel]

Originally Posted by daren

the road to Googlenirvana will always be congested with both supporters and detractors honking at each other...

LMAO... another well-turned phrase, Daren... ;-)

Google is trying to make ppc people happy as well as the organicHeads

...while the propellerheads sit off to the side and hypothesize about how it's all really done...

if a nutshell remedy to Googleneurosis is needed; then cooking up a healthy dose of good content into one's site supported all the w/ relevant metas, tags & keys....is probably recommended.

good summary... and another great Google word... ;-)

and for the people/designers/emarketers who are currently abusing/exploiting the system.....well did anyone ever read Dante's "Inferno"?

"I tried to read it... what a preachy book!" - Homer Simpson

"I like the way this Snrub thinks!" - Waylon Smithers

[trsiyengar]

Compare this:

For over 100 key words phrases, Google returned with 1,000,000 plus search results.
MSN gave results with 200,000
Yahoo gave around 350,000
AOL with 35,000
Rediff returned with 2,350 only.

Does any one think that a person searching for a result will go through all the 1,000,000 entries posted by Google? Hah, 10% of it? I don't think even they scrol through one percent of the posted links.

Comparatively, Googles database is too large to ignore. Even if all other SEs merged together, then too Google will stand on the top. I am not commenting AJ, Hotbot, and other SE. This is a kind of monopoly that makes Google smile all the way to its Safe Vault.

Develop a competitor. Give him all support. Provide larger database than the biggest one has now. Give only professionals to handle it by merit for ranking. Let us see they grow. For how long we should wait to see the Competitor to grow? Oh, not less than four full years! But why, why four years? Here the biz. Experts will surely agree what I mean by practical.

By that time, with its vast available resources and support from the majority of common and lesser-known Internet users, Google would have grown far more than one expects. The compulsion of survival in the market will force Google to take every step to curb the newly entering competitor, in addition to its own mega size developments. Who knows, they may even induce you with a lot more freebies & gifts, to keep the flocks together in their fold.

I hope, someone somewhere watching these posting in this forum, thinking of developing some kind of Check and balance to keep off the raising Bank balance of Google!

Trsiyengar
www.trsiyengar.com

[ronniethedodger]

Originally Posted by minstrel

The first camp often cites scroogle.com as one of their champions and watchdogs. But there is a very interesting page on the scroogle site that I just discovered tonight (it's new to me - no doubt many of you have already seen it):

http://www.scroogle.org/hitlist.html

Take a look at this list of "punished" search phrases. It is unquestionably a mixed list and I won't deny that I was surprised that some of the phrases on the list were included (although again I remind you that the process is still ongoing so this list may well change before it's all done).

I came across Scroogle a few weeks ago when I saw it as a referral in my logs.

Would like to add that the "punished" list you are referring to is a constantly changing window of terms. The terms are compiled from the users of Scroogle's screen scraping utility, and not a definitive list. It is always changing.

You can also thank this site for changing the bug in applying the "-AopOuy" (or whatever) to your search query to detect whether or not you have been dinged and are having the filter applied to you. Google has since then fixed that little trick and it no longer works.

Scroogle will be phasing out this utility shortly, for it is of no value any more. They do have an interesting article at the site with some some very keen technical observations into the how and why of the filter itself. Makes for interesting reading.

As for what to do in the meantime? The same thing you have been doing all along. Just keep on keeping on.

Spammers will always manage to sneak in, but they are inevitably ratted on or found out and soon disappear from the results forever. If you did well before and in an ethical manner, you will do well always and should not lose any sleep over it.

Bottom line is, in the case of Google ... you get what you pay for !!! I mean this in the sense of how you go about getting there in the first place in well written content and uniqueness to deserve a top spot in their listings. If you go against Google's guidelines, then you deserve what you get.

[nakulgoyal]

Yes, the best example is Florida or the Scroogle list. They have hit spammers badly and my clients are happy that they regained some of their top rankings which they lost in last 4-8 weeks just because some sites cameon top from somwhere and now they are nowhere.

I have several two phrase terms from the scroogle list which make me feel proud of being #1 TODAY. :-)

Wonder HOW HAPPY I am.

[trsiyengar]

During early 80's there was a musquito coil manufacturer in India who did well in the market. When he heard some one entering the market to compete his product, he started another brand of same product, of his own; but with inferior quality.

When people buy this product, he thought, they will realize how good the first product was and stick to the original one, rather than buying the latest ones that come to the market.

But to promote the second inferior product, he did hire the same ad agency (or was it the ad aency's novel idea?). This came to liht when some professionals realized, how two competitors product were handled by one and the same ad agency. When searching the source, many curious market men found it was the same manufacturer who marketed both the products!

Google? Scroogle? Who promotes whom?

The vast forums that discusses Google thread, really end up with no firm solution or find an alternate. The end result is : Goodle gets more and wider publicty at free of cost! and smiling all the way to be anchored at the top!

Merry X'mas and Happy & prosperous 2004, Friends, till we meet again,
trsiyengar
Dec. 24, 2003
www.trsiyengar.com