Links pages, can they have a negative or neutral effect?

Jet T · #1 (**permalink**) 03-07-2005, 01:55 PM

Recent word has it that Google scores links from another site back to yours less when there is a link
to that site from yours ie an exchanged link.

I've even heard that any exchanged link doesn't score at all. Does this mean having a links page with links that have been exchanged now has no affect or even a negative affect and is it still worth having a links page at all or best just to dump it.

cbp · #2 (**permalink**) 03-07-2005, 05:44 PM

Its not true. It just people taking educated guesses and no one really knows for sure

Sites that have nothing but reciprocal links (even thought I personally don't do that) can and do still rank well.

CBP

wednesday · #3 (**permalink**) 03-07-2005, 06:15 PM

CBP, what do you think will be the impact of reciprocal links in future.

A: negative
B: some value, but not enought to worth doing it at all
C: still a player, with relevant recips
D: no effect - positive or negative
E: something else

This is not a test, I'm just very curious about your opinion. I'm concerned about my directory. And an extended response will be very appreciated. not only by me I guess. :)

Martin

Phil Tanny · #4 (**permalink**) 03-07-2005, 06:34 PM

Hi guys,

Here's my guess.

1) I'd suggest we get away from links pages.

Ask yourself if a site you are considering linking with is good enough, and relevant enough, to merit a review on your site. If it is, write it up in to an article, and add some new relevant content to your site. Tell your link partners, "give me a well placed link, and I'll give you a full page ad on my site."

2) Take your link partners seriously, they may be your salvation if/when free search engine traffic becomes problematic. Why not set up a mailing list for your link partners and send them a useful note once in awhile. Make some connections and friends, learn what you can, look for deeper partnership opportunities.

3) Look a little farther in to the future. Can you get a top ten ranking for "travel" or "jobs"? Nah, me neither. SEO isn't going to last forever, we're all gobbling up positions and obscure keywords at a rapid rate.

If that day comes for you in your niche, your link partners may turn out to be your ace in the hole. If you've tended the relationships.

Best of luck!

wednesday · #5 (**permalink**) 03-07-2005, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Tanny

Ask yourself if a site you are considering linking with is good enough, and relevant enough, to merit a review on your site. If it is, write it up in to an article, and add some new relevant content to your site. Tell your link partners, "give me a well placed link, and I'll give you a full page ad on my site."

Will you write an article for a geo relevant link?

Quote:

3) Look a little farther in to the future. Can you get a top ten ranking for "travel" or "jobs"? Nah, me neither. SEO isn't going to last forever, we're all gobbling up positions and obscure keywords at a rapid rate.

Why not? If you can offer the best service and content. Why not really? Do you need examples... garage start ups? This is internet and everything is posible.

Martin

Jet T · #6 (**permalink**) 03-08-2005, 06:01 AM

I think SEO will still be around. It's just that as ever things will change and new principles or variants will apply.

Personally I think that the returns I get from Google when I search for something are getting less and less relevant every day.

For instance I try 'web design', I get massive bucket shops selling templates. So I try 'web design agency'. I get a list of large web design agencies from Maine to Michigan and I'm from the UK. So I try 'web design agency UK' and I get one of the trade associations.

So I try 'web design agency UK Bristol' and I get an agency with one man, a dog and a lawnmower, while that state of the art agency that does those superb animations that I met at that trade show is nowhere to be seen. Mind you the lawnmower guy had stuffed his site with the word 'Bristol' in the hope that one day someone might find his site through Google using the search term 'Bristol' even though Wordtracker said 'web design agency Bristol' was searched for once a month after 30x390 million searches.

And that's the point. Just because a guy knows a bit about SEO or pays a professional to get him to the top of Google for an obscure search term doesn't in any way mean that he has the most relevant site at all.

It just means he optimised it, and built links to it and so on more than the other guys. Contentious maybe in a forum on the subject but something that we shouldn't lose site of. Of course as Google battles away to get around this problem then so we SEO guys learn more ways of using the rules (algorithms) to best affect and make our clients' sites more 'relevant'.

rlrouse · #7 (**permalink**) 03-08-2005, 03:27 PM

A few questions and answers:

Q. Is Google likely to discount reciprocal links at some point in the future (just not count them for ranking purposes)?

A. Possibly, but I doubt it. Reciprocal linking (sharing traffic) has been around since the dawn of the web, predating Google by several years.

Q. Is Google likely to actually penalize a site for reciprocal linking (linking to bad neighborhoods excepted)?

A. No. As long as your links are to good neighborhoods you should never be penalized for reciprocal linking. Not only would that be completely contrary to the way the web works, it would ultimately be to the detriment of Google because the use of paid links would skyrocket.

At least the majority of reciprocal links are to sonewhat related sites (if not you probably have a link farm). Paid links tend to be from unrelated sites.

Q. Do reciprocal links still help with SE rankings?

A. As of today, yes (and very well I might add).

cbp · #8 (**permalink**) 03-08-2005, 05:25 PM

I used to be of the opinion that reciprocal links should be discounted as they are really just a "I vote for you if you vote for me" type situation that is getting out of hand --- ie people focus on link and not on making good useful sites.

I am not now so sure that they should be discounted as I link to a lot of sites (becasue they are good) - a number of them link back to me --- this was not a reciprocal arrangement, but assume they linked to me as they like my site...

If I was Google, this is what I would do:
1) reciprocal links count (maybe not for a lot)
2) one way links from sites count for more (esp if authority sites and on-theme sites and high ranked sites for the keywrd(s)

If you look at the Google patents and theories (ie Hiiltop; Topic Sensitive PR; Local Rank) - they all cover (2) ---- it is possible that Google is alrady doing this .... we just do not no. Reciprocals still work --- I just don't do them.

CBP

mj2043 · #9 (**permalink**) 03-08-2005, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbp

If I was Google, this is what I would do:

theme nonreciprocal > theme reciprocal > nontheme reciprocal....

tertius · #10 (**permalink**) 03-10-2005, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet T

Recent word has it that Google scores links from another site back to yours less when there is a link to that site from yours ie an exchanged link.

I've even heard that any exchanged link doesn't score at all. Does this mean having a links page with links that have been exchanged now has no affect or even a negative affect and is it still worth having a links page at all or best just to dump it.

We focus so much on the effect of hyperlinks on search engine page rank positions that sometimes we lose sight of why we even have hyperlinks.

To attempt an answer to the second half of your question ("...is it still worth having a links page at all or best just to dump it."), let's back up a bit and ask "what is/are the purpose(s) of offsite hyperlinks?".

Given the informational nature of the Internet, first consider your website visitors--what benefit do they get from having hyperlinks on your pages? Are the hyperlinks providing source documentation, links to other content confirming the validity or value of your content, links to regulatory or advisory organizations, links to suppliers, manufacturers, vendors, etc.?

When you provide hyperlinks, do they meet a need of your website visitors? Is there a clear "what's in it for me?" benefit to your visitors (assuming you're not trying to attract link-wandering surfers to boost website visitor numbers....) Do you plan to have the links take them off your website, or do you plan to have the links open in a new browser window and not distract them from a planned path and action on your website? Do you use hyperlinks to give the visitors the appearance that your site is an authority on a topic or would be a useful resource or reference on the page topic? Can you think of other reasons why providing hyperlinks would benefit your visitors?

Second, what non-visitor benefits do your hyperlinks provide? Clearly, the purpose we focus on most in this forum is the effect on search engine page rank positioning, but there are other benefits (such as providing benefits to the website you are linking to....) Does your business reputation and your website gain anything through the hyperlink, or are you just being altruistically motivated to provide the best resources to your site visitors?

Since the search engines are in the business of competing to provide the best web page content from their index of pages that will meet their users' needs, don't you think their hyperlink-related algorithm(s) should--and will--be weighted toward links that benefit the page visitor while ignoring or even discounting links that don't match the page theme or content and appear to be links that merely attempt to influence page rank position?

As for hyperlink effects on Google, more power to 'em if they can figure out a formula to accurately give weight to links that are useful to the searchers while ignoring or even penalizing sites with links that don't help meet the searchers' needs--and that would also be a real benefit to the web pro community!

**crankydave** · #11 (**permalink**) 03-10-2005, 05:53 PM

Quote:

2) one way links from sites count for more (esp if authority sites and on-theme sites and high ranked sites for the keywrd(s)

The danger here is you cannot control who links to you. A link from a "bad neighborhood" could be used to intentionally hurt a site.

Dave

mtbot · #12 (**permalink**) 03-10-2005, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Do you plan to have the links take them off your website, or do you plan to have the links open in a new browser window and not distract them from a planned path and action on your website?

This is a good idea. A page of non-relevant reciprocal links should open in a new browser window.

garbageaccount · #13 (**permalink**) 03-15-2005, 01:48 PM

Quote:

1) I'd suggest we get away from links pages.

Ask yourself if a site you are considering linking with is good enough, and relevant enough, to merit a review on your site. If it is, write it up in to an article, and add some new relevant content to your site.

hmmm I'm wondering if possibly doing something like this with our Blog might be a good idea.

RadarCat · #14 (**permalink**) 03-15-2005, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Tanny

Hi guys,

Here's my guess.

1) I'd suggest we get away from links pages.

Not me!! My entire site is built around links. I get a LOT of top rankings with the AllTheWeb, Altavista, MSN, and Yahoo search engines, while with Google I am buried under tons of old sites full of dead links that have been floating around the web without a update in years.

I think Google is lost trying to make an algorithm
based on link popularity work. As far as I am concerned Google is irrelevant, just like the results they usually return.

If the new Google stockholders knew what we know!!