Page Rank -- Which way is it?

[Ricardo Zea]

Ok, is it me or is it them, my coworkers... maybe it´s me so I need you to help us clarify a concept here.

Is MY Page Rank affected by the links from other sites to mine, or is MY Page Rank affected by the links from my own site to others?

Thanks guys.

Zuertex

[Needabed]

a bit of both I think but Page rank is a mess at present.

[cbp]

I think but Page rank is a mess at present.

What makes you say that?

PR (PageRank) is nothing more than a mathematical function of the numberand quality of links that are coming into a page (not a site)

Page rank or the ranking of a page is a mathematical algorithm function that depends of hundreds of things, of which PR is only one.

CBP

[rivux]

Originally Posted by Needabed

a bit of both I think but Page rank is a mess at present.

hogwash. Your PR from google has nothing, zero, ziltch to do with links from your page. Its about links TO your page. Unless you've seen Google publish another paper with this new idea in it, I would suggest you stop uttering it.

[mj2043]

rivux, you are correct 100% theoretically.
But as we work with websites (and question is being asked about website) with pages, if we link more external pages (of other sites) we may loss some PR which otherwise can help to increase PR of other internal pages of the site. I think that is what Needabed means.

cbp, look this small list of fake PR site, is getting mess, as people can easily manipulate it..

http://easytool.org/fakeprsite.htm

[PizdusInc]

Originally Posted by rivux

I would argue the fact that it's all about links "TO your page..." Google's algorithm programming is related to the real world... what do I mean? Well, if you think about it, when you sit down to have a drink with your friends and you start talking about, for example, computer parts... well, of course in the course of the conversation someone will mention the best place to buy computer parts, right? One person may mention Best Buy and another Circuit City... If you apply the same to the WWW, that would count as a link, correct? So, why would Google not count outgoing links, when they are linking to IMPORTANT/QUALITY sites?

I believe that it is just as important linking to sites which will provide your customer/visitor with quality content as it is receiving links from sites because YOU yourself provide quality content!

Hope that makes some sense...

Marc

[activeco]

Originally Posted by PizdusInc

So, why would Google not count outgoing links, when they are linking to IMPORTANT/QUALITY sites?

No, it's not the (known) way Google PR is calculated.

Outgoing links are suposedly important in calculating G SERPS.
The page can recieve some penalties if links to blacklisted pages/sites/IP's, but it is not widely known that it have any influence to PR, altough remotely possible.

In any case. outgoing links can not influence page's PR in a positive way. You can try linking crazy to MS, Yahoo, etc., but that would not really be helpful to your site.

[PizdusInc]

Originally Posted by activeco

No, it's not the (known) way Google PR is calculated.

True... "it's not the known way..." But, we do not exacly know whether they DO factor that in to their equation. From my experiance, it has helped to link to pages where a certain visitor could benefit more from another site than what is only aviailable on a given site.

If you look at Google itself (I know this is probably a bad example)... Google is a SE that ranks pages according to relevance, if you had a web site which linked to a certain search query, why would Google not give you a higher ranking because you are providing your visitor with exactly what they are looking for? As opposed to having, for example, a sale on a given site which would not help a visitor accomplish anything?

If you read Google's guide lines, they clearly stat that anything you create on the web should benefit the user not the search engine...

As for the backlisted pages/sites/IP's, I am sure that Google is smart enough to figure those into the equation as bad links, as opposed to linking to Yahoo which would clearly not a backlisted site. All it would take is a database where it would look up whether a site is backlisted or not... that is a simple query that would take split seconds to execute.

I do agree with most of your comments, however...

[activeco]

Well, everything is possible, although it is hard to believe that Google would allow such an easy way for manipulation.

I see more people claiming this, e.g. member from this forum SeoForGoogle says on his site http://www.seoforgoogle.com/articles...ound-Links.cfm that he created a new site with "The only thing the page consisted of were 80+ outbound links to relevant sites..." and "When the PageRank was first updated for the site, it came out of the box with a PR of 3."

Funny, but since the page had to be found, maybe the initial link was coming from higher PR page.
OK, maybe not...

[PizdusInc]

I would not consider it "an easy way of manimpulation." Google has hundreds of factors that are involved with ranking a page, these may only be one or two of them that remotely affect the outcome. Another possibility could be the use of Google's "voting buttons" which are only available through the advanced properties of the Google toolbar... "vote for this page" or "vote against this page" We cannot be certain that those two smiley/frown faces do not affect the ranking of sites.

I, personally, believe that if you provide your visitor/user with quality content, whether it be on your site or an external site, you will be rewarded for it on Google as well as other search engines. We have to remember that most of Google's employees have a PHD in one thing or another, so they are not stupid... I don't think they would allow such easy ways to manipulate their search engine... even though it seems to be that easy at times.

But, that is just my personal opinion...

[PizdusInc]

I would not consider it "an easy way of manimpulation." Google has hundreds of factors that are involved with ranking a page, these may only be one or two of them that remotely affect the outcome. Another possibility could be the use of Google's "voting buttons" which are only available through the advanced properties of the Google toolbar... "vote for this page" or "vote against this page" We cannot be certain that those two smiley/frown faces do not affect the ranking of sites.

I, personally, believe that if you provide your visitor/user with quality content, whether it be on your site or an external site, you will be rewarded for it on Google as well as other search engines. We have to remember that most of Google's employees have a PHD in one thing or another, so they are not stupid... I don't think they would allow such easy ways to manipulate their search engine... even though it seems to be that easy at times.

But, that is just my personal opinion...

[rivux]

Originally Posted by PizdusInc

I, personally, believe that if you provide your visitor/user with quality content, whether it be on your site or an external site, you will be rewarded for it on Google as well as other search engines.

Google isn't god, in the figurative or literal sense. You get 'rewarded' when your site meets a set of scientifically based criteria, not because you helped walk an old lady across the street.

[Ricardo Zea]

Ok, this is getting hot interesting, here´s what I think after having a conversation about PR with a friend here at the office and reading all posts.

--

If PR is a mess at this moment, than that´s something we are going to have to live with... or change your job :)

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rivux says:

Its about links TO your page.

110% agreed.

PizdusInc says:

...One person may mention Best Buy and another Circuit City... If you apply the same to the WWW, that would count as a link, correct?

Yes, but what would everybody think about Best Buy if this person you say, has filed bankruptcy and is above his neck with financial problems? Now, multiply this person by 10 million...

That wouldn´t be so good for Best Buy.

What I´m saying is that the quality of links pointing TO you, are the ones that affect you PR, not the ones OUT of you.

PR, at least for what I have read and understood, and for what my logic tells me, is about what others say about you, not what you say about others.

activeco says:

You can try linking crazy to MS, Yahoo, etc., but that would not really be helpful to your site.

110% agreed.

If outgoing links, from my site would REALLY, read very carefully, REALLY AFFECT my PR, than guys, all riddles are solved!!!: Just create a megapack of pages with links pointing to Google, Yahoo!, MSN and Altavista, FTP them to your site and that´s it! :p

--

We are going to do an experiment here at my office. We have developed a software that creates almost 13.000 HTML pages in about 2 hours. We are going to create 13.000 pages pointing to Google and FTP them to a PR-2 site, and other 13.000 pages pointing to a site with PR 0 on another PR-2 site... in a month we should be able to tell FOR CERTAIN, if PR is affected or not by outgoing links. My theory says that the PR of these websites, will not change.

Thank you very much guys :)

Zuertex

[PizdusInc]

Ricardo Zea,

Yes, it would not necessarily be good for Best Buy, however, the people who filed for bankruptcy (and because they did file for bankruptcy ) are referring a person to Best Buy because that person would be able to get all what they need there... Therefore, making Best Buy stronger. The site/person would be saying "You can't get this here, but here's a great place to get it at."

I am not necessarily saying that outbound links affect your PR... they do not in a major way, but what I think they do is affect your ranking in the SERP's. Like I tried to explain, the outbound links are just a small factor in the whole Google equation... they do not necessarily mean you will get a higher PR.

Hope that makes sense...

[ctabuk]

Hi, you've answered some of the questions, have any of you been following this?
www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=36329

Cheers David

[Ricardo Zea]

Hello ctabuk.

Yes, well, that is strange nevertheless: A website with no HTML content (I mean in sentences and words, not in code), with only one website linking to it, and with a PR of 4.

Now, I see that that site has only six outbound links, from which two sites have PR-3, and the rest have PRs of 4, 5, 6 and 7 respectively.

So, what is the catch here? how is it that this site, with only 1 inbound link and 6 outbound links can get a PR of 4???

Is my theory of PR depending on inbound links false now?

I have to add two questions here:

1. When I saw the source with Firefox, what I saw was only a list of javascripts, and when I checked the source with IE, I could see the entire HTML code as you normaly would. Why is it that FFx sees one thing, and IE, another?

2. Is Google being able to read INSIDE javascripts?

Thanks guys.

[greeneagle]

activeco:

"In any case. outgoing links can not influence page's PR in a positive way."

IMO - I completely disagree with you here after this last update... www.tubeltechnologies.com

Ken

[activeco]

Ken, I already answered that PR6, with my theory.

[greeneagle]

Jog my memory... It wasn't the suggestion that One DMOZ inclusion that was already in place popped us up from a 4 to a 6 was it?

Ken

[activeco]

Nope, message #14, right above your last one in this thread:

http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=36086

[magnolia1]

When are you two going stop flirting and ask each other out?

[activeco]

Originally Posted by magnolia1

When are you two going stop flirting and ask each other out?

It happened already ;-)

Yes, I also think some irrelevant messages should be deleted from this thread. We should have dealt it using PM.
Mods?

[Ricardo Zea]

I thought that with as little as 180 and more than 2000 posts, you guys would be the S