Hyphen Limit - - - PENALTIES

[LLFitness_Derek]

Given that google likes hyphens in a domain name over spaces and underscores:

Have any studies been done on the number of hyphens a domain can have in its name? I am about to start promoting a site with the domain name Pool-Tables-And-Ques.com and i am worried that three hyphens may be too many. If this question has been asked before please guide me to the post. If this question has not been referenced before please give any advice, examples, or encounters with this.

Sincerely,
Derek

Hi LLFitness_Derek,

I highly doubt Google would penalized a registered TLD (top level domain) due to its characteristics alone. I suspect that if there are such penalties for underscoring, it would be minor & more directed toward file or page names.

I do not find any evidence of penalties for the number of dashes found within TLDs.

I hope this helps.

[cbp]

I agree, doubt Google would penalise it. I didn't know that Google gave any great, if any benefit to them any way.

<DMOZ editor hat on> It looks spammy, so might trigger a red flag in editors head to look closer at site, to see if any scams or tricks *might* being tried </DMOZ editor hat off>

CBP

[LLFitness_Derek]

Thanks Guys - These small things can make all the difference in the long run...

[bhartzer]

Actually, I've heard from an SEO friend recently that there is a penalty being given to domain names that have more than two hyphens in them.

Two is okay, three or more is not okay.

[LLFitness_Derek]

Is there a way i can contact this friend to ask him about his findings?

I have three hyphens in my name so i need a definate answer. Does your friend have something to back that hypothesis up?

[bhartzer]

Sure, I recently had a conversation with Shari Thurow regarding multiple hyphens in domain names, and she briefly touches on it here in this article (I realize that the article is rather old, though).

You could try asking Shari about this for clarification. I know Christine Churchill has told me that she talked to some search engine engineer that told her that any more than two hyphens can be a problem.

I challenge you, though, to find a top-ranking site for a one or two word search phrase that has more than 2 hyphens in their domain name.

[DriWashSolutions]

Originally Posted by bhartzer

Two is okay, three or more is not okay.

I don't believe this to be true. Do a G search for dri wash. Look at the site listed 2nd. Three hyphens in the domain and listed 2nd.

[LLFitness_Derek]

Since this topic can be very debated and has no proof of solution yet, can I get some ideas thrown at me on how to mix the words "pool tables" and "ques" into a domain name-

I was thinking www.pooltables-and-ques.com

The two keywords I want to rank in the top 3 sites on google for are of course pool tables and ques.

I will buy a few domains and test them to see how many hyphens google puts up with- I will post the results here. Please Post if you guys have any ideas how I can isolate conditions for this experiment to get the results for hyphens-

Thanks
Derek

[minstrel]

Originally Posted by LLFitness_Derek

Since this topic can be very debated and has no proof of solution yet, can I get some ideas thrown at me on how to mix the words "pool tables" and "ques" into a domain name-

I was thinking www.pooltables-and-ques.com

The two keywords I want to rank in the top 3 sites on google for are of course pool tables and ques.

For starters, I don't think many people are going to be searching for anything with "ques" in the term -- I think you mean, "cues", don't you, as in "pool cue"?

I also doubt that using "pooltable" will be a lot of help unless someone types that in as a single word.

I'd also add that you may be further ahead to use anchor text in backlinks and on-page text for these keywords than messing with hyphens -- for one thing, as cbp-with-editor-hat said, it tends to look spammy, not only to DMOZ editors but to potential customers.

[whipnet]

I highly doubt Google would penalized a registered TLD (top level domain)

Just to avoid confusion, a top level domain is .com or .net or .org etc.

Not a name you register.

[minstrel]

whipnet, I'm not trying to be a sh*t-disturber or self-appointed sheriff here but this forum is already VERY slow loading on a rurual dial-up (my only choice so far) and unnecessary graphics make it even slower. See the forum rules link at the bottom of the page:

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[LLFitness_Derek]

Wow it must be early- I’m only on my first cup of coffee. Yes I did mean pool cues. How much confidence can I have for ranking well with both keywords if only one is in my domain name. I try to use anchored text backlinks for all of my links. Pool ques has some tough competition though- Pool tables is of course our biggest profit per sell, but pool ques will be easier to sell.

I will probably put pool tables in the domain name and just work pool cues in my text on the page. (just as you said)

Originally Posted by whipnet

Just to avoid confusion, a top level domain is .com or .net or .org etc.

Not a name you register.

Complete ICANN definition of the term TDLs:
http://www.icann.org/tlds/

I hope this helps.

[bhartzer]

I was thinking www.pooltables-and-ques.com

pooltables-and-ques.com would be fine, as well as pooltables-and-cues.com. I haven't been shown any proof that having more than two hyphens in a domain name brings a penalty, but I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't raise a red flag to the search engines that says, "Hey, look at me! I'm a spammer!".

By having more than two hyphens in your domain name you're raising a red flag and asking them to scrutinize your website further. Do you really want that?

Besides, having more than two hyphens in your domain name isn't very "brandable".

[voasi]

Derek,

Do you feel that having your keywords hyphened out in your domain name is going to help your site rank higher within the SERPS? Remember that having keywords in domain name is a very...very small portion (if at all anymore) to the ranking algo's for the various SEs. What matters most, for now, is quality of incoming links and the anchor text used.

I think bhartzer brings up a good point. Why not make it a more brandable phrase. The competition is already very strong for you main keyword phrase, so go after a more applicable domain name you can brand. I have read several marketing studies showing branding is more conclusive way to garner strong, potential buying consumers.

[bou78]

Do you feel that having your keywords hyphened out in your domain name is going to help your site rank higher within the SERPS?

To some extent i beleive it "was" used to justify a position or two on search engines, but i feel that google is changing its formula to lessen its relevance. An example to back this up is my massage site http://www.massageking.com - It ranks first on Google for keyterms "Portable massage table, portable massage tables, and massage cds" - Yahoo #1 for Massage Tables

It wont hurt to have the keyterms in my title just in case it does make a percent of a difference.

I have read several marketing studies showing branding is more conclusive way to garner strong, potential buying consumers.

From our studies with massageking.com - 90% of our traffic actually comes from Search Engines. A brandable name is always a great idea for a well advertised site or for returning customers to remember the url. Ex. Ebay - They have commercials, magazine promotions, etc. I doubt anyone goes to google and searches for ebay to go to ebays site. This is a great example of a brandable name.

Now if we do not advertise with commercials, do you believe that a brandable name will have relevance over a search engine branded name? I would like to hear some opinions because everything is still up in the air. The site is completely coded, just needs a domain name and some SEO work done here and there.

[whipnet]

Complete ICANN definition of the term TDLs:
http://www.icann.org/tlds/

This confirms what I said.

The Internet's domain-name system (DNS) allows users to refer to web sites and other resources using easier-to-remember domain names (such as "www.icann.org") rather than the all-numeric IP addresses (such as "192.0.34.65") assigned to each computer on the Internet. Each domain name is made up of a series of character strings (called "labels") separated by dots. The right-most label in a domain name is referred to as its "top-level domain" (TLD).

The DNS forms a tree-like hierarchy. Each TLD includes many second-level domains (such as "icann" in "www.icann.org"); each second-level domain can include a number of third-level domains ("www" in "www.icann.org"), and so on.

You purchase 2nd level domains.

[whipnet]

whipnet, I'm not trying to be a sh*t-disturber or self-appointed sheriff here but this forum is already VERY slow loading on a rurual dial-up (my only choice so far) and unnecessary graphics make it even slower. See the forum rules link at the bottom of the page:

Thank you for pointing this out to me Minstrel. :)

Originally Posted by whipnet

This confirms what I said.

Hmmm...Never disagreed with you. Was just offering a proper resource for complete definition. My link to the resource was sufficient, there was no need to quote the page for edification.

[whipnet]

You beat me to a repost. After reading, it did sound harsh. Sorry cpw3.

I'm a face to face person and know better to stay away from forums. :)

I just didn't want anyone thinking a xyz .com would rank higher than xyz .net

[voasi]

I doubt anyone goes to google and searches for ebay to go to ebays site.

Doubting and knowing are 2 different things. (wink)

Small sample taken from Overture's Keyword Selector tool which shows the amount of times keywords were searched on Yahoo!'s network and partners:

11247788 ebay
756416 ebay motor
634393 ebay summary
274144 ebay auction
192504 ebay selling
178862 ebay buying

Branding for search engines is not to be disregarded IMO. :)