Thoughts about the PR Economy

[swampdeer]

These are some thoughts I've had recently after reading some posts about "Limited PR Theory" and the doubling of the Google index.

With the recent rise in importance of inbound links in the latest Google algorithms webmasters have begun enormous link building campaigns, adding link directories to their sites, gaining reciprocal and triangular links etc. I've been thinking more and more about how PR has become a virtual commodity which has a real monetary value. If you look at the money markets, you find that traders can make millions of dollars on minor fluctuations in prices between different currencies. If this theory is applied to the economy of PR then it is plain to see that due to the irregular updates to PR a company could exploit the same principle e.g.

Firstly you buy links to your site (PR5) before a PR update.

Once the PR has risen (e.g to PR8), you cancel the links and sell sell sell preferably on 3 month or longer contracts, selling PR8 links to any takers until the next PR update where the site will fall again.

Link exchanging can also be affected by the same factors, ie you buy a couple of months worth of links, then when your PR has risen to 6, 7 or 8 you cancel the incoming links and trade links as fast as possible with PR6+ sites. By doing this in cycles you can easily increase your PR without having to pay too much.

Of course there may be people doing this already, but I've never seen it discussed and I'm sure that there are other ramifications such as, if you continue the analogy with the money markets, then Google has a license to print money, cause PR inflation etc etc.

Swampdeer
http://www.kamperhire.co.uk
http://www.youclaim.co.uk

[cbp]

You are assuming that PR is actually important for ranking...

CBP

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by swampdeer

With the recent rise in importance of inbound links in the latest Google algorithms webmasters have begun enormous link building campaigns, adding link directories to their sites, gaining reciprocal and triangular links etc. I've been thinking more and more about how PR has become a virtual commodity which has a real monetary value.

First off, swampdeer, welcome to WPW Discussion Forums.

Second, PR does not have much bearing, if at all, compared with inbound links to your website. For instance, I rank, in search result placement, above my competitors for popular generic keywords, yet their sites have both higher PR than my website & even have PPC ads for those same keywords, which I do not.

Money helps, but is not required to play the SEO game - such as the game of life itself.

I hope this helps.

Sincerely,
Max

[swampdeer]

I agree that PR has less importance at the moment, but people would still rather have their inbound link text coming from a PR8 site than a PR2 site.

It was just something I've been mulling around in my mind. I'd be interested to know if anyone is exploiting PR in this way though.

Thanks for your replies.

Swampdeer
http://www.kamperhire.co.uk
http://www.youclaim.co.uk

[greeneagle]

cbp:

"You are assuming that PR is actually important for ranking..."
__________

cbp
I have never seen a sight improve or fall in PR without SERPs following.

Is there really any room for "assumptions" therre?

Ken

[nipplecharms1]

Ok batman, riddle me this....

I have taken the last day to catch up on some of these posts in the different forums. Some say PR is vital, some inbound links, some say hold everyone hostage and make them buy your stuff. (Ok, no one said that but seeing if you were paying attention.)

How do I, with a site that is a PR0 (online for about a month or so), talk sites into a link exchange with my site? We have begged, borrowed and stole to get links. A few PR1-2 sites have felt sorry and provided links.

Our site is sorta for the adult audience. So if you click on our link, fore warned. We sell body jewelry and most of them are modeled. That said we have had a hard time even in our genre.

I saw what SWAPDEER said about buying links. Other than we do not have the budget, my luck is I will get hooked up with someone that is just about to get banned by "Der GoogleBot"!

I did go the SEO freelance route on a different site I ran... got 3 pages from that site banned. I drank a lot that month.

Anyway, focus... sorry. If anyone has any thoughts on this, obtaining higher PR back links to a PR0 (new site), I am all ears!

GREENEAGLE - What do you mean here
"cbp
I have never seen a sight improve or fall in PR without SERPs following." SERP?

As always, thanks in advance!

Michael

[sfowler]

Start with directories. There are a number that take adult sites. This will at least get you off the floor.

[nipplecharms1]

Originally Posted by sfowler

Start with directories. There are a number that take adult sites. This will at least get you off the floor.

I guess i look them up on google? But i do not want to be catgorized with adult porn sites either. I am not in the market to trade human flesh... just to accessorize it! (sorry for the pun!)

Any other suggestions are welcome. And any pointers would be helpful also.

m

[sfowler]

You could take a look here: http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=21900

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by nipplecharms1

Any other suggestions are welcome. And any pointers would be helpful also.

Welcome to WPW Discussion Forums, nipplecharms1!

My first thought is to write articles on the "Downsides To Permanent Body Piercing", being sure to post a link to your site within the article "about the author" signature. There are many such high PR article submission sites, such as:

http://EzineArticles.com

Good luck - work smart not hard - unlike the objects of your wares. (smiling)

Cheers!
Max

[nipplecharms1]

Originally Posted by Maximum-Beauty.com

My first thought is to write articles on the "Downsides To Permanent Body Piercing", being sure to post a link to your site within the article "about the author" signature. There are many such high PR article submission sites, such as:

http://EzineArticles.com

Good luck - work smart not hard - unlike the objects of your wares. (smiling)

Cheers!
Max

So you mean to write the article and then have it published on these sites? Ok, great idea. Thx Max.

Also SFOWLER - great re-post and thanks. Looks as tho I have my work cut out for me just adding to these links!

Many thanks so far.

michael

[Firwefly]

The validity of swampdeer's idea of trading PR doesn't depend on whether or not PR has an intrinsic value, merely on whether some others perceive it to have.

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by eSolutionsWork

The validity of swampdeer's idea of trading PR doesn't depend on whether or not PR has an intrinsic value, merely on whether some others perceive it to have.

Hi eSolutionsWork!

I do see your point on this issue of perception. Sometimes it weighs in more value than reality, thus becoming reality for some or many.

Cheers!
Max

[greeneagle]

nipplecharms1,

The other advice looks pretty savvy - but you hopefully know that it is better to moniter your SERPs than it is check "green bar" public PR!!!! Updates are almost daily there as opposed to quarterly!

Ken

[nipplecharms1]

Originally Posted by greeneagle

nipplecharms1,

The other advice looks pretty savvy - but you hopefully know that it is better to monitor your SERPs than it is check "green bar" public PR!!!! Updates are almost daily there as opposed to quarterly!

Ken

Dear Ken,

I do not have the Rosetta stone to any of your comments here. What advice is savvy?
SERP? Search engine rebound politeness?
"Green bar"? = A Ralph Nader establishment (US folks might get this one) Public PR?

What updates are done daily?

My GOD I have not struggled with a language in 20 years... but I am now!

Ok, now I do feel like an idiot! :()

m

[sfowler]

It means that your position in the Search Engine Results is more important than the PR value shown by the Google toolbar.

Let's put it into English:
Get links
Get more links
Get even more links
Make sure that your site is easy to navigate. Make sure it has what people are looking for.
Get enough text on your pages for the Search Engines to index.

[greeneagle]

Thanks sfowler.. never had a German Languange Primary do an English Translation for me before...
You are right on... but instead of anyone having to search a crossthread reference, I am going to post it in this thread also... forgive me if it peeves anyone, but this is going to be a predominant question ensuant to the marked increase in height for the "high jump" bar google just re-demarked:

Bleed your fingers here first:
http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=21900
Simon has done quite a bit of work and has most categorized and posted on his website.

Secondly go here to study News Release Writing:
http://www.prwebdirect.com/pressreleasetips.php

Thirdly go here for a list of News Release Agencies and Article Submission Sites (many are Free):
http://www.webworkshop.net/seoforum/...pic.php?t=3905

There is enough value in these links to smear it around a little... I hope.

Good Luck
Ken

[incrediblehelp]

nipples,

Writing articles is great, but starting a forum or blog on your website's subject will give you many IBL's without you having to chase to many websites down. Remember these ideas are only great if you give them time. Forums like WebProWorld and other were not built over night.

Of course I am trying to view your site and it would help if it loaded. It seems to be done now.

[damarzee]

In all the conversation about trading links with high PR sites, I often get confused when approached by a site that wants to entice me to trade links with their PR6 site, but the actual page where my link will be placed is a PR3 or less.

Which of these values does Google credit?..., the actual page I get listed on or the rank of the sites main page?

[cbp]

PR is per page, not per site. The PR of the page is the one that counts.

CBP

[kservik]

Originally Posted by nipplecharms1

How do I, with a site that is a PR0 (online for about a month or so), talk sites into a link exchange with my site? We have begged, borrowed and stole to get links. A few PR1-2 sites have felt sorry and provided links.

First of all, get a working host. Your site didnt load when I tried it now. If Google gets the same experience, your site will never rank.

[incrediblehelp]

Originally Posted by damarzee

In all the conversation about trading links with high PR sites, I often get confused when approached by a site that wants to entice me to trade links with their PR6 site, but the actual page where my link will be placed is a PR3 or less.

Which of these values does Google credit?..., the actual page I get listed on or the rank of the sites main page?

You dont have to trade. Just build out quality websites that people will link to for free or because they find your website interesting or useful.

[rivux]

I think people are missing the point of the post. It wasn't whether PR was important for sales, or for rankings or for anything other then selling links. In which case yes its very important and some people/companies are doing just as you describe swampdeer.

The easiest way is with a dmoz and yahoo listing, it gives you a quick boost (usually a 5 or 6 with just those two links) and then you can start selling links on your site (long term contracts are the best). You can then repeat again and continue to rake in the money. It isn't what I would call a sustainable business model but you take advantage of whatever is available to you and that means being flexible and changing or trying new things as the world around you changes.

The downside to this model is that your turnover is tied directly to Googles updating schedule, which can make things rather painful when they decide to wait 4 months between updates. You have to build up a lot of inventory (new sites waiting for PR) and then sell like mad once the update has occured.

In the end PR is as important as the person who wants to pay for it. Just because some people think its not an important number thats fine, don't sell to them. But trust me, there are thousands and thousands of people out there who live and die by PR, so there is a market, you just have to find it.

A side note, if you are not interested in finding advertisers for each of the sites. You can just sell the site itself, a PR5 dmoz listed site goes for about $500-$600 right now.

[sfowler]

Youz could make that per month just renting out the links.

[rivux]

Originally Posted by sfowler

Youz could make that per month just renting out the links.

I agree, but its much easier to find a buyer for 1 site then it is to find 5-10 buyers for links. Especially when you have dozens of sites all on the same C class and you are unable to sell links on multiple sites to the same client.

If you are lucky you can find clients who don't care and you can package them all together but it is a fairly rare occurence, so you need to be flexible and sell what you can.

As well, managing advertisers takes away from your time of building new sites, some people would prefer to not have to deal with 40-50 advertisers each month so they go the route of building and selling. It all depends on what your strengths and goals are.

[swampdeer]

Thanks rivux for returning to the point of the post.

I guess all the companies which are advertising text links for sale are exploiting this to some extent. And I know that every time a PR update comes along, I see it as a chance to search out some more incoming links and link text etc for the sites that I look after.

I think the reason I posted my thoughts was to see if anyone else had done or heard of a published study on the economic model of PR in Google and its similarities to other models such as the money markets and even virtual currencies in online games etc.

[rivux]

In terms of comparisons to other markets, its difficult because of the imaginery aspects of the PR economy. SearchKing has already found out that PR is completely in the hands of Google, which means you are trading on something that you have no control over, is proprietary and outside of a few select people (webmasters) has no value.

Google could (and I believe should) remove PR from the public arena and keep it private like they do with the hundreds (thousands?) of other factors that go into ranking a web page. There is no other market (that i know of) that trades on a trademark of another company, so comparing to any other market is nearly impossible.

But the topic has gotten me thinking about capturing and organizing a lot of the PR value data that I have. I will report back at a later date with some pretty graphs and charts :)

[nipplecharms1]

First of all, get a working host. Your site didnt load when I tried it now. If Google gets the same experience, your site will never rank.

Thanks. I did that at 10PM my time last night. Should take 24-48 hours for the switch to take place. I was a moron to go with "Chuck's Hosting" for $Cheap/mo. I wised up quickly.

Thanks everyone for your comments. I will take a little hiatus from link building/e-letter writing until my freaking site is back up.

Maybe God is telling me something.... Jewelry for Christ???? lol

Thanks all, and I will be back for more great ideas.

Michael

[wavedancing]

Originally Posted by swampdeer

I guess all the companies which are advertising text links for sale are exploiting this to some extent. And I know that every time a PR update comes along, I see it as a chance to search out some more incoming links and link text etc for the sites that I look after.

You are right swampdeer. PR is important. That's why some people pay for text links.

To be clear, I agree PR for a page is not a dominant factor for SERP. You can see page with PR0 beat pages with PR4 for certain keywords. However, PR is important for a site. A site with a high PR will be crawled more often.