Confused about Ranking

busy1 · #1 (**permalink**) 11-17-2003, 09:27 PM

Hi everyone,
I get confused on the term ranking. I have a 5 on the little google toolbar meter, which I hear isn't really my true ranking.
Can anyone tell me how to determine my true rank? How do I find out how many keywords I am listed for on Google besides typing all of them in manually.
Also could anyone take a look at my site and tell me how I could improve my SEO.
I appreciate your understanding, I am new to this SEO stuff.
Thanks,
Lynn
http://www.thegifts2give.com

minstrel · #2 (**permalink**) 11-17-2003, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by busy1

I get confused on the term ranking. I have a 5 on the little google toolbar meter, which I hear isn't really my true ranking. Can anyone tell me how to determine my true rank?

It's not that it isn't your "true ranking" per se. Googles PageRank is a measure of "importance" of a page defined according to a formula which is known fully only to Google but has something to do with links pointing to that page (there are numerous threads in these forums about PR). If the Google toolbar shows a 5, it means that your PR is somewhere between 5.0000 and 5.9999. Exactly what value your page has probably doesn't really matter since other than increasing links to you from high PR sites there's not a lot you can do to change that.

It is also said that the PR scale (0-10) is not a linear or straight line scale but rather logarithmic or exponential - of you've forgotten high school or college math (which most of us do after a few years out in the world), this means that it is easier to go from 0 to 1 than 1 to 2, harder still from 2 to 3 or 3 to 4, etc.

Finally, you need to distinguish between PR and how high your site shows up in search listings for various keywords, because in some cases, a low PR site may show up earlier than a high PR site for one or more keywords... which brings us to your second question:

Quote:

How do I find out how many keywords I am listed for on Google besides typing all of them in manually.

I don't know another way...

cbp · #3 (**permalink**) 11-17-2003, 10:25 PM

The 5 on the toolbar is your PageRank(TM). Is is a mathematical measure of:

1) The number of links to your page (PR is based per page, not per site)
2) The PageRank of the pages that the links are from
3) The number of links that are on the page that the link is from
4) If Google knows about the link (the page is in Google index) and if the link is spiderable (eg not javascript)

PR is only one of >100 things that go into the ranking of a page in the search results.

The PR on the toolbar is also only an estimate - PR is actually on a log scale - so a PR 5 could be 5.00001 (really close to a 4.9999 = PR4), but a long way from 5.9999.

The PR on the toolbar is also no exactly accurate, as its behind the internal PR updates that Googles does - they appear to be updating publically available PR every month or so for the last few months.

To find how you rank for a keyword(s) - go to www.google.com/ie (change preferences to 100 per page) and look for your site

CBP

cbp · #4 (**permalink**) 11-17-2003, 10:26 PM

Hey minstrel ... you bet me too it ...

CBP

minstrel · #5 (**permalink**) 11-17-2003, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbp

Hey minstrel ... you beat me to it

Sorry, cbp. My son has the TV on so I couldn't hear you typing... :-)

matauri · #6 (**permalink**) 11-18-2003, 12:05 AM

The verdict on this ranking system has the jury still out in this camp.

I have many sites which have a PR of between 2-5, and yet most of them including my business site are only listed on Google, and maybe a couple of others, with maybe 2-3 reciprocal links from low PR sites.

I have done very little in the listing links anywhere. Yet, a friend who also has a business site & is listed with more places than I has a PR of 0.

The only thing I can put my PR down to is that on all my other sites (internal) I have links directing people around other sections of my domain. Which makes me wonder....if I put links on all 3000+ pages within my domain...will I get a PR 10??? Could it be a matter of just promote thyself?

It's all a bit dodgy if ya ask me ! :-)

Cindy

minstrel · #7 (**permalink**) 11-18-2003, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matauri

The verdict on this ranking system has the jury still out in this camp. (snip) if I put links on all 3000+ pages within my domain...will I get a PR 10??? Could it be a matter of just promote thyself? It's all a bit dodgy if ya ask me !

I think it seems dodgy because we aren't supposed to know exactly how it's done - otherwise we'd all be out there subverting it :-)

The other question is - even if you did manage to get a PR10 with that or any other method, would it guarantee a #1-2 place in the search engine results? One problem is that the question itself is meaningless unless you add "for keyword X"... but in any case the answer is probably "no".

janeth · #8 (**permalink**) 11-18-2003, 01:33 AM

I would think if you did it and linked all your pages back to your home page and then had a couple of out side links you could probley get around a pr6.

Then if you used your key words in your links you could then get ranked for those key words.

If you have 10,000 pages I would give it a try.

matauri · #9 (**permalink**) 11-18-2003, 02:36 AM

This is my point exactly Dave. For my primary keywords I am #10 of 569,000 results in google.au. So how did I get there? It had to be internal links. There can be no other answer.

So it is all pretty irrelevent in the end. If I can get to 1/569,000 ahead of some pretty aweful sites ahead of me, then I am happy. With no running around chasing my tail with reciprocal links etc. And when it boils down to it, Google is spidering everything on the net anyway, so if your listed with them high, your in a pretty good position overall. Leaves me more time to concentrate on clients instead of marketing.

I still say that links,etc, etc, don't make up for content containing the right keywords.

Just my opinion :-)

Cindy

minstrel · #10 (**permalink**) 11-18-2003, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matauri

If I can get to 10/569,000 ahead of some pretty awful sites ahead of me, then I am happy. With no running around chasing my tail with reciprocal links etc... Leaves me more time to concentrate on clients instead of marketing.

I think that's dead on - and focusing on content and clients instead of chasing Google points is a lot easier on your sanity too.

rlrouse · #11 (**permalink**) 11-18-2003, 10:30 AM

PageRank has little affect on search engine rankings (SERPS) for a given keyword or keyphrase.

The best optimized page will almost always rank the highest regardless of PR. And the most important part of that optimization is getting lots of links with great link anchor text using the target keywords.

This is even more effective when the keywords are also used in the page title and liberally near the top of the page.