Could a "link trading management" site cause a Goo

[kissels]

I recently created a website for a friend (justformeworld.com) and am now at the point where I am giving her some pointers on how to increase her SE rankings (especially on Google) and to market it in general. Her main task right now is to find complimentary sites in her target market with decent PR (I told her 4/10 or better) and decent Alexa ranking and to request link exchanges with them.

In her efforts, she encountered a site with which she would like to exchange links, but they told her that they would only be willing to exchange links through a company called "links4trade.com." I checked the site out and one of the first things they state is that they are not a link farm. I'm wondering, if they have to state this right up front, do they operate in such a way that they could be interpreted by the Google gods as a link farm or something similar and could using this "link trading management" site actually cause her site to eventually be completely banned by Google? Any insights into using these types of companies/sites is much appreciated.

Thanks,
Kim

[rlrouse]

I don't use such sites and never recommend them. The reasons have been discussed in these forums many times.

IMO any webmaster who involves a third party in the link exchange process is playing with fire, and while the house may never burn down the odds of it eventually happening are much greater than average.

[google junky]

I agree with rlrouse 100% on this one. It's also funny that a site would have to add "Links4Trade is not a link farm...." to their description of who they are. That would be like an Online Shop saying "We don't rip people off" . Hmm , wonder why they think they had to say that? :)

If the site you are interested in won't comply with the way you do business then you can only move on to someone else. I would send an email to the site to let them decide how they would like to proceed also. They may decide it's in their best interest to go ahead and link to your site.

[kissels]

Thanks for your input; this is pretty much what I figured. I have one last Q regarding link exchange. Solely in terms of a new site with no PR obtaining a decent one... Given two sites with similar traffic (Alexa) rankings and PR 4/10 or better, which would help to get you a good PR: #1 a large shopping mall site with a links "section" consisting of 3 or 4 pages with HUNDREDS of links for just about anything or #2 a smaller more specific retail site with a links page consisting of fewer more quality links?

Here's my thinking... the large site would probably update more often, so it would be visited by Google more often and might help you attain a PR more quickly, but you probably wouldn't see much in actual user click-through traffic being "lost" among the hundreds of links. Or is it that the smaller site would have more quality links with higher PR, even though the number would be fewer, so it might take longer to get your initial PR posted, but it would be higher? 6 in one hand, half-dozen in the other?

It's amazing how much you find out you don't know when you try to impart your knowledge to others! Thanks for taking the time....

[google junky]

Keep in mind that this is just my opinion. Pay no attention to PR. You want links from all sites whether they are low or high PR. I honestly think that PR watching is a waste of time. I have clients site that is #1 for it's main keyword phrase in it's industry and an extremely competitive phrase. They are PR 4 and the big boys that they beat out are PR7. the PR 7 isn't in the top 20. so, go figure why I don't watch PR.
It's all about links in the end, Considering you have all your keyword issues in line on the site and where they should be.

. Start your list of people to contact who have sites related to your type of content. You can never have too may links from other people if the content compliments your site.
. Then if you still need more links go to sites that are a little off topic.

I'm sure I didn't give a full enough explanation but I hope this helped

[Blackicicle]

Links4Trade is pointless! Anything that you can do with them you can do on your own site, the whole point of link exchanges is that you link to, and get links from other sites.

With L4Trtade, all the links that you get will be coming from links4trade.com and all the links that you give will be coming from the same site (links4trade.com).

For example if you exchange links with 400 sites, naturally you would expect to get 400 links from different sites, but with these guys all 400 links will be coming to your site from the url link4trade.com, why not just make 400 pages on your server (which you have the power to optimize) and link them to your main page.

Just my 2,543,872 cents!

[hal]

Hi Kim,

I agree with the above responses. But, just 'cause sometimes I get an ornery streak, today I took a different route. I tried an experiment. Your friend's emphasis is "personalized children's books." So, I went to Links4Trade and sought those out. I found two in their directory.

Next I went to Google and sought "personalized children's books." I went down the list, looking for these two sites. Neither one of them was in the top 100 at Google.

Man, that told me one whole heck of a lot right there. But, as I said, I'm feelin' a touch ornery. So I went back to Links4Trade and looked at their instructions.

My bet is that the site you wanted to link to wants you go through Links4Trade exclusively because they get $20 if you buy the $40 Affiliate Program. Or, they are in the Reselling Program, and are shooting for 20% to 50% revenue, or the Member Referral Program and want to skim a $5 bounty on you.

I guess Links4Trade says it's not a "link farm" because their listings contain editorial content.

So, getting heated up now, I looked at the source code on the page which had those two links, above. <title>Links4Trade</title> No <Description>. No <Keywords>. No attempt whatsoever to represent their listings. Maybe that's why I didn't find Links4Trade, either, when I was thumbing through Google's results.

Goin' full bore, now! Their first link is over 9,000 characters deep into their code. Translation -- it'll never be found by search engines, even if they did bother to look. In other words, the poor suckers who bought those positions are hiding, right there out in plain sight!

Kim, forget what they say about running in a darkened theater. Get out of your seat and run like hell for the Exit, kid!

Hal

[google junky]

I just wanted to say I loved your post Hal. That was a super in-depth answer to Kissels question. To the point and right on the money.

[kissels]

Excellent input from all of you on both subjects, Links4Trade and the PR issue, especially you Hal. Much appreciated. Thank you.

[DrTandem1]

Linking schemes are all suspect for many of the reasons already mentioned. They prey upon the ill-informed and those that do not know how to administer their site once it's been built. This is probably why the other site told you to go to the linking firm.

Visit your potential linking partners and make sure they have the proper qualities before you link to them. Linking to a "link-farm" is a sure way to become penalized.

[kissels]

I was actually already aware that Google penalizes sites that use link farms; this Links4Trade.com's up-front mention of not being a link farm is, in fact, what made me suspicious of their service in the first place and, hence, the reason for my original query. I hadn't encountered one of these 3rd party "services" until my friend asked me about using them for obtaining links for her own new site. For my own site, I have always hand-selected sites which to exchange links or personally reviewed sites that request link exchange with me; this is how I recommended she also build her links page. But nevertheless, thank you for you input as well Dr.

[Intensity]

Pay no attention to PR. You want links from all sites whether they are low or high PR. I honestly think that PR watching is a waste of time.

Would you also agree to your statement with a site that is ranked PR0? I started my 'serious' Backlink campaign and SEO keyword terms 3 months ago.

Luckily right after the LAST PR update and have submitted link exchange requests to very large amount of quality websites with PR4 or higher only.

PR has less substance whenever you have established a decent PR, I agree. However in my situation, I am screaming out for it. Many link partners have a minimum requirements in order to get their backlink.

So I only submit to PR4's and higher, with a less success rate, however I will save the denied link change request and when I do get to that PR4 status I am going to resubmit until I do get accepted.

In the long term, this should hopefully turn out to be a win win situation.

My motto is that you should always submit to "Quality, related, < 30 links per page, (give or take)".

With some research I also have analysed and understood that a PR4 site with 30 links will be Far, far more effective than a PR3 with 30 links?

[google junky]

Hello intensity,

Yes, I don't see a problem linking with PR0 sites also.
So far I haven't seen any proof that PR has a major effect as much as having many quality relevant links.
Since PR doesn't seem to matter, I would then view the many backlinks as "word of mouth" links. If they don't find you for your key search words then you can always have that backdoor for persons who didn't realize you existed. Also who is to say that the sites you decide to pass up won't be the big boys later. It could be an opportunity lost if you didn't get in early.

PRO or PR7, It's all the same to me.

[Intensity]

True.

I need to higher someone to do this linking stuff. I can already envision my future (the rest of my life).... linking...linking...linking...