h1 tags

[gilkesy]

Hi all

I have read before (I think) that Google puts less emphasis on keywords within H1 heading tags.

This is unfortunate as I use h1 tags for the main heading of my pages (obviously enough)

Should I reconsider this strategy?

My site is at http://www.mrlinsurance.co.uk

Any thoughts?

[cbp]

Where did you read that? Its not true.

CBP

[gilkesy]

I'm sure I read it in a forum like this one.

I guess there are all sorts of truths, half-truths, and untruths bandied around in forums.

Oh well, I'm still looking for the "smoking-gun" which is affecting my Google ranking (i rank well with all other engines).

Thnaks for the quick response by the way.

[iamrussell]

I think it's the complete opposite...

[rocos]

I haven't seen this.

[google junky]

gilkesy,

I maintain a website that is #1 on google for the top keyphrase in it's area. Since the site was doing so well I decided to play with the text titles of sidepages to see what they would do on google.

Originally the title text was using keywords wrapped in font and bold tags. The title showed up on google exactly the way it needed to be.

Then I used an H1 tag to replace the way it was. Google skipped right over the text in the H1 tag. I let this go for 2 months and still it was skipped over. Since then it has been changed back to using font tags and bold. Naturally, the beginning title and description I placed after it are the way they should be again.


This is my experience with Header tags and will never use them again. At least not for anything important like a title at the beginning of a page.

[gilkesy]

So what youre saying is that Google has ignored text within the h1 tags, contrary to what the other posters in this thread have stated.

Anyone?

[cbp]

On all my sites/pages that rank numero uno for their keyword(s) have the keywords in the H1 tags.

CBP

[janeth]

You can get a #1 ranking with out using <h> tags. So that would not prove anything.

But google junky has come close to testing it. Has anyone done any test lately to see if <h> tags carry more weight. I know they use to but do they now?

[cbp]

I don't think its a matter of having H1 tags or not or the weighting that SE's put on them.

SE's need to determine relevance - keywords in H1 tags are just part of the mix for helping determining that.

Besides, we are supposed to be building sites for visitors and not SE's, and the H tags are there for a reason...

Having said that, it would not surprise me if Google et al have decreasd the weighting of them due to abuse (just like they did with the alt tags on images). I am not going to stop using them, but just make sure I use them for what they are desgined for.

CBP

[janeth]

Originally Posted by cbp

I don't think its a matter of having H1 tags or not or the weighting that SE's put on them.

But I think it was the question we started out with and the reason for my question.

Originally Posted by cbp

SE's need to determine relevance - keywords in H1 tags are just part of the mix for helping determining that.

Yes and that was the reason for the question how much of the mix. (-;

Originally Posted by cbp

Besides, we are supposed to be building sites for visitors and not SE's, and the H tags are there for a reason...

In a perfect world this would be correct. But getting found is just as important as having a nice site. So if a couple changes on the site does not mess with the look but helps you get found.

Originally Posted by cbp

Having said that, it would not surprise me if Google et al have decreasd the weighting of them due to abuse (just like they did with the alt tags on images). I am not going to stop using them, but just make sure I use them for what they are desgined for.

CBP

There are other methods we can use to get the same effect as the <h> tags so if Google is no longer using the <h> tags neither will I. (-;

[DrTandem1]

I have never paid attention to using H1 tags with regards to the search engines. I have had sites with and without such tags and both do fine.

As a matter of fact, if it doesn't look good to a visitor, I don't use it regardless of the search engine reprocussions, mainly because I don't think there are any.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by DrTandem1

As a matter of fact, if it doesn't look good to a visitor, I don't use it regardless of the search engine reprocussions, mainly because I don't think there are any.

I agree 100% but what I was saying, is if you can make the site look just as good and make it good for the search engines why would you not ?

[DrTandem1]

I wasn't arguing, I was agreeing.

[rlrouse]

IMO header tags fall into the "tiebreaker" category. They're one of many factors that help, but not a great deal.

[stevealmond]

Originally Posted by rlrouse

IMO header tags fall into the "tiebreaker" category. They're one of many factors that help, but not a great deal.

Exactly, get your site into the top ten by quality content and then fine tune with H-tags, etc.

Steve

[Artyom]

Originally Posted by DrTandem1

As a matter of fact, if it doesn't look good to a visitor, I don't use it regardless of the search engine reprocussions, mainly because I don't think there are any.

Btw, actually it's about using <h1...4>, not just <h1>, so if it looks bad for your site layout simply decrease font size with h2...4 or use stysheet.

I agree that <h> tag isn't so important to think hard about, just use it if it suites for your site design.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by DrTandem1

I wasn't arguing, I was agreeing.

Sorry (-:

[quote-"rlrouse"]IMO header tags fall into the "tiebreaker" category. They're one of many factors that help, but not a great deal.[/quote]

Have you done any test latley to see if Google still puts any wait on them?


[quote-"Artyom"]Btw, actually it's about using <h1...4>, not just <h1>, so if it looks bad for your site layout simply decrease font size with h2...4 or use stysheet. [/quote]

I would have to add more text to use that many <h> tags. (-:



My website was at number 15 for website design it droped to # 25 and has been sitting there for about a week now.

I just went in and removed all <h> tags and also removed website design from the top of the page.

I will give it a couple days and see which way it moves.

[tceperry]

I'm so glad this is here. I just had my site evaluated by a couple of pro's. They both said that my site was being penalized (in Google) because I didn't use any h tags. I now understand what they are, and I have added an h1 title and code on some pages, but I'm still not sure if any robots actually require them, of if it is just a "nicety".

Anybody have a feel for specific robots looking for the h headers?

[DrTandem1]

tceperry--

No site is penalized for the use or non-use of any H tag. Looking at your Home page, I think it is lacking content. You are not penalized for this, either. However, your site has little text to index:

The Cutting Edge 4843 North Ridge Road, Perry, Ohio 44081
Phone: 800-962-2376 (440-259-2581) Fax: 800-453-2441 (440-259-2580)
Email: sales@cuttingedgeinc.com

Proof of this is in doing a search for "legend plates" minus the qutoes. Your site turns up at about #16 on Google. Here is what is important to note: It's not your Home page, but this one:

http://www.cuttingedgeinc.com/lp.htm

Notice the difference? Tons of text content. I think if you were to make a Home page similar to that page with your various products, your ranking in the results would improve. This has nothing to do with H tags or SEO. It is simply content.

[rlrouse]

Have you done any test latley to see if Google still puts any wait on them?

Not really. Most of my pages that use header tags are also SEO'd in others ways and a large percentage of them are in the top 10. I don't like tinkering when things are working well.

[tceperry]

Originally Posted by DrTandem1

Looking at your Home page, I think it is lacking content. You are not penalized for this, either. Notice the difference? Tons of text content. I think if you were to make a Home page similar to that page with your various products, your ranking in the results would improve.

Thanks soooooooo much for taking a look for me!

For overall ranking, is it important to have a "heavy" homepage? I have been concentrating on improving the individual product pages (to concentrate on one keyword group per page, rather than on lots of keywords for one page). Hence my looking into the h tags. Is this a mistake?

[DrTandem1]

Your Home page is the page where most visitors are usually directed after searching. Other pages may be more in line with the search request. Your page does not have to be heavy, but yours is essentially a "splash page."

I think if you focus on the visitor, you will have a Home page that gives them more information up-front, not just internal links.

That's my opinion.