How Do I Undo the Damage my SEO has Done?

bouquetdirectory · #1 (**permalink**) 11-12-2003, 03:56 PM

A Year Ago, I had a top 5 ranking on virtually every search engine possible under the term "candy bouquets". After several phone calls plummeting rankings, and virtually dropping off the face of the earth with Google - my biggest income generator, I've pulled my website from the services of the SEO and have decided to begin doing my own SEO work, which is what had gotten me to the top 5 in the first place.

My question is this: Can someone go into my home page ( http://www.acbouquet.com )and tell me which meta tags from my previous SEO company are useless and which ones I should keep?

There must be something wrong with the code or the way it is presented to have the rankings drop so badly. I have oodles of links to this home page, so I'm thinking its the meta tags. Any tips and suggestions on the site overall & how I can improve it would be helpful though.

Thanks!
Susan Allred
AC Bouquet
http://www.acbouquet.com

DylanW · #2 (**permalink**) 11-12-2003, 06:15 PM

Definitely drop these tags. This is what's commonly called "keyword stuffing"--repeating keywords in unnecessary tags that won't ever be displayed to the user. This can hurt you.

Code:

<meta NAME="VW96.objecttype" CONTENT="candy bouquets, gift baskets,
chocolate gifts, candy baskets, corporate gift baskets, gourmet gifts, candy
gifts, baby gift baskets, edible gifts, custom gift baskets, office gifts,
christmas gifts, chocolate bouquet, sugar free chocolate, gifts">
<meta NAME="DC.Title" CONTENT="candy bouquets, gift baskets, chocolate
gifts, candy baskets, corporate gift baskets">
<meta NAME="DC.Subject" CONTENT="candy bouquets, gift baskets, chocolate
gifts, candy baskets, corporate gift baskets, gourmet gifts, candy gifts,
baby gift baskets, edible gifts, custom gift baskets, office gifts,
christmas gifts, chocolate bouquet, sugar free chocolate, gifts">
<meta NAME="DC.Description" CONTENT="candy bouquets, gift baskets, chocolate
gifts, candy baskets, corporate gift baskets, gourmet gifts, candy gifts,
baby gift baskets, edible gifts, custom gift baskets, office gifts,
christmas gifts">

The main METAs you want to keep are your Keywords and Description tags. You might consider rewriting your Description META tag. Right now you've got a string of keywords in it, which probably won't give you a boost in the SE's, and isn't going to be very appealing to a potential customer when your page comes up in a query.

In addition, it would probably be a good idea to remove one or the other of your robots META tags (or both--SE's index pages and follow links by default, so unless you're preventing this, you don't really need the robots tag). Having two tags is redundant, although it probably wouldn't affect your rankings.

I'm not sure what the rest of the tags do. If you're using a WYSIWYG editor, they might be necessary for the editor, but I don't think they'll affect search engines one way or the other.

You shouldn't expect to be in the top 5 just by making changes to your META tags, but I think it can only help (at least the keyword stuffing thing). SEO isn't an exact science by any means (there are a lot of off-page factors that figure into rankings, such as link popularity), and you have to remember that everyone else's pages figure in to the equation as well. The landscape could be completely different than it was a year ago--more or different sites and different content.

And if you're ranking well on popular terms, you probably shouldn't hire an SEO--if it ain't broke, don't fix it. :)

janeth · #3 (**permalink**) 11-12-2003, 06:22 PM

It looks like your description is to long and your key words are to long. I would get rid of everything and set it up like I have below.
<head>
<title></title>
<meta NAME="Description" CONTENT="">
<meta NAME="Keywords" CONTENT="">

It looks like the way it is now it is pretty close to just being spam.

Your page rank is 0 which means you need some incoming links using your key words in your links.

bouquetdirectory · #4 (**permalink**) 11-12-2003, 06:24 PM

Thanks for taking the time to take a look at the page. I had a sinking feeling that those extra tags might be keyword stuffing. Those will be gone by this evening.

I'll be making those other changes as well. I think they are all good tips. I'd been out of The SEO game for so long I thought I might have just been outdated on some of the practices, but I think most of what worked back then still applies. It will just be a matter of 'tweaking'.

Do you think that all of the keyword stuffing would be the reason why Google won't list me? It's one thing to be on page 200, but I'm nowhere to be seen, and I've made it a point to manually submit my site every few weeks.

I've got a pretty good link popularity - about 1800 links to my site. And heaven knows that the site is relavent to candy bouquets - I've got several hundred candy bouquets that I offer.

Thanks again!

Suz

bouquetdirectory · #5 (**permalink**) 11-13-2003, 06:00 AM

OK, I spent some time this evening making all of the suggested changes to my meta tags. I'll give it another couple of weeks and see how things are going with the index page. If I begin to climb (or show up) on some of the search engines I'll know that was the problem.

Now, the fun begins - taking all of that junk out of my hundreds of interior pages :(

Thanks for your help! If you see anything else I can do - navigational, load time, graphics, etc. that I can improve upon, I'd be happy to hear them.

Susan Allred
AC Bouquet
http://www.acbouquet.com

apisdesign · #6 (**permalink**) 11-13-2003, 12:58 PM

Google doesn't read the META tags on your pages. To my understanding, at least, Google's page rank system completely ignores META tags. But, keyword stuffing within the META tags could hurt your pages as far as Google is concerned. I would definitely remove these and be sure to replace them with something more relevant as many other search engines do still look at META tags.

Increase the number of related sites that link to you. This is the primary factor in a high ranking page on Google. And be sure to link back to them, too.

As for removing all the crap from your hundreds of pages, Dreamweaver MX has a great multi-line search and replace - that's what I would use.

One final thing - I would be sure to submit your site to all the major search engines once you have finished fixing your META tags. This should help to undo any bans your site may have accumulated.

Good luck.

janeth · #7 (**permalink**) 11-13-2003, 01:22 PM

Hi apisdesign,
I have herd a lot of people say Google does not read meta tags.

We took the words that we knew no one would search for or have and used them in just our title tag. Our web site showed up in Google for those key words.

They where no where on the page other than in the title tag.

So I know for a fact Google does read the title tag. I have not checked the other tags yet. But I know they read the title tag.

apisdesign · #8 (**permalink**) 11-13-2003, 01:27 PM

Yes, you're correct.

But let me qualify META tags: anything that starts with '<META'. I don't count the <Title> tag as a META tag. There are important elements to have in your <Head> tag for sure, but META tags are not them.

Cheers.

Steven Glover · #9 (**permalink**) 11-13-2003, 01:39 PM

You are listed in google as to where and what keywords I havent checked.

To verify if a page is listed in Google just tinme in the full url to the search field.

Example: http://www.acbouquet.com

If google returns a result you are in their engine

tubunet · #10 (**permalink**) 11-13-2003, 01:47 PM

Google doesn't use Meta Tags in its ranking. Thats why it works so well and have proven to go above and beyond the rest.
It uses the ranking and popularity of your site to choose where it ranks on its system.

paco · #11 (**permalink**) 11-13-2003, 01:55 PM

There's an easier way to see if a page is in Google. Just use the command allinurl: like this "allinurl:www.yourwebsite.com" . This will bring all of your sites pages that have been indexed.

Pascal

primal · #12 (**permalink**) 11-13-2003, 02:19 PM

Hi Susan

I had a look at your meta tags and there are one or two bits and pieces I would omit and some I would add.

It is my understandeing that DC tags are mainly used for educational institution sites that are out there and don't necessarily enhance your chances of getting up the rankings. I never use them personally because the sites I build and market are not educational.

I used to offer SEO services some time ago until the whole thing got out of control and I would suggest trying this.

<title>Candy bouquets, gift baskets, chocolate gifts, candy baskets, corporate gift baskets</title>
<META NAME="MSSmartTagsPreventParsing"content="TRUE">
<META NAME="keywords" CONTENT="candy bouquets, gift baskets, chocolate gifts, candy baskets, corporate gift baskets, gourmet gifts, candy gifts, baby gift baskets, edible gifts, custom gift baskets, office gifts, christmas gifts, chocolate bouquet, sugar free chocolate, gifts">
<META NAME="description" CONTENT="candy bouquets, gift baskets, chocolate gifts, candy baskets, corporate gift baskets, gourmet gifts, candy gifts, baby gift baskets, edible gifts, custom gift baskets, office gifts, christmas gifts">
<META NAME="rating" CONTENT="General">
<META NAME="robots" content="All">
<META NAME="URL" "http://www.acbouquet.com">
<META NAME="revisit-after" CONTENT="30 days">
<META NAME="distribution" CONTENT="Global">
<META HTTP-EQUIV="window-target" CONTENT="_top">

Now I am not saying that you will get instant results, nor am I professing to know what is happening in the SEO world these days but I suspect at the moment you will wait anything up to 8 weeks or more to see reasonable results. Most Search engines will not guarantee a top position and with the major changes in the way sites are spidered it has become increasingly harder to secure and maintain top slots.

I have a number of UK shopping sites that are in various stages of incubation through the search engines. http://www.primal-media.com has been around for at least 3 years now and enjoyed good traffic (50,000 hits) until recently but like your site has slumped considerably. http://www.harnhmshopping.co.uk is new and is a struggle to find the right keywords to get a fair airing of the site. You may want to consider using some of the tools on SEO, there is a link to them on the primal site. Most of the tools are free to use and I find them useful for checking link popularity, link check site wide and submitting to the lesser known search engines as well as the more popular.

If you submit your site too often you could have been blocked for spamming the engines. I have robots spider my sites every 7 days because the content changes frequently. If you content is static and does not change that often then it is worth keeping the robot visits at 30 day intervals.

I hope this of some use to you and good luck.

Rob Brideson
rob.brideson@primal-media.com
http://www.primal-media.co.uk

bouquetdirectory · #13 (**permalink**) 11-13-2003, 02:25 PM

I checked out Google and am listed - just not under my main theme, which is candy bouquets.

I didn't know that Google no longer looks at meta tags. That's a nice little tidbit to know.

But I've always had my keywords in my title tag, so it should've shown up under them, right?

apsidesign mentioned linking back to the pages that link to me, why is this so important? I thought it was all about the number of links that are to my site. I have a few links to other websites, but I don't want to give my visitors a reason to leave either.

apisdesign · #14 (**permalink**) 11-13-2003, 02:54 PM

To qualify what I said about link exchanging:

Having quality, related websites linking to your site (and how they link to you is also very important) is crucial to your Page Rank from Google. But you must also link back to related sites, otherwise Google will interpret your site as a "dead end". But you certainly don't need to 'match' every incoming link with a corresponding outgoing link.

The real point here is that link pages (I like to call them 'Resources' or 'Partners') are very important to Google.

If you want to get linked under 'candy bouquets', try to get other sites to link to your site by linking the phrase 'candy bouquets' and having a little description of your business below the link. Simply linking your URL to your site is not as good of a link.

E.g.:

Candy Bouquets
High quality candy bouquets for your spouse, blah blah blah.

This would be a very nice link to your site. Google would recognize the link to your site, along with the fact that the words 'candy bouquet' contain the link.

Anyway, I fear I am starting to double-back on my words and repeat myself, so I'm going to stop now.

Cheers.

sudhani · #15 (**permalink**) 11-13-2003, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janeth

It looks like your description is to long and your key words are to long. I would get rid of everything and set it up like I have below.
<head>
<title></title>
<meta NAME="Description" CONTENT="">
<meta NAME="Keywords" CONTENT="">

It looks like the way it is now it is pretty close to just being spam.

Your page rank is 0 which means you need some incoming links using your key words in your links.

Susan,
Just make sure you are sticking to what Janeth says above. My experience also tells the same.

Treat each and every page a potential #1 and carefully select one or two key phrases (I always suggest one) and use them.

Title tag is the most important one on Google and good number of links will help us to have a good PR (but i dont think we "need" to link back to them) to have an edge over our competetors.

luvdavy · #16 (**permalink**) 11-13-2003, 04:13 PM

I thought I'd add my two cents to the discussion...

According to what my Google toolbar says, Google is showing NO incoming links at all to your website. I did see where you had a links page, but maybe when you didn't reciprocate the links to all those pages they dropped you in return? I certainly would have!
That might be a good explanation why you dropped, instead of it being any kind of meta tag problem.

The way you talked, you don't have but a few reciprocating links. Did you tell those people you would exchange with them?

Another thing that one of the other posters said...and from what I understand is not the case...
If you DO have incoming links, but you don't link back to them, they actually count MORE than regular reciprocating links. Alot of the savvy site owners are now exchanging links and having you link to one of their sites, while linking OUT to you from another site (equal in page rank) so that the one you link to is getting extra benefit. One guy told me that his page rank had increased dramatically when he applied that strategy. I don't do it...mostly because I've worked for months on good recip links...but I have thought about it.

In any case, with your website having NO incoming links that Google recognizes, you won't ever rank for anything. My advice would be to dump your links page and start all over with a legitimate exchange program. Once you get 20 or 30 good links (using your keywords as the link text) you'll be showing again. And remember to make one optimized page for each keyword. Don't mix them up if you can avoid it.

Jan

favedave · #17 (**permalink**) 11-13-2003, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvdavy

I thought I'd add my two cents to the discussion...

According to what my Google toolbar says, Google is showing NO incoming links at all to your website. I did see where you had a links page, but maybe when you didn't reciprocate the links to all those pages they dropped you in return? I certainly would have!
That might be a good explanation why you dropped, instead of it being any kind of meta tag problem.

if you can avoid it.

Jan

No! This tool is useless.

Actually, the google search function to show how many links are coming to you is broken and has never really worked very well.

I guess it's not a priority with google, because right now that link search is pretty useless.

I have a site with dozens of links coming in and google only sees a few. Then it sees none. Then it sees 5. It goes up and down capriciously.

Altavista and alltheweb.com have more accurate info for measuring links to you, but they're still not perfect.

favedave · #18 (**permalink**) 11-13-2003, 05:51 PM

oh, BTW, a beter way to see how many links are coming to you in google, search like this:

+www.domain +.com

this will pull up pages who have your url in them. It brings up your site, too, but also all the links to you.

Duncan Pollock · #19 (**permalink**) 11-13-2003, 06:21 PM

I'm not an expert, but sharing my own experience in "beating back the competition" with you may be of some help.
For a start I looked at the source code of websites that had better positioning than mine did. I then adjusted my own meta tags accordingly. (I know these aren't as important as they were -- and we're regularly told that Google ignores them altogether -- but I'm sure you can't come to harm by doing what more succesful sites are doing).
I then took Google up on their Adwords idea, which I see as a way to appear not only on the first page of search results but also all the subsequent ones. Sure, you need someone to click on your ad, but this isn't any different than hoping they'll do so when they see your listing, is it? Moreover, The Googles Adword Team are going to monitor your results and help make sure the ads are paying off for you.
As a third "step in the right direction" I set up reciprocal links that were not only the same as those on my competitors' sites but greater in number.
Admittedly I'm fortunate in selling to people interested in a specific geographical area instead of needing to attract customers from here, there, and everywhere (although actually many of the buyers I'm looking for are likely to come from a wide range of other locations). I'm also fortunate in that I'm not really faced with more than a couple of dozen competing websites (surprisingly -- or should I say thankfully? -- the overwhelming majority of real estate agents don't have personal websites but rely on their corporate ones to bring them business instead; moreover, these corporate websites tend not to show in the results when people search for "such-and-such-a-place real estate [which is something else I won't complain about!]).
In any case, I now appear a good ten or more listings higher than I was doing a few months ago.
And I suppose I'm suggesting that there's some sense in "joining them if you can't beat them."
Duncan

luvdavy · #20 (**permalink**) 11-13-2003, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by favedave

oh, BTW, a beter way to see how many links are coming to you in google, search like this:

+www.domain +.com

this will pull up pages who have your url in them. It brings up your site, too, but also all the links to you.

Google only shows links from pages with a PR4 or higher. They only update their links about every 6-8 weeks. My site shows 29 links. I probably have about 80...but very few of them are on a PR4 page.
It's all well and good to go to Altavista or somewhere and check for your number of links. But what counts is what Google sees....and if Google shows no links, then you won't place or have a page rank. My toolbar is not broken and never has been.
It just takes a little push every now and then to see a page rank. The backwards links work just fine.

I took over a very large vacation condo rental site about 5 months ago with NO ranking. We are now in the top 3 for almost every single key phrase...and these are NOT without some very tough competition. I've learned the hard way what works and what doesn't....and the links and the link text are number 1, followed closely by using the keywords on each page about 10 times.

Jan