Unfairly filtered by GOOGLE due to Company name & URL

[greeneagle]

Unfairly Filtered by GOOGLE for Company Name and URL

We have a client who’s company name is “Hunt and Hunt Ltd.”. They maintain a pinnacle market position in a very large market niche.

The URL is www.huntandhunt.com which is parsed by GOOGLE as “hunt hunt” when removing the stop word “and”. The parsed duplication of “hunt” in the URL already seems “spammy” and on top of that the site has nothing to do with “hunting”.

Sure we have a PR4 and are in the second complete Site revision and are getting traffic for targeted keywords relevant to core business, but it is predominantly from YAHOO. I know we are being filtered for the URL issue, because when I do the following GOOGLE Searches, I get the results shown.

“hunt and hunt” – not in the top 1000
“hunt” – not in the top 1000
“hunt ltd” - #17
“hunt and hunt ltd” - #1

I believe we can definitely show that GOOGLE filters on the URL name more than Yahoo. Here are the same searches and YAHOO results:

“hunt and hunt” – #58
“hunt” – #711
“hunt ltd” - #1
“hunt and hunt ltd” - #1

How do I get past this unfair “URL Relevancy Filtering” alg component obviously displayed in the GOOGLE SERPs?

All my other clients enjoy top SERPs for company name without including the company type (Inc., LTD., LLC.) etc.

Because of this unfair GOOGLE Filtering YAHOO continues to deliver better search results (hosting stats) by a margin of 4 to 1 over GOOGLE.

Should I contact GOOGLE about this?, If so how, who, and will they even listen?

Take heed – GOOGLE definitely relies on Domain and File names more than YAHOO!

Please note, I am posting this issue in 2 “webmaster” forums and a 1 top SEO forum to see what “channel” offers the best help for this kind of issue.

In our opinion this is a critical GOOGLE alg oversight because many relatives go into business and name their companies "surname and same surname". There is even another "Hunt and Hunt" (jewelry store). It looks like every one of them (1000s) especially when last names take on a specific meaning AI (Artificial Intelligence) wise are being filtered. In our opinion this is a serious GOOGLE alg blooper at this time.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Ken

[ADAM Web Design]

Interesting theory, at best. And if Yahoo! and Google used the same database (or even the same-sized database), it would have some merit.

Google's database is much larger than Yahoo!'s, so it will be much more difficult to get a specific keyword or phrase. That behaviour is perfectly normal.

Also, if you really want to focus on the phrase "Hunt and Hunt" or "Hunt" (not that the site has anything to do with hunting), then you may want to look at reducing the length of your title tag.

I'm not sure if this has any bearing on SERPs, but it's good coding practice anyway: take the Dreamweaver Javascript code and put it into a separate .JS file. This will make your code a lot easier to read.

The other thing you may want to try, if the phrase "Hunt and Hunt" is so important, is to put the Hunt and Hunt part in <h1> tags instead of the way you have it now (with a td tag and a class attribute).

Granted, this is all just secondary material. Your big issue is that you're in a bigger pond now. Think of search engines like baseball leagues. Yahoo! is AA (at best), and Google is the major leagues. The big leaguers are going to throw much better pitches than the AA pitchers, but does that mean the league is unfairly penalizing you because Randy Johnson can cram a 100 MPH heater down your throat?

[janeth]

Hi Ken,

It does look like Google has a better idea of what the site is about then Yahoo.

[greeneagle]

Thanks Janeth - I appreciate the advice "guys", I do need real help and guideance here "of substance", all the way to a new URL and "canning" this one with a start over from scratch. Let's not eliminate any best choices. Am posting in 3 forums because of the urgency of the help required and the depth of knowledge and experience needed here to shine "real" light on the issue.

Regards,
Ken

[greeneagle]

Janeth,

With your "in depth" experience as an SEO I know that remark was intended "tongue in cheek" or with an LOL - You know as well as I that in this case YAHOO is delivering many more "relevant" results.

LOL - I hope we are laughing together here, because it's not very damn funny, sitting in my chair!

Any help from your perspective would be valued. Have you run into this issue yet?

Thanks,
Ken

[GiftsForYouBiz]

Based on the differences in parsing and analytics between the SEs, perhaps its better to figure out a way to go 'with' the flow of each (I like cinnamon with apples, but don't think it'd work the same with oranges).

I don't believe, even if Google agreed with you, that they'll change their algorithms, stop word filtering, or anything else to compensate (although it might provide food for thought).

My first thought was, what if you got a more apt URL and built it up alongside your original? Perhaps the new URL could then be more focused around the services or benefits the client has to offer?

[greeneagle]

GiftsForYouBiz,

Thanks, I am not wondering if this is a good candidate for a second URL and a completely different WebSite. I believe it is.

Many times though the GOOGLE "authorities" assigned to following "top" webmaster Google specific forums around the world, realize and rectify a real issue when it is made public. That is part of my focus here.

Thanks for contributing to that effort,
Ken

[GiftsForYouBiz]

Originally Posted by greeneagle

Many times though the GOOGLE "authorities" assigned to following "top" webmaster Google specific forums around the world, realize and rectify a real issue when it is made public.

Understood.

They have many analytical 'brains' ... so getting it recognized (into the hands of those brains), as you are doing, might prove worthwhile.

Perhaps they have a list of URL exceptions...??

[greeneagle]

GiftsForYouBiz,

They claim very few if any "manual" exemptions. I believe this issue is "bigger" than that.

Ken

[Smell-vin]

Hi

In my humble opinion I think you are on the wrong track, I did a search on google for hunt and hunt? The top site out of 7,150,000 was a company in australia with the domain name www.hunthunt.au I do not think your url is the problem, if it where you would not be 5th of 2,980,000 for hunt and hunt ltd.

look to optimising your site for your chosen key words, it is so easy to blame the search engines when we do not get the positions we think we deserve, I know I do it myself.

Mel
www.thecelticshop.co.uk

[bhartzer]

Mel Harris is right. A search for hunt and hunt without quotes on Google shows that your original theory doesn't hold any water. I don't think Google is penalizing for the url.

In this case, I think it's all due to the text in the backlinks.

[greeneagle]

Alright, Mel Harris,

Please provide more than "I believe". Sorry guy, but I have provided substance in ths post and desperately need the same in return. This is a very critical issue for an imnportant client!

Thanks,
Ken

[JayDrake]

I'm not sure why it is you feel that the domain name plays such a large role in this. As it stands, when you search for "hunt and hunt" the first site's domain is www.hunthunt.com.au which, assuming that Google simply ignores 'and' within domain names puts it pretty much in the same bucket as www.huntandhunt.com. Moving down the list, each site I look at has it's merits and flaws, but the reality is that "hunt" and even "hunt and hunt" (Which appears to be considered the very same as "hunt's and hunt's") are key words/phrases that a very large number of people use.

I sincerely doubt that your domain name has a negative affect on your ranking in this case and honestly, assuming you are doing well with your other key phrases, I agree with Janeth that Google has a good idea what the business is about. What it can't manage is reading the mind of a searcher who wants to find a business named "Hunt and Hunt" and figure out that this means the person is looking for a business with that name which does laser machine cutting and such.

Put simply, I think your lack of position for "Hunt" and "Hunt and Hunt" has everything to do with saturation and nothing to do with the domain name.

[greeneagle]

JayDrake,

I think you hit the nail on the head. Yes, we are not able to find our client by company name, like we are our other clients.

Thanks,

Ken

[greeneagle]

bhratzer,

You lost me all the way! I'm not hunting for a lawyer! "hunt and hunt" with quotes, which I believe most searchers DON"T USE reveals a lowly #46, So what is your point? I still don't enjoy these "bottom of the barrel" results for other specific client company names (with or without quotes), no matter what the company type suffix is or what specificity you use in the search!

Ken

[greeneagle]

I think it is time to get this GOOGLE alg BLOOPER in order!

Is that an easy issue? Probably not!

Ken

[GiftsForYouBiz]

Okay, I'm back on this one, 'cause its something I came across in my own domain name issues.

I began using my company name, Gifts For You, but soon realized my .biz was going to be mistaken with giftsforyou.com

So, I altered my online presence and company to resemble GiftsForYou.Biz. Now, I have direct rivalry for the "giftsforyou" term, although I'm not even on page 1 with "gifts for you" (even with the quotes).

But, I also realized, people aren't going to be looking for my company name, unless they know me, in which case they'll already know the url. So, I concentrated my efforts on my keyword phrases. Anyway, I'd much rather someone find me by crystal figurines than by gifts for you. I mean, why should I waste promotional copy on my company name, gifts for you, which is much more saturated than crystal figurines anyway?

I think the hunthunt.au site would certainly have been just as penalized as huntandhunt. That made perfect sense... in retrospect.

[J-Spider]

While your website's name does play a role in ranking, it is a minor role at best.

I believe (excuse me, KNOW) you are too focused on this one topic.

Realistically, to do your business justice you need to show up under the keywords that people are searching for to find your products or services.

A quick look at WordTracker shows you that the following are good keywords:

oilfield equipment
precision machining
laser machining
metal machining
perforating equipment

So build your site around these terms. For example, your "Laser Machining" page is on the right path.

Now you need a page about each of the other keywords listed above.

THEN, and this is a BIG THEN, you need inbound links and lots of them. The links should have the keywords in the linking text like the one I created above to your laser page.

How do you get inbound links? You ask for them, you buy them, you post in forums and have a link in your signature, etc.

Links play the largest role in Google's alg, period. Everything else is negligible.

If it is of utmost importance that you show up in the listing under your company's name then take solace in this...

if you search for "Hunt and Hunt metal machining" then you are number one on Google.

That's pretty decent.

[greeneagle]

GiftsForYouBiz:

"But, I also realized, people aren't going to be looking for my company name, unless they know me, in which case they'll already know the url."

Gifts,
Although we have to depend and coach our "constituents" to get their company name "out there", that does not mean that it is going to happen (agreed). Several of my clients get their top referrers from company name and/or "principle" name searched. This is not at all unusual. But, if a company doesn't go forward promoting themselves and having their webmaster continue in SEO and marketing and promotion and linkback requests.... What's left when you have been diligent in providing content depth? Even if we were "marginal" between "unique content depth" and an internet brochure, (which we are not) .....

Sorry , we just don't get there yet! All my other clients with the same optimization exceed my expectations and rank highly in GOOGLE, not this one though! I mean we are talking validated W3C code (cleaner than clean), virtually no "parsing trash" in the way, and guess what?, they still lose out in comparison.

Because "they know your company name they already know your URL" - But what if you are so severely filtered that you can't get there from here?

That is what we are talking about here, after all!

Thanks,
Ken

[J-Spider]

ok, so you are hell bent on coming up under the phrase "hunt and hunt". Then buy, trade, or acquire links to your website with the linking text "Hunt and Hunt".

Problem solved.

But I think in the bigger picture it is far more important to come up under the products or services that your company (or the company you represent) provides rather than the actual name of the company. See my previous post.

[GiftsForYouBiz]

But again, according to your original post:

Originally Posted by greeneagle

The URL is www.huntandhunt.com which is parsed by GOOGLE as “hunt hunt” when removing the stop word “and”. The parsed duplication of “hunt” in the URL already seems “spammy” and on top of that the site has nothing to do with “hunting”.

Wouldn't it be fair (or unfair as the case is being claimed) that hunthunt.com.au would be just as penalized, and fall just as far down the list.

I agree with J-Spider's comment that "Google"'s primary concern is one of linking; back, forwards, reciprocal, hot text, etc. Everything else combined might equal or surpass this importance. But aside from that, the rest of the SEO methodologies are primarily useful for other SEs.

What I think is "unfair", for lack of a better word right now, is the inclusion of the third level domain name playing a role in back-linking. Personally, I believe www.giftsforyou.biz should be the same as giftsforyou.biz. Especially for those that are now beginning to use things like, resources.site.com, help.site.com, or orders.site.com.

[achronister]

But I think in the bigger picture it is far more important to come up under the products or services that your company (or the company you represent) provides rather than the actual name of the company. See my previous post.