Google Update, PageRank, Backlink Information - Start Here

[jestep]

This thread was started to answer the many general questions, users have about Google and how it updates its search results, PageRank, and backlink results. This thread also answers general questions about how Google displays backlinks.

Start here before you ask any questions about PageRank updating, backlink updating, or search result updating.


How often does Google update its search results?

Google updates its search results, also known as SERP's, continuously. This means that google changes the result pages as it spiders the web and finds new links and content.


How Often Does Google Update PageRank and Backlinks?

Google updates their Backlink results and PageRank results every 3 – 6 weeks.
The update usually begins on a weekend or a holiday and lasts for 3 – 4 days. It is very common to see different results across the different datacenters during this time. Also, if there are different results across google datacenters when searching for backlink results, this means that an update is in progress.
You can check the search results across google datacenters here.
http://www.void.be/googletool.html


How often does Google dance?

Google does not dance anymore and has not danced for over a year. A google dance is a term referring to the way google used to update their SERP results, every 4 – 6 weeks. There was usually a massive change in the search results and the search results were generally unstable. Now google uses a continuously updating pattern so the results shown by google are much more stable than they once were.


Why doesn't google show all of the links to my site?

Google has always shown only a sample of the links coming into your site. These links are updated in the search results every 3 - 6 weeks. Even though google only shows a small sample, this does not mean that google doesn't count the other backlinks when displaying search results. Google updates its search result pages for standard searches continuously, and these search results take into account all links that google has found.

[lspence]

This is great info for new posters. Any chance you could make this a sticky so it will stay at the top of the forums?

[cbp]

Any chance you could make this a sticky so it will stay at the top of the forums?

Done.

Thanks jestep.

CBP

[DriWashSolutions]

Originally Posted by cbp

Done

How about the dates of the last Update? That would be helpful as a sticky as well.

[Bluesuit]

Does the backlinks update happen at the same time as the PR update? Are they one of the same?

[minstrel]

The databases are updated on a more or less continuous basis now. Periodically, there may be a more "substantial" adjustment, perhaps a change in the ranking algorithm or something else, and that tends to get called an "update". In reality, PR probably fluctuates along with any o most of the tweaking Google does but the Toolbar PR graph only gets updated when Google feels like it - often, this seems to be a few days to a week after an "update" but there is no fixed schedule.

[rlrouse]

Google usually updates PR and backlinks internally a week or two prior to the time that we see the updates on the toolbar and with the Link: command.

When your site gets an increase (or decrease) in traffic that isn't a one day anomaly, you can usually expect a toolbar PR and backlinks update within a couple of weeks.

The real update (the one that affects traffic) takes place long before it becomes apparent with the toolbar and link: command. This is why we see so many posts like "My PR and backlinks went up but my traffic didn't change".

In actuality the traffic did change, just not at the same time as the "update".

[onthink]

i admire the idea discussed above

[DJ-Rg]

how long does it take to get a page rank for a page.. most my pages usually get a 5-6 PR but i started 2 new blogs ..the first blog Rollin Thunder in June and Blogoshere Zoo in late August.. both blogs are completely different in content..

thank ya kinda..

[nykyta]

Hey, that is really good to know RlRouse. I have been getting an increasing amount of traffic from Googles. Hopefully my PR goes up some more.
Ok, now my question is the googlebot have really been crawling my website, is that also a good sign?
As of Oct 11 I have 512 hits from them. Or maybe they way the bots crawl doesn't mean anything? - Nykyta

[G00GL3R]

Does anybody know when the next Google update is?

[SoCalWebArtist]

Apparently, there are many of you who are seeing a lot of additional activity coming from Googlebots and that may be the addition of the newest Googlebots which were released over a month ago.

Some of the concern over the release of these new bots is the fact that we are about a year from the time Google did their 'Florida' update which threw a lot of my clients websites down in ranks and the concern is - are the new Googlebots a sign that Google is getting ready to do another update?

Another theory of why Googlebots would have a lot of 'extra' activity is that they may be panicking as they attempt to rebuild an index that might have been lost or corrupted.

The major concern for a lot of SEOs is that their sites may be dropped from Google altogether if this new Googlebot is to ferret out those sites using cloaked pages or keyword targeted pages with redirects built into them.

Having 'doorway' pages or 'entrance' pages targeted to pull well for keywords on specific engines has always proven to be effective for obtaining high rankings and has never before been targeted by the search engines as a violation - will that end soon?

wishing you all success,
- John

[fatcast]

A few months back, at a sales seminar, the Mkt guy was crowing about his #1 position for many key phrases used in his industry. I checked it out - a glipmse of a page choked full of keywords - then the actual page. They were #1 for weeks! Loads of real leads i heard. Then the site dissapeared off Google for a whole 2 months. Now they are back to their #5 page rank. They prob got thousands of hits/week for weeks. Now ist back to 200-300 hits/week. Was it worth it? Since they did get back to where they were.

[HollyC]

Why doesn't google show all of the links to my site?

Google has always shown only a sample of the links coming into your site. These links are updated in the search results every 3 - 6 weeks. Even though google only shows a small sample, this does not mean that google doesn't count the other backlinks when displaying search results. Google updates its search result pages for standard searches continuously, and these search results take into account all links that google has found.[/quote]

I'm glad I read this here, because I always find it puzzling/troubling that more backlinks don't show up when I know for a fact so many have been added. Is there an authoritative place where you can sort through ALL of the links that link to you, or can you recommend software?

We do really well with google at my company http://www.amberjewelry.com- I think it is a combination of a lot of factors, for one, the right name and tons of content, and I hope we're just good at what we do- but aside from the horror of last November and a daily dumping of cookies & cruise through Google, I just pretty much gave up worrying about it & try to drive business in other ways. As a small business person there's only so much I can ever get to anyway and I just found the anxiety of "what's Google going to do now?" fairly unbearable after last November.
[/url]

[katom]

I have had a pagerank of 4 or 5 for more than a year, then all at once it went to 0. I saw an article on here that indicated this means you weren't indexed, and that it happened to a number of sites in early November when it also happened to me. My question is, what should I do to get back in the good graces of Google, or it may actually be, what should I quit doing to cause them to skip over me for pagerank?

[pauldarthvader]

Hi

The same happened to me. Just sit tight for a while, the next time the spider visits you, it will update their database and you should get indexed again.

Paul
http://www.ukgadgetsdirect.co.uk

[katiab]

It happened to me too. I was pretty well ranked on Google, and pouf, I simply vanished. I know a lot of people who have seen the same thing.
What was that about Florida? Could it be that I'm located in Florida that my site has been removed? I never knew about this.

Katia
Original Vintage Poster Gallery 1880 to 1980
http://www.intl-roots.com

[Cyberswordsman]

"I was pretty well ranked on Google, and pouf, I simply vanished."

i was with a friend a couple of weeks ago and i was showing him what $160/mn would buy him at yahoo for the top sponsored link....we went to google for a minute and i typed in the top search for my industry...to my surprise i was #1 AND #2 but i told him i would be gone from those spots in 5 minutes....as luck (bad) would have it five minutes later i indeed was gone...wtf?..."seeee i said...thats why we gots to get this sponsored link"...least when i wake up in the morning i know my top sponsored link will be there...

regards
rick

[jmck]

HI There,

Thanks for the vast amount of info.
I am a newbee so please forgive me in advance for simple questions.
What is the sandbox that is referred to ?
I have a new site up ten days, it is in the Google directory but doesn't register any backlinks etc and the Google box goes white 0/10. Does this simply mean I have to wait three to six weeks for all backlinks to be registered etc ?

Also nobody seems to recommend good link exchange programs ? Can anyone recommend some ?
http://www.lookaroundireland.com
http://www.mypicturesofireland.com

[crankydave]

Originally Posted by jmck

HI There,

Thanks for the vast amount of info.
I am a newbee so please forgive me in advance for simple questions.
What is the sandbox that is referred to ?
I have a new site up ten days, it is in the Google directory but doesn't register any backlinks etc and the Google box goes white 0/10. Does this simply mean I have to wait three to six weeks for all backlinks to be registered etc ?

Also nobody seems to recommend good link exchange programs ? Can anyone recommend some ?
http://www.lookaroundireland.com
http://www.mypicturesofireland.com

Welcome to WPW jmck!

There have been many discussions about the "sandbox" "sandbox effect" "linking strategies" Use the search box with these terms and dig in! A good place to start with linking/marketing would be here...

http://www.webproworld.com/viewforum.php?f=16

Here's another good list for directories...

http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=21900

Good Luck!

Dave

[RichardS]

Jestep

Great info. Can I ask what this link You can check the search results across google datacenters here.
http://www.void.be/googletool.html
will do for me? What do I need to get out of it?



Cheers


RS

[shaileshk]

Hi
My site have 34 back link but google give only 2 page Rank ?

Why ? help me


thanks

shailesh

[smo]

Originally Posted by shaileshk

My site have 34 back link but google give only 2 page Rank ?

There is no direct relation between number of backlinks to PR. The quality of site pointing ( linking) to your site matters here. Who is linking you is important than how many back links you have.

[nelsonez]

Anyone else following the Google Maps feature?? Looks like a really cool and useful tool. If you type a business topic and its geographic location (ex. Pizza Shop, Denver Colorado) in the search bar, google will show all those specific businesses mapped out in the geographic region you specified.

My question to everyone here is where is Google pulling the data for these businesses?? Many of the addresses it is giving are for businesses that don't even have websites. So is it from sort of online yellow pages??

I'd like to make sure my clients are in this database, I just don't know where Google is pulling the data from.

http://maps.google.com

[jackit_chick]

I have a question for JESTEP or anyone else whom might know the answer. You said the google doesn't dance anymore. I know that google's spiders to a fresh crawl and a deep crawl. Fresh crawl was where the spiders continually crawled websites that update a lot, and the deep crawl was like once a month where they recrawled everything. So I'm wondering if the deep crawl was the same as the google dance? Or do they still do their deep crawl?
If they don't do the deep crawl once a month, than do they just do a fresh crawl all the time now, or do they do a continual deep crawl?
An answer to this would help me a lot.

[jestep]

I have a question for JESTEP or anyone else whom might know the answer. You said the google doesn't dance anymore. I know that google's spiders to a fresh crawl and a deep crawl. Fresh crawl was where the spiders continually crawled websites that update a lot, and the deep crawl was like once a month where they re-crawled everything. So I'm wondering if the deep crawl was the same as the google dance? Or do they still do their deep crawl?
If they don't do the deep crawl once a month, than do they just do a fresh crawl all the time now, or do they do a continual deep crawl?
An answer to this would help me a lot.

From looking at google spider activity on my sites, they crawl most of the pages daily. The way they crawl depends on incoming links and the navigational structure of the site. The pages with more internal and external links get crawled the most, usually several times per day while the less linked pages get crawled less, usually daily or every other day. There really isn't a Deep or Fresh crawl anymore that I can see. The exception to this may be with a brand new site, otherwise I don't think there is a difference.

[jackit_chick]

Hm. Cuz once a month I've been running reports and checking our rankings on pages I've made changes to. Like I'd make the change, wait 1 month, then check their listings. So I guess I could do it the very next day now if I wanted to and it would be the same results.
Thanks for your reply jestep!

[jestep]

So I guess I could do it the very next day now if I wanted to and it would be the same results.

When I make changes, I can usually see the effect (if there is any) in two to three days. Changing on page factors usually has very little effect, but if I get new links into a page or something similar I will almost always see the changes within a few days. I think it's one of the best aspects of google, being able to immediately see the effects of what you do with your site.

[jackit_chick]

2 - 3 days eh? Yes the results are a LOT sooner than a month then. That explains a few things. I made some changes to some shock pages and I typed it in google like a couple days later and it was already showing results. I was all excited cuz I thought I had coincidentally posted the new pages a day before Google's Dance lol. So that explains why they were showing up!
Thanks for your help!

[wrmineo]

Originally Posted by jackit_chick

2 - 3 days eh? Yes the results are a LOT sooner than a month then. That explains a few things. I made some changes to some shock pages and I typed it in google like a couple days later and it was already showing results. I was all excited cuz I thought I had coincidentally posted the new pages a day before Google's Dance lol. So that explains why they were showing up!
Thanks for your help!

Jackit - I'm finising up my first year of my first website; learning design, seo, ses, et al via "baptism by fire" so to speak.

Anyway ... I've certainly noticed that as I've achieved better INTERNAL linking, more so than recip's, and applying other lessons learned (valid code, avoiding duplicate content, etc.), I've gotten many frequent and consistent visits from Googlebot.

(Make sure you have a robots.txt file present, that your metas are in place and corret, and validate your code at W3C)

Secondly, when this began happening, I started getting visited by Google's ImageBot, and from several Google sources / countries(de, fr, ca. etc.) and the number of FreshDames images in Google Images increased ten-fold within a month. (Make sure your images have names, alt-text, etc. that's content and keywork relevent).

Finally, I began running AdSense the last week of February, and began getting hits from the Google MediaBot.

Google loves Google and with all three robots present going through my site now, even my newest pages are usually indexed and cached within 2-3 days. I'm hoping to finally crack into some decent SERP with Google and hence more traffic and visitors. (Right now, I kick butt in Yahoo! and MSN for my keywords, but have yet to scratch Google!)

Patience, professionalism and persistence will pay off - or so I keep telling myself.

Hope this helps, or maybe gives you some more ideas.

Good Luck ~ Happy Surfing!

[jackit_chick]

Freshdames what do you mean by a robot.txt file? I have the meta tag that's the "index, follow" one, is that what you mean? If not please explain.
Withour site it's just the opposite. I've optimized my whole website specifically around people, making it user friendly, and then Google's algorithm. If you type in procomp shocks, skyjacker shocks, lift kits, etc. we can be found on the first page of google ( www.jackit.com ) But we've just barely begun even showing up for Yahoo and MSN. I don't know what Yahoo or MSN looks for. Do you have any clue as to what they use for their algorithm compared to Google?
Thanks for your tips!

[wrmineo]

Originally Posted by jackit_chick

Freshdames what do you mean by a robot.txt file?

On the root of your domain, you should have txt file that lets robots know they can / cannot crawl your site and your meta's help tell it to index, follow etc.

You should simply create a file in notepad or the like, save as robots.txt and upload to your site so that if I point to yoursite.com/robots.txt, I might see something like:

User-agent: *
Disallow:

Hope this helps.

[jackit_chick]

Thanks! :)

[wrmineo]

Originally Posted by jackit_chick

Thanks! :)

You're certainly welcome.

However, do a little research before you stick an allow all, disallow none robots.txt file out there.

I have many "supplemental results" in the Google indexes, that I believe are from duplicate content I have in "test" folders, and it's been a struggle to filter out and get the same results that I do from Yahoo and MSN.

There are plenty of posts to sift through with example robot files, just keep in mind you may have some folders, files, images, best left excluded from robots. Alternately, you could probably look at root domains and add /robots.txt of nearly any website and see their settings. (Google's is very interesting for that matter http://www.google.com/robots.txt )

~ Happy Surfing ~

[Goo Goo X]

Can anyone speak American English? Why even mess with secret robots? Only the facts - that's my motto.

What is the one thing we all look foreward to concerning our web sites? The next Google Page Rank update right? How can we forecast when the next Google page rank forecast will occur? There was one Google update October 6, 2004, another on January 2, 2005 and another on Apr 22, 2005. The next PR update should be about July 28, 2005. Sources - middle page at http://www.forfreecasinos.com/topgoogleranking.html , Google page rank forecast at top of http://forfreecasinos.com/site-vote.html

Any Questions?

[mystic]

lol that sux because right after google did there page rank update i started my website. It sux now that i have to wait all the way till the end of july or maybe even more to get traffic from google

[cbp]

Why does it sux? Google updates PR internally possibly every few weeks - you do not have to wait until the next public update.

CBP

[mystic]

ok then i dont get this. So when does my page rank change? someone mentioned next google page rank update is at the end of july but u said its ok cuz my page rank might change in a week or so, how is that?

[cbp]

ok then i dont get this. So when does my page rank change? someone mentioned next google page rank update is at the end of july but u said its ok cuz my page rank might change in a week or so, how is that?

Google updates the PR internally anywhere from daily to every few weeks. This is for their internal use. They update it publically on the toolbar whenever they feel like it - last one was a few weeks ago - we have no idea when the next one is - maybe July --- whenever the toolbar update occurs, it does not affect rankings as Google have already taken it into account in their internal update.

CBP

[mystic]

what do you mean by internal? like rankings of sites that only they no and is not public yet? if so just say since my site is new and is allready internally ranked will it show up when searched by keyword in searches or for that do i have to wait till the public update?

[cbp]

Its only the PR that is updated internally - the rankings are public!!!!

CBP

[evstar deluxe]

Hi all,

Im a newbie, and got a quick question...

Im trying to get some sort of page rank for my site < http://www.stitchnpatch.com.au > but cannot get even a sniff. i've got a few inbound links (prob about 10), and am listed in prob about 30 directories. But I get no page rank (0/10) and as far as the Google tool bar is concerned I have no back links.

My site doesn't fend too bad in MSN (as it is keyword based). Google is soooo frustrating me. Any suggestions would be grately appreciated.

(P.S - not listed in ODP yet, having some difficulties with that)

[mystic]

I'm guessing you need a lot more links to your site then that. Getting inboung links is a daily process and you should be working on getting links to your site daily. Here's a list of directories to list in : http://www.geocities.com/site_vortex...s_Portals.html

If you submit your site to all these directories witch without counting looks to be like about a thousand i'm pretty sure u'll have a good rank in google next time they update it

[wrmineo]

#1. Link Quality - your site could have 10 quality links pointing to it and it would serve you better than 10000 crap links.

2. Longevity counts - if your site is still rather new, it will simply take time for G and others to "appreciate" it and give it authenticity. SE's like to know you're not a fly-by-night and you're here to stay.

3. Hosting Counts - make sure you're not on a webhost that is blacklisted for spam or other reasons.

4. Google PR is Google Loving Google - don't get so wrapped around the G PR issue, that you lose focus on what counts, your website. Worry about building quality, content relevant pages (which you seem to be doing well with) and other things will fall into place with less effort.

5. SES - submit to quality SE's and Directories, avoiding FFA and other affiliate based linking until you're better established.

Your site looks nice. Check the code with W3C, fill in any missing alt-texts and give minor tweaks as needed and be patient, professional and persistent in your pursuits; the PR will come.

I think you can check seo-chat for future PR of your pages to clarify what a previous poster referred to as internal updates. Google has nearly 20 IPs that they update at various times; only when they get the notion, do they synchronize and tease us with updates pubically.

Good luck and happy surfing!

[cbp]

(P.S - not listed in ODP yet, having some difficulties with that)

If you stop submitting, editors don't have to spend so much time deleting the duplicates.

CBP

[wrmineo]

If you stop submitting, editors don't have to spend so much time deleting the duplicates. CBP

Furthermore, if you submit mulitple times, you may find yourself banned and unable to submit.

DMOZ is more powerful than Google in regards to link power IMO.

Anyone can get listed in Google Web. But there's only one way to get in the Google Directory and that's via DMOZ/ODP, which subsequently feeds Netscape, AOL and many others - now you have some very powerful IBL pointing to your site. Just a guess, but I don't think it'll hurt your PR :)

You've probably heard it already, but getting listed in DMOZ takes a vast amount of patience. Take a look at some of the categories and notice the last updated date of the bottom of the page - some are very recent while others are a year or more!

If you're concerned and it's been a few months, they have a forum ran by their editors where you can post a query. If it's been rejected, or it's in the qeue, they'll generally give you some feedback.

Good Luck - Happy Surfing (and waiting:) )

[evstar deluxe]

yeah, i realise that it isn't a good idea to submit multiple times when i read the terms of the directory. I only submitted once, and then waited for about 3 months before realising that there is a forum to get submission status.

Apparently my submission didn't go through, so i was advised to re-submit. I'm waiting for another month before i request another submission status.

Freshdames, could you explain what "FFA" is. And is W3C some sort of code checking software which determines errors?

[wrmineo]

Sorry, maybe we should suggest a forum for folks to learn and get familiar with these and other geek terms.

FFA: Free For All - in short, they're link farms. Google and some others are not crazy about them sometimes. If you don't have many links, and then all of a sudden have hundreds of FFA links pointing to you, it'll look like you're trying to artifically boost your ranking - duh! Aren't we all trying in some tactful way ....

W3C: World Wide Web Consortium - the authority of web code and more. Quote: is an international consortium where Member organizations, a full-time staff, and the public work together to develop Web standards. They have great tips, articles, code validators and more. http://www.w3c.org

If you click on the spearspics link in my signature block, you'll see a W3C valid button on the page declaring it's valid HTML; check it out.

[mystic]

everyone has always warned me about link farms but i never understood what exactly is a link farm. because i've seen many directories for example with millions of links and no page rank is that a link farm? can you please give me a link to a link farm so i no wut it is.

[wrmineo]

For a definition of link farm, check out this link:

http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/L/link_farming.html

Examples of a link farms would be subjective to particular engines, users et al.

All I can do is suggest that you do some homework and choose wisely; remember, it's quality versus quantity.