Trying to gauge Google PageRank system...

[rcmedia2004]

Hi,

We are a newer site in a very competitive field and are currently in the process of a major reciprocal linking program.
I've noticed that one of our competitors has a Google PageRank of 4/10 with only about 30 more linkbacks than us (*we currently have a PageRank of 3/10).
Can we expect our PageRank to hit 4/10 when we get the 30 extra linkbacks as well?

Thanks in advance

[flood6]

It's really hard to say.

Your PR is based on number of inbound links, the PR of the inbound links, and the number of outbound links on a given page.

After 30 new inbound links you could have more, less, or the same PR as your competitor.

[cbp]

One high PR link (eg PR6 or 7) may be enough to get you a PR4.

BUT, stop sweating over PR - its only one of the smaller factors in the ranking formula.

CBP

[bhartzer]

Actually, you really need only one PR5 link to your site to get your site to a PR4. And one PR6 link to get your site to a PR5 (or even a few PR5 links). It should be rather easy to get to at least a PR4.

Don't forget to get listed in the directories, such as DMOZ, Yahoo, Joe Ant, Zeal/Looksmart, etc.

[cbp]

I said PR6 or 7 based on the assumption that their are likely to be other links on the page to share the PR tranfer (especially if its the 'links' page). A PR5 will give a page a PR4 only if there are not many links on the page.

CBP

[rcmedia2004]

We have quite a few PR 4 and 5 link backs to our site... and all high quality, hand picked relevant links that our top competitors use as well.
.
Also, when I use the SEO doctor tool at http://www.instantposition.com/seo_doctor.cfm our site comes back with an exceptionally high rating...almost a perfect score as far as our SEO on the homepage itself. The only score that was not perfect was our body word count which exceeded 750 words slightly.

How much credence and weight does this carry with regards to Google PageRank... and does the combination of this and all our PR 4 and 5 linkbacks mean we can expect any movement in our PR by the next Google update?

Thanks again in advance.

[edhan]

I have only 2 inbound links but having Pagerank 4 while the other 1 inbound link having Pagerank 3. I do not really know if I am right but I feel that it is the quality content of your site will help to determine the Pagerank?

Edward

[adore]

Originally Posted by edhan

I do not really know if I am right but I feel that it is the quality content of your site will help to determine the Pagerank?

No. PageRank is based only on structure of links in the whole Internet.

[Mel]

Originally Posted by rcmedia2004

We have quite a few PR 4 and 5 link backs to our site... and all high quality, hand picked relevant links that our top competitors use as well.
.
Also, when I use the SEO doctor tool at http://www.instantposition.com/seo_doctor.cfm our site comes back with an exceptionally high rating...almost a perfect score as far as our SEO on the homepage itself. The only score that was not perfect was our body word count which exceeded 750 words slightly.

How much credence and weight does this carry with regards to Google PageRank... and does the combination of this and all our PR 4 and 5 linkbacks mean we can expect any movement in our PR by the next Google update?

Thanks again in advance.

Software tools are OK for doing basic checks on site pages, but they will not get you top rankings. (If they could we could all just buy the software d jour and have #1 rankings). IMO you should forget about such tools.

Page rank has only to do with the incoming links to the page, the PR of the linking page and the number of outbound links on the linking page.

A PR5 page linking to you as the only link would guarantee you a PR4 at least,but with 100 outbound links on the page it is worth one percent of that.

[jackson992]

Software tools are OK for doing basic checks on site pages, but they will not get you top rankings. (If they could we could all just buy the software d jour and have #1 rankings). IMO you should forget about such tools.


Sorry Mel but at present this is the only way to even attempt to get high rankings. Unfortuanly Google is so messed right now that it's become a spam search engine. i.e. the more links the better rankings

[Mel]

Originally Posted by jackson992

Software tools are OK for doing basic checks on site pages, but they will not get you top rankings. (If they could we could all just buy the software d jour and have #1 rankings). IMO you should forget about such tools.


Sorry Mel but at present this is the only way to even attempt to get high rankings. Unfortuanly Google is so messed right now that it's become a spam search engine. i.e. the more links the better rankings

Not sure what you are saying here Jack, but you do NOT need software packages to analyze your pages and tell you how to get high rankings.

You can do very well (IMO much better even) without the use of such packages simply by following a few basics and a bit of elbow grease.

[jackson992]

Sorry Mel:

I was trying to express how a peron needs to work on on site SEO as the only possible way to try to achieve high rankings.


You can get links but it is a slow process and it takes onths before you even know whether it has helped or not

[Mel]

Hve you tried internal anchor text links Jack?

[jackson992]

Hi Mel:

I am sure I have those if I understand them correctly

Take a look at http://jacksretail.com to see that I have them

Notice especially on the merchants I have listed that besides the merchant name I also put what they sell in the anchored text


I really am completely lost what to do now about Google. This was the only site was getting good Google traffic before and now it's plummeted too.

[Mel]

IMO there is a lot more you could do there Jack. For instance you have a link to accessories. Is that a term you want to be found for? If it is, what type of accessories, Auto accessories or bathroom accessories? The text of this link should be the accessories phrase that you want to be found for.

At the bottom of your page you have more internal links, but are you wanting to be found for the term craft supplies direct, or art brushes by trekel?

If you can work your keyphrases into the text of the links you will be better off IMO.

[Dave Hawley]

Actually, you really need only one PR5 link to your site to get your site to a PR4. And one PR6 link to get your site to a PR5

Not true. It is not that simple. There are many factors to consider;

1) Number of other links on the page.

2) Type of linked used to point to your page. Most are ok, but some will be ignored by Google.

3) A link from a kitchen-ware page to that of a financial software page will likey result in no PR flowing.

4) PR flow is likley based on a logarithmic scale as apposed to a simple linear scale.

5) Site could use a robot.txt file to stop Google going there.

6) Links from Guestbooks, FFI sites, Forum signatures etc likley count for nothing.

There are likely to be other factors as well.

[Dave Hawley]

Also, when I use the SEO doctor tool at http://www.instantposition.com/seo_doctor.cfm our site comes back with an exceptionally high rating...almost a perfect score as far as our SEO on the homepage itself

Is this reflected in the Google SERP's for your preferred kewyword/phrase?

[rcmedia2004]

No it isn't reflected in our Google search for the top keyphrases we want. We do pretty good with the secondary keywords however.

But this leads to my new but relatedtopic I was going to post:
I have studied the top 10 sites on google for our top/most desired keyword and at first I thought there was no rhyme or reason to the placement of those sites for various reasons like big inconsistencies in title tag structure, keyword density, number of links, use of headlines, use of alt tags etc. from site to site.
And to make matters worse, when I checked the linkbacks each of those top 10 sites had, there was major differences in the numbers.
To top it all off, the #1 site in Google for this keyword had by far the fewest linkbacks of the top 10 and a very short 3 word title tag, plus relatively little text and links etc. on the homepage compared to the competition.

Then I remembered something I had subconciously taken note of while doing my exhaustinginly extensive manual link campaign... this particular comapany always, ALWAYS used the exact same title/link with the exact same short but sweet 3 word phrase in their linkbacks... 'keyword from company x'. And it also matches their short title tag exactly in the homepage too.

I think this pretty much proves that Google really, really likes the anchor text.. but also the company name in the text links to your website.

Now this isn't to say there aren't other ways to get high rankings of course, because i noticed some of the other companies in the top 10 whose sites were more littered with tons of links and keywords etc.
and still ranked high, but when I checked their linkback numbers they had a ton of linkbacks...so maybe this proves you can kind of muscle your way in with a ton of relevant linkbacks as well but it is going to take much longer in a highly competitive industry like ours.

[Dave Hawley]

No it isn't reflected in our Google search for the top keyphrases we want

This then leads to the question of, why use it?

There is (and likey never will be) any software that can get you ranking higher than doing it the long, but better, manual way.

[jackson992]

Hi Mel:

For the topic nav these are just generic category links to go to the correct pages. Naturally I do have auto accessories pages further in for example but the home page links are the broader categories.


Not sure I understand you r point about the links at the bottom? For example if I have the link Mister Art - Discount Art Supplies I am going after the term Discount Art Supplies. Did I do this incorrectly somehow?


Also, while looking at my listings tonight I noticed a lot of my inner pages have Supplemental Index next to them. What does this mean as the pages do exist

[Dave Hawley]

Jack, create links that make sense to your human visitors. Do this and you are singing from the Google song book.

[Mel]

Hi Jack;
When I click on the Accessories link from the home page I go to a page that is selling shoes, and has a page title like this:
<title>Buy Men's Dress Shoes From Jack's Retail</title>

This has a couple of problems:

It is unlikely that buyers for shoes are going to click this link to find shoes.

The anchor text accessories is not supporting the ojective of the page which is to sell shoes.

Now suppose that link said Mens shoes, this would make sense to the searcher and google would give the page that is linked to credit for the term mens shoes which would help its rankings.