Google Adwords Suspicion

incognito · #1 (**permalink**) 07-18-2003, 06:52 AM

Firstly let me say I have no proof of what I am about to write, it is pure suspicion and would like to know if others share the same experience.

There is no doubt that adwords have bought visitors to my site, however, I am suspicious of the quality and legitimacy of some of these visitors for the following reasons:-

I have a bell that rings when somebody enters my site whichever page they enter. I am also told where they came from, the search term used and the pages each person visits (in real time). I have been measuring this activity for some weeks now.

Without Adwords I get between 30 - 100 visitors per day. With Adwords activated I get up to around 200. However:-

When Adwords is not activated visitors almost always visit a minimum of 2 pages and more. Visitors coming from my Adword banner almost always visit one page and leave.

Visitors from adwords stay on one page for less than a minute and then leave the site, whereas, regular search engine visitors generally stay for over three minutes.

When my Adword banner is activated I almost always get 3 visitors within about 30 seconds. e.g. "ding" "ding" "ding." It might go quiet for half an hour or so and then again "ding" "ding" "ding." There is no pattern when Adwords is switched off.

Further, my site is for a small area in the uk and my Key Words reflect this. Yet, most of the IP addresses received via Adwords, are International.

Many people come from my Adword banner where the search term does not match my Key Words.

I also find it strange that the Adwords counter is not updated in real time. This doesn't make sense to me.

So my questions are:-

Do third parties get paid if my adword banner is clicked? (not adsense).

Does anybody know of a way of a way of proving the above?

Do people believe that, with the introduction of Adsense, this opens the Adwords market up to abuse?

Does anybody know why the Adwords counter is not updated in real time?

Does anybody else share the same suspicions?

xsurveys · #2 (**permalink**) 07-19-2003, 11:57 AM

I've used adwords - and experienced no such thing :)
Also - as far as not updating in real time - I don't know how much experience youhave had with databases - but dealing with a database the size of theirs - it would be too taxing to update everything instantly - that is simply too many requests on the database. They probably do it in batch several times a day .

I agree that I didn't think the traffic from the adwords was quality traffic - or rather it may have been quality but they weren't buying. However the design of my site almost forces people to click multiple times - so my traffic had a productivity of %500 or more ( 5 clicks per user ). So I don't know . Just don't put too much money into ad words. Search engine traffic is better if you can channel it in your direction.

webproguy · #3 (**permalink**) 07-19-2003, 12:15 PM

In our tests, Adwords produces leads ... but unfortunately, lousy ones. In my opinion a very low percentage of clickers use Google for serious purposes like making business purchasing decisions.

ibuiltDOTnet · #4 (**permalink**) 07-19-2003, 04:08 PM

The best way to track the quality of your Internet Marketing Campaigns is to use the software provide by Clicktracks.com

ClickTracks Statistical Reporting Software

With their software, you can track whether a visitor made a purchase (or signed up for whatever), how long they were on the site, where they clicked through from, what keyword they used, etc... Simply the best...

**ctabuk** · #5 (**permalink**) 07-21-2003, 06:03 AM

Hi, I agree with your comments, I also think despite what Google tell me that multiple 'spamming' from competitors occurs very regularly. So I keep my bids down to £10 per day. David Castle CTAB

ali · #6 (**permalink**) 07-22-2003, 08:13 PM

Hi I'm a new member but have been using Google to target UK only users.

To date it has been successful apart from a period where the quality dropped. This was when Google started linking to aol. I switched it off and things returned to normal.

As a recruiting site I can assess quality by the amount of visitors who request the information on offer, register in my team and actually 'DO' something once they have been trained.

80% of the people who have evaluated the opportunity and have registered are now building a business.

The site offers enough information to help the visitor decide if it's for them and those who look further are drip fed information by autoresponder over the course of 11 days, the important part being that at the end of that period I am left with the people who really are interested and therefore don't end up wasting time on people who aren't.

The downside is that it is expensive, but it does work for me.

Digger51 · #7 (**permalink**) 07-23-2003, 08:46 PM

I would just about swear that quality (sales) and quantity drops for me at the end of the month. I can prove the quantity part but not the qualtiy part. I can't explain it and Google either can't or won't.

incognito · #8 (**permalink**) 07-25-2003, 10:42 AM

xsurveys said:- ...As far as not updating in real time - I don't know how much experience youhave had with databases - but dealing with a database the size of theirs - it would be too taxing to update everything instantly - that is simply too many requests on the database.

I do not accept this explanation. Google have masses of resources. For it to take 4 hrs to update is ludicrous and can only be there so that you or I cannot measure multiple clicks on your Adword banner. How is it that they can produce hundreds of thousands of websites immediately and they can't add 1 digit to, what effectively is a spreadsheet.

Webpro guy said...In our tests, Adwords produces leads ... but unfortunately, lousy ones. In my opinion a very low percentage of clickers use Google for serious purposes like making business purchasing decisions.

I wonder what the true % is if spammers were discouraged from doing what they do. Google are doing nothing to stop this fraud.

ibuiltDOTnet...Does your software track deeper than the IP address? Can we find the person responsible report him/her and sue?

ctabuk said I agree with your comments, I also think despite what Google tell me that multiple 'spamming' from competitors occurs very regularly. So I keep my bids down to £10 per day.

If multiple spamming occurs regularly and, they know about it. What are they doing about it? Can they limit payment from IP addresses to just one per day? Of course they can. Will they? Of course they wont because they make money off the spammers. If they know it goes on and are doing nothing about it, then they are opening themselves up to litigation if somebody can prove it.

Ali said...80% of the people who have evaluated the opportunity and have registered are now building a business.

Great numbers Ali, however, how many people did not evaluate the opportunity? How much did this cost you? How would you feel if you found that somebody is clicking away on your Adword banner with no intention of evaluating?

Diggers51 said...I would just about swear that quality (sales) and quantity drops for me at the end of the month. I can prove the quantity part but not the qualtiy part. I can't explain it and Google either can't or won't.

Google don't want to, as I said above, they could halt, limit most of the spam but why should they? They make money out of it.

I sell nothing on my site, I provide information about a particular topic in one corner of the UK. The spam hits almost always seem to come in 3s. It's rarely an identicle IP address, but sometimes it is. (so limiting payment to just one IP address/per day would probably not work).

They almost always come from the Google search engine.

They type in a specific search phrase.

They enter the first page of the site. It is clear that I have the information that they want. (according to the search phrase). This information is on another page.

They click off.

Sometimes the same person with the same IP address comes on seconds later. Via the same Google Adword and clicks straight off. I've even had them do it 3 or 4 times within a minute.

So, if anybody can answer the questions in my initial post, maybe we could force Google to act. This fraud not only costs us money per click, it throws out stats, screws up your true Alexa rankings and, could effectively lower the selling price of your business in the future.

Gary Golden · #9 (**permalink**) 08-02-2003, 08:22 AM

They have provided me alot of click through but no sales. My click through ration has increased to almost 2%, though that does not mean anything if no one is buying. I hope that it is an actual person clicking and not something computer generated. Well I guess that it would be computer generated even if an actual person click! Oh, Well you get the general idea!

Paulo · #10 (**permalink**) 08-02-2003, 10:02 AM

Very interesting, check your stats.

Opera allows automated re-visit every X seconds/minutes/whatever. Pick from the list or enter your own numbers. Tie that in with some software that allows routing through multiple hubs, again specify the number up to 15, and you get an interesting combo.

Opera reload every 30 seconds, Blast Transfer to 3 hubs...

Steven Glover · #11 (**permalink**) 08-11-2003, 04:08 PM

hehehhee . Quit teaching them how to build bombs, :)

krishmandal · #12 (**permalink**) 01-08-2004, 06:03 PM

[quote="xsurveys"]...dealing with a database the size of theirs - it would be too taxing to update everything instantly ...quote]

Though I can agree with you on a technical issue here, on smaller to medium sized sites, if Google plans to do this sort of volume, their [stuff] should be enterprise-level, not LAMP-level.

Reminds me of how e-Bay thought it could do business in the beginning as its servers went down every few hours, and sometimes for days at a time.

No, if you're going to be raking in the kind of money that Google does, then database updates should be instant...even if delayed by just a few seconds, but not minutes.

kodiak-seller · #13 (**permalink**) 01-12-2004, 10:09 AM

I am in full agreement.

There is no doubt that adwords have bought visitors to my site, however, I am suspicious of the quality and legitimacy of some of these visitors.
I have e-mailed google with my concerns. I believe(but can't prove) that my competitors are clicking on my site to use up my campaign dollars. A Click is made to the home page, but no products are ever looked at. This really stinks. My cash is tight and I don't know who to trust or who can help me.

My product is world class, FREE shipping, VERY agressive prices, American Made, huge selection.....

Where should I turn?

Dave Seek
www.kodiak-cutting-tools.com

ctfitch · #14 (**permalink**) 02-09-2004, 11:28 AM

I've noticed that the clicks go up and the pageviews stay at one from Google. You picture somebody clicking all the boxes and looking at the first page and jetting. Try linking your AdWord campaign to a special landing page catered for exactly that keyword. I got really good results with that approcah. They search for a keyword. You show them exactly what you want to see. Two clicks. your box and then submit. my 2 cents.

Master Mind · #15 (**permalink**) 02-16-2004, 12:31 PM

As to the quality visitors you can know in advance. It's false category.

They are either all 'people' or all 'bots' or somewhere in between.

Whether they come from a targetted adword or not - you cannot know who it is or what their motivation for clicking over is.

You simply assume it's targetted and the people are interested - but that may not be the case.

They may be coming to your page, because they are the competiton and want to look at your site, because your ad got them curious, because they want to check your prices, because they are looking for a gift in your genre. Who knows for sure.
No one.

Do adwords get traffic? sure. Do they get sales? Sometimes. Depends on the potential viewrs perception of the offers and the prices on the pages they go to.

You pays your money and takes your chances.
It's no different from any other type of traffic you pay for - it's either worth it or not FOR YOU at the price you pay.

Ad Alligator · #16 (**permalink**) 02-20-2004, 01:29 PM

Hi all,

Just thought it would be a good idea to share my ad words campaign summary here so that the ones just starting out can figure out how it goes on with Ad Words.

Also I'll try to post it daily so that you can comment on any aspect of it.

With google ad words I have seen quite a success, but indeed it "IS COSTLY". My last month's spending comes to $365.00 and sales $1800.00.. so thats a profit of 1400 or so.

I am quite sure that I could have done better. The trend I have seen with Ad Words is this:

The month starts with a BANG.
Continues till 14th or 17th then sales drop drastically upto 0 a day!

Sales pick up from 25th or so till the end.

So all in all there is a sales drop period I go through each month.

Here's my campaign summary for yesterday:
Clicks

Ad Group Name Current Status Max CPC Clicks Impr. CTR Avg. CPC Cost Avg. Pos
Ad Group #1 Active $0.30 24 3,754 0.6% $0.20 $4.69 3.6
ezine Ads Active $0.21 14 1,234 1.1% $0.16 $2.28 2.8
ad blaster Active $0.10 10 475 2.1% $0.07 $0.72 2.4
Ad Group #2 Active $0.25 6 509 1.1% $0.16 $0.98 3.3
classified Active $0.30 5 3,315 0.1% $0.16 $0.79 2.7
Solo Ads Active $0.30 4 101 3.9% $0.24 $0.94 2.3
Bulk email marketing Active $0.25 2 1,077 0.1% $0.15 $0.30 3.6
safelist Active $0.26 2 156 1.2% $0.24 $0.47 2.5
ip advertising Active $0.10 1 200 0.5% $0.05 $0.05 3.2
Ad Group #3 Ad Group Deleted $0.30 0 0 - - - -
Internet Marketing Active $0.25 0 70 0.0% - - 16.7
Total - all 11 Ad Groups - - 68 10,891 0.6% $0.17 $11.22 3.2

Feel free to pass on any comments or questions or suggestions.

Have a great day!

PS:- I made over $180 yesterday...not bad I guess
http://www.1clickpromotion.com

starguru · #17 (**permalink**) 07-07-2004, 03:28 PM

Google are nothing more than thieves cloaked in respectability.

My bill for one week was over $360.

Before using google adwords my sales were about 1 sale in every 50 visitors, when I used google adwords I got an extra 200 hits every day all week, but did I get any extra sales NO.

I actually went to the bother of asking all the buyers (15 which would be a normal week without using adwords)for that week if they found my site through google adwords and none of them did.

I just found this too suspicious for my liking, and I stopped the payment and there is no way I am going to pay, was about 5 months ago now, I invited them to take me to court to prove that they had sent all these visitors to my site as I am absolutely certain most of them were computer generated.

The entire system is so open to abuse.

If a competitor outbids you on a keyword then you know hes paying something like $1, so you just find his site every 30 mins and click him, then he will have a big bill,

My opinion

Does Google send fake adwords visitors YES
Do competitors click your ad YES

How much of the traffic is actually real people clicking. Anyway Ive give up with this ads rubbish wasted enough money, Im trying a new way of promotion called links virus, you just add your link t the page and other members add it to their front page ,, its just been started 2 days ago so get in and get your site listed near the top for future good exposure at http://www.linksvirus.com

Cheers starguru

Duncan Pollock · #18 (**permalink**) 07-07-2004, 10:48 PM

I have some difficulty in believing that Google is playing games with their AdWords customers. I'm also not readily convinced that there are folk out there deliberately clicking on a competitor ad(s) to push up the cost of them.
But even if both suspicions can be proven, it surely all comes down to what Master Mind says: you pays your money and you makes your choices.
In other words, advertising of any kind has a cost associated with it and results that don't suit you are part of it, whatever reason lies behind the figures.
If you aren't satisfied with what Adwords are doing (as in "not doing") for you, just quit. Unlike other media opportunities, you don't have to sign a contract with Google, do you?

Duncan

mont7071 · #19 (**permalink**) 07-10-2004, 06:43 PM

best advice I have is to contact your Google rep, and email them the weblogs showing what you think are false clicks. They don't necessarily do anything about it right then, but after I griped, 2 weeks later I got a "False click credit" from Google for several hundred dollars, and I still get a similar credit from them about every 2 months, despite the fact I've never complained to them since. I don't know if they just want to keep us quiet, but I sincerely doubt Google would have bothered to do so if I hadn't complained to them AND sent them evidence of what seemed to be false clicks. Squeaky wheels get the grease when it comes to Google PPC.

fryman · #20 (**permalink**) 07-12-2004, 03:52 AM

Starguru, I like your idea about the linksvirus, but why do you force people to put the links on their homepage? I have a PR5 link page where I could pur those links. I think you need to change that, not many people are willing to add 5 totally unthemed links to their homepage.

djrunnels · #21 (**permalink**) 07-12-2004, 11:22 AM

[quote="Gary Golden"]"They have provided me alot of click through but no sales."

That has been my experience with Google, too. I wrote a clever ad--probably too clever--in Olde English verbiage combined with "ren faire" and "renaissance faire" in a gazillion different key word combinations. (I sell primitive hand woven wool handbags that appeal to ren faire folks and other people looking for primitive and unusual handbags.) My click-through rate climbed very high. But once these people landed on the designated page of thumbnails, they seldom clicked on any of the thumbnails to see a description.

I was left scratching my head as to what could have deterred them from investigating further. Price? They did not know the price unless they clicked on a thumbnail and read a complete description. (I have since changed that.) ...Didn't like the bags? Sane adults practically caress and drool over these same bags when they see them in person because they are that unique and cool....Other handbag makers checking out the competition? Maybe. But not many people make primitive handbags and those who do make LEATHER ones, not hand woven wool ones. And there aren't even enough of THOSE people to justify the high stats.

I revised my ad to something more direct and less clever, to decrease the curiosity seekers. I am still getting a pretty good click-through, still scratching my head...and now I am suspicious, too.