Finding the modifiers. Is this possible?

[pt-mike]

Hi all I have a question about Google Adwords:

Lets say I set up an adword group with the keyword phrase "music for". This would then trigger any search with the phrase matched to "music for" including any words before or after it.

So the ad is triggered for example:

"music for"
good "music for"
"music for" driving
good "music for" driving

As my ad my is set to trigger for "music for" is there any way I can check my google analytics or web logs or anything to find out what words were used in addition to my phrase "music for"?

I would really appreciate your help.

Thanks

Mike

[mawells]

As long as you have web hosting or third-party (Google analytics) stat tracking you can find the exact phrases used to find your site. Usually these are listed in the "referrers" or the "search engine" area of your stats. They are called either "keywords" or "keyword phrases" or "key phrases" depending on the software.

If you setup your Google analytics software correctly, you should be able to see which ones are from natural (organic) placement and which are from paid placement.

[deepsand]

1) Raw server logs will show all of the query strings. For Google, they will look like the following:

http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&q=Penn+State+football+tickets&btnG=Go

Your host may provide an analytics service that uses your server logs, such that you can easily views keyword statistics.

2) Google Analytics (GA) itself captures data on the referrer side. Assuming that you have GA set-up for the site in question, you can view keyword data from within your AdWords account by going to Analytics > View Reports > Traffic Sources > Keywords.

[pt-mike]

Great and thank you for all your help. I have my own sites on my own servers as I run a small hosting business. I have set up google analyitics. My question was: is the full search term, including the modifiers passed along with the "specific keyword" along to GA and various other web stats programs or is it just the "specific keyword"?. As I am specifying a "keyword phrase" I am also fishing to see what modifiers are caught along with it. As I'm fairly new to adwords I was not sure.

If it works the way I believe it does, then is real cool.

Thanks

Mike

[activeco]

As already replied, the full search phrase/query is passed along.
If you want more flexibility, you can add extra parameters to your landing url, e.g. mysite.com/landing.html?mypar=base_search_phrase

[incrediblehelp]

mike GA doesnt filter out keywords without you applying filters so you should be seeing all the keyword referrers from the raw logs.

[pt-mike]

Thank you all for the help and advice.

I have another question:

I have set up a campaign with an ad group targeting my "keyword phrase". I have set the target to UK market only to keep costs low to test my ads. I now have a 10.7% CTR and I find it hard to write an ad to beat it so my next move is to target the US market.

Now should I create a seperate campaign but targeted to the US market only so that I can pay seperate CPC prices for uk and us? or

If I add the US to my UK campaign, will I pay the different prices anyway and my average CPC is an average of the high prices of the US and the lower prices of the UK?

I assume that this is how the adwords system works. We pay different bids for whichever country triggered the ad. Otherwise we would have to create a seperate campaign for each country.

I think I answered my own question there but would like it confirmed if anyone can.

Thanks again

Regards

Mike

[deepsand]

Your cost-per-click is independent of where the ad is displayed, but rather is dependent on the bids of other advertisers whose ads are simultaneously displayed or eligible for display.

As the advertisers in each market may 1) be different, and/or 2) have set up separate campaigns by market for the purpose of independently controlling their costs by market, you should set up separate campaigns so as to have such independent control.

[pt-mike]

Yes I asked the question to google too.

Because I believe that competing in the US is going to cost me more than the UK but read what google said:

************************************************** *************************
Hello Mike,

Thank you for your email. I understand you would like to add the US as a targeting location to your campaign which is currently targeting UK and you would like to know if the CPC for different countries would be different.

Please remember that the average CPC bids of keywords are not determined by your targeting but by the relevance of your ad text, landing page the keywords' history on the Google's search network, the competition and other relevant factors. It has nothing to do with the location from where the ad is clicked. I have explained this is details below

When you create your campaign, you choose how much you are willing to pay for clicks on the keywords in each of your ad groups. If the CPC that you have specified is higher than what is necessary for your ad to maintain its position, you will pay the minimum amount needed, thanks to our AdWords Discounter. The AdWords Discounter automatically reduces your actual CPC so you pay the lowest possible price for your ad's position on the page. This varies with every search.

You can specify CPC bid amounts for individual keywords or a default CPC bid for your ad group.

Additionally, you can include as many locations to your targeting, but this will not affect your average CPC. That again will be decided by the Quality score of your keywords. The higher the Quality score of your keywords the lower your costs.

************************************************** *************************

Maybe their systems can level it all out in the end but I would rather run two campaigns so I can see exactly what is going on.

This morning my UK campaign was at 10% CTR and when I added the USA to the campaign it dropped like a stone so I put it back to being seperate.

I just do not know or have faith about what goes on at googles back end.

Thanks for your help.

Regards

Mike

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by pt-mike

Yes I asked the question to google too.

Because I believe that competing in the US is going to cost me more than the UK but read what google said:

************************************************** *************************
Hello Mike,

Thank you for your email. I understand you would like to add the US as a targeting location to your campaign which is currently targeting UK and you would like to know if the CPC for different countries would be different.

Please remember that the average CPC bids of keywords are not determined by your targeting but by the relevance of your ad text, landing page the keywords' history on the Google's search network, the competition and other relevant factors. It has nothing to do with the location from where the ad is clicked. I have explained this is details below

When you create your campaign, you choose how much you are willing to pay for clicks on the keywords in each of your ad groups. If the CPC that you have specified is higher than what is necessary for your ad to maintain its position, you will pay the minimum amount needed, thanks to our AdWords Discounter. The AdWords Discounter automatically reduces your actual CPC so you pay the lowest possible price for your ad's position on the page. This varies with every search.

You can specify CPC bid amounts for individual keywords or a default CPC bid for your ad group.

Additionally, you can include as many locations to your targeting, but this will not affect your average CPC. That again will be decided by the Quality score of your keywords. The higher the Quality score of your keywords the lower your costs.

************************************************** *************************

Maybe their systems can level it all out in the end but I would rather run two campaigns so I can see exactly what is going on.

This morning my UK campaign was at 10% CTR and when I added the USA to the campaign it dropped like a stone so I put it back to being seperate.

I just do not know or have faith about what goes on at googles back end.

Thanks for your help.

Regards

Mike

While Google's response is correct, it also glosses over the critical factor here involved, i.e. your competition in a given market.

The bid amount required for acceptable placement, i.e. position, may vary greatly from one market to another, simply because the merchants active in each market may be different and/or bidding different amounts. Therefore, with a single campaign, with a single bid amount, the bid required for acceptable placement in one market may be significantly greater than that needed for another, such that you either pay too much in the less competitive market or place too low in the more competitive one.

[pt-mike]

Originally Posted by incrediblehelp

mike GA doesnt filter out keywords without you applying filters so you should be seeing all the keyword referrers from the raw logs.

Well I did a test. I searched for on google: testword1 mykeyword testword2

"mykeyword" being the one that triggers the ad.

I did this on the 20 June so two days later today I should see the result in Google Analytics

There is no mention of: "testword1 mykeyword testword2" in GA only "mykeyword" is shown.

So I check my raw log files and surely enough the full string is in there: "testword1 mykeyword testword2"

I also check awstats and obviously it is in there too: "testword1 mykeyword testword2"

So when someone searches google, they see a sponsored ad, they click it and go through to the landing page the full keyword string is then logged in my server stats but Google Analytics is only showing the keyword that triggered the ad and is not showing the modifiers.

I have not applied any filters to my adwords account. It is a very simple setup.

Maybe if some one wants to they could run a test.

I'll ask Google too.

Thanks

Mike

[incrediblehelp]

Just because you dont see the ranking doesnt mean someone in Ohio see it, someone in Oregon see it, etc. Rankings are NOT static for everyone.

[activeco]

Originally Posted by incrediblehelp

Just because you dont see the ranking doesnt mean someone in Ohio see it, someone in Oregon see it, etc. Rankings are NOT static for everyone.

Sunday morning?

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by pt-mike

Well I did a test. I searched for on google: testword1 mykeyword testword2

"mykeyword" being the one that triggers the ad.

I did this on the 20 June so two days later today I should see the result in Google Analytics

There is no mention of: "testword1 mykeyword testword2" in GA only "mykeyword" is shown.

So I check my raw log files and surely enough the full string is in there: "testword1 mykeyword testword2"

I also check awstats and obviously it is in there too: "testword1 mykeyword testword2"

So when someone searches google, they see a sponsored ad, they click it and go through to the landing page the full keyword string is then logged in my server stats but Google Analytics is only showing the keyword that triggered the ad and is not showing the modifiers.

I have not applied any filters to my adwords account. It is a very simple setup.

Maybe if some one wants to they could run a test.

I'll ask Google too.

Thanks

Mike

Hm-mm; this is backwards of what it should be.

AdWords Reports gives data at the keyword level, for those which you've bid on.

Google Analytics gives data at the query string level, without regard to AdWords, at Analytics > View Reports > Traffic Sources > Keywords . Go to Analytics > Edit , and make sure that the Profile Settings for Exclude URL Query Parameters: does not show "Yes."

BTW, GA provides query string data only for traffic that they refer to your site, as it does not have access to your server logs. For traffic from other referrers, such as Yahoo, MSN, etal., you'll need to either 1) use an analytics package that does use your server logs, or 2) extract such data from said logs yourself.

[pt-mike]

Google Analytics gives data at the query string level, without regard to AdWords, at Analytics > View Reports > Traffic Sources > Keywords . Go to Analytics > Edit , and make sure that the Profile Settings for Exclude URL Query Parameters: does not show "Yes."

Ok I checked the above and it does not show "yes"

I checked all keywords again and it only shows the keywords that I have bids for. I know from looking at my server logs there should be a lot more.

Can anyone confirm this? Is it a GA thing or is it just my account?

Thanks

Mike

[deepsand]

Can you provide a screen shot of the GA Report that shows keywords without complete query strings?

[pt-mike]

They are just single words without any words before or after the keyword. And the keyword arte the words that trigger the click. A screen shot would not tell you anything more other than what my keywords are and the stats that these keywords generate.

Does anyone else experience this? Is this normal for GA?

Thanks

Mike

[deepsand]

Screen shots will show us precisely where in GA you are.

[pt-mike]

Ok here's a screenshot.

The only keywords that were in the list are the ones that trigger the ad. I think I have the correct GA page. I do not believe that the bounces are bounces. These are opt in pages. I think the form submission is showing up as a bounce.

[IMG]file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Mike/Desktop/Image1.jpg[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Mike/Desktop/Image1.jpg[/IMG]

[deepsand]

That appears to be the Traffic Sources > AdWords > AdWords Campaigns area.

To view Query Strings you need to got to Traffic Sources > Keywords.

[pt-mike]

No it is not.

It is traffic sources > keywords.

If I go to Adwords > Adword Campaigns I get a list of all my campaigns by campaign name.

The Screenshot is traffic sources > keywords.

In the screenshot at the top of the keyword list in the first column heading it says "keyword" and not "campaign".

If I go to Adwords > Adword Campaigns I get a list of all my campaigns by campaign name.

The screenshot is 100% without doubt of my keywords page and it only shows the keyword that triggered the ad and does not include the modifiers either before or after the keyword. Yet they are in the server logs. So it appears that GA is stripping these out. Unless someone else does a test to find out. It will cost you a click on your own ad and a wait of 24 hours for it to "not" show in GA. Take your keyword and put some weired words before and after a "phrase match" word and search google to find your ad then click it and wait. Then check your server logs for the weired words you used.

Thanks

[deepsand]

I said "appears to be" because the screen shot does not show the entire screen, but only a portion of it. (It also appears that you've edited the image so as to remove the data displayed in the "keyword" column.)

And, within the "AdWords" > "AdWords Campaigns" area, you can drill down from "Campaign" to "Ad Group" to view "Keyword" level data.

Without having direct access to your account, and therefore not being able to view all settings, report screens, etc., it's exceedingly difficult to determine what's happening. It's like a doctor trying to diagnose a seemingly diseased patient via telephone, with only the patient's verbal description as guide.

Therefore, I can but suggest that you address the matter with Google.

Please let us know of the outcome.

[infrascape]

This landing page is good.