Is Flash The Future Of The Internet?

greeneagle · #1 (**permalink**) 08-02-2005, 07:44 AM

Is Flash The Future Of The Internet?

We want Flash Developers Input in this Marketing Forum thread!

http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=49699

Ken

**ctabuk** · #2 (**permalink**) 08-02-2005, 08:52 AM

I thought you had enough on your plate!

David

greeneagle · #3 (**permalink**) 08-02-2005, 09:44 AM

David,

You and I both know that the Flash Developers over here might be interested in contributing "Straight From The Horses Mouth" on this topic!

I want to hear it straight from the source after they review the sites I have posted!

I want to hear their take on whether that is where the Internet is going, in their opion!

I have posted several impressive Flash sites in that "Marketing Thread" and I want it to come alive from Flash Developers "in the know"!

You are D___ right I have more on my plate than I need right now, but "The Future of the Internet" and "What Monies are Lining Which Pockets Right Now" are important topics for my and many other company’s futures!

I sincerely hope we can draw some of the experts over here to offer their expertise for us, over there!

Ken

irodgers · #4 (**permalink**) 07-14-2006, 02:40 PM

Judging by the age of this post the question is - Was flash the future of the internet?

Only joking, I'm still hoping that Flash will be more widely used and understood. There's a lot of stuff about it being bad for SEO that just isn't true.

GoaTrancer · #5 (**permalink**) 09-12-2006, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greeneagle

Is Flash The Future Of The Internet?

We want Flash Developers Input in this Marketing Forum thread!

http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=49699

Ken

How do u think? When will we open total 3d web worlds (more advanced then VRML) but non this pages.

jgarner · #6 (**permalink**) 09-12-2006, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irodgers

Judging by the age of this post the question is - Was flash the future of the internet?

Only joking, I'm still hoping that Flash will be more widely used and understood. There's a lot of stuff about it being bad for SEO that just isn't true.

Agreed. There used to be a lot of problems as an SEO Specialists that I would run into with Flash sites. But My designer friend can do some really neat things in 8 that makes use of readable text, thus creating some of the most beautiful (yeah I'm secure enough to use such a word), SEO friendly sites. I think Flash is the way of the future. AND THE FUTURE IS NOW!!!...ahem...sorry.

levelfourdesigns · #7 (**permalink**) 09-19-2006, 12:18 AM

Flash is absolutely the futre of the web... Flex has been released to increase the platform a bit, but either way they are the same technology, being pushed on a player format that has 98% customer base, mobile platform, etc.

Not only are high end companies using it to leverage their products. Nike.com and others are leveraging it in small doses, but RIA's are on the rise and will soon make the business we do on the Internet more interactive.

If you look at it from a developers side, we can use flash remoting that leverages all the cool things PHP, ASP, and JAVA can do. We leverage ActionScript and the flash player for all the cool things it can do design wise. We aren't talking about just flash, but the fact that IT can interact and use a lot of other web technologies, while the others can't simply digest any services but their own.

Next step, integrate a full 3D engine like shockwave into the ever popular flash player customer base and programmers have unlimited abilities in development in a portable platform...

just my two cents worth.

Josh Jones
www.levelfourstorefront.com

orangemike · #8 (**permalink**) 09-19-2006, 05:12 PM

Is it tacky to mention how much many end users hate Flash; and how many folks out there still find it makes a site unusable due to download times and display issues?

Irishjim · #9 (**permalink**) 09-19-2006, 05:15 PM

Although your call to arms is for flash developers, Josh, as a "former" flash developer, I'd like to chime in if you don't mind.

Certainly flash has problems with the search engines. Anyone who doesn't think so, isn't looking at SERP's.

I suspect this is more the fault of the algorithms than the designers but some if this fault lies with the ego entry page that has become such a pain on the web.

Can you imagine in the real world (you mean this isn't real?) telling someone they'll have to watch your crappy home movies before they can buy something from you?

All this aside, here's where I think Flash goes really wrong.

It takes a good bit of expertise to develop an fla file that can be converted into a swf file.

Sounds tidy but what does your client do when you jet off to Spain and decide to persue wine tasting for the rest of your life?

He's out in the cold.

We had this same problem a few years ago with Java and this powerful tool fell afoul of the public when folks were left by their web gurus and found they had tools they couldn't modify.

I liked it... even learned how to do it but it was too cumbersome for the general public and JavaScript eventually took over as a primary navigation tool.

Anyway, sorry for the lengthy ramble but my money says flash will stay around as long as it's a good little puppy and doesn't take over the whole site.

bj · #10 (**permalink**) 09-19-2006, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Flash is absolutely the futre of the web... Flex has been released to increase the platform a bit, but either way they are the same technology, being pushed on a player format that has 98% customer base, mobile platform, etc.

Fully one third of the US is still on dialup. Until this changes I don't see flash being the be all and end all you make it out to be.

Though I think flash does VERY well at delivering video and audio content, I would dispute that anyone can say it is the definitive future of the web. Yes, it has its place. Personally for GUI on the desktop it's often ideal. Tutorials? Fabulous! But until we have much more bandwidth available to many more people on many different devices and in many rural areas of the country, I don't think that a blanket statement like that has validity.

I would also dispute the validity of the 98% customer base. One of the most POPULAR downloads at FireFox is the FlashBlocker extension, which says a lot about the feelings of people who are having flash plugin installations shoved down their throat whether they want them or not. It's obvious a lot don't.

Where did that statistic come from? Flash Developers? Adobe? Where?

And was that statistic a pre-IE lawsuit thing or post-lawsuit?

greeneagle · #11 (**permalink**) 09-19-2006, 05:21 PM

Irishjim:

Quote:

"Certainly flash has problems with the search engines. Anyone who doesn't think so, isn't looking at SERP's.

I suspect this is more the fault of the algorithms than the designers but some lies in the ego entry page that has become such an eyesore on the web."

I think that is just part of the story Jim...Most "Flash" pages I see don't have much content, at least not real spider food. They tend to focus on a flash in the pan with no meat cooking, similar in content to code ratio as many little HTML online business card Sites that never go anywhere either.

I think Flash is better deployed to augment a Site, not build it.

Ken

orangemike · #12 (**permalink**) 09-19-2006, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irishjim

I suspect this is more the fault of the algorithms than the designers but some lies in the ego entry page that has become such an eyesore on the web.

Can you imagine in the real world (you mean this isn't real?) telling someone they have to watch your home movies before they can buy something from you?

An "Amen!" for the gentleman from County Clare, from a fellow whose people came from Fermanagh. The only thing a lot of end users know about Flash is, "That's that annoying crap I have to sit through before I can actually use so many websites." Not a wise use of technology, to start off by irritating your guest!!!! I've yet to see a one of those 'ego entry pages' (love the phrase) that was other than an irritation.

jacobwissler · #13 (**permalink**) 09-19-2006, 05:23 PM

A website done in 100% Flash has value only to a company like Nike, that has only one key word: Nike. Flash can be used to create a lot of wiz bang amazing stuff www.seohouston.com/intro.htm but for the normal business that wants to create sales the future is Flash embedded on an html page, which will allow for both proper optimization and show.

You will notice that I have embedded the Flash in a way that validates W3C. http://www.seohouston.com/webdesign/index.htm (P.S. Ken from Mountain Eagle taught me how to do that).

csutoras · #14 (**permalink**) 09-19-2006, 05:26 PM

For all my years on the internet the only thing flash has done for me is have me searching for the skip button or clicking the red x.

I have been impressed by the very minimal use of it in some regards but overall it is best left to cool video games you can play online.

I do like some imbedded flash in say a logo or in menus but when it is a intro it is annoying and nothing more to me.

Why do we forget so much in the chase to look cool and rank high that the customer still has to be happy. Flash doesnt make people or customer happy. It only makes the developer and the owner of the site happy.

This is audio on the site all over again.

philscanlan · #15 (**permalink**) 09-19-2006, 05:28 PM

XML and web services, as a transient means of exchanging information between applications (including flash), are the future of the web.

If flash is the future of the web, I want nothing to do with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by levelfourdesigns

Nike.com and others are leveraging it in small doses...

Yeah, speaking of nike.com, I was on that site couple days ago trying to simply VIEW the products and information. You spend so much time learning how the UI works (gone are your standard scrollbars; gone is my ability to search text within the page), that you don't even remember what you were looking for in the first place. Grrr.

Full flash websites are a HUGE mistake. Flash should be use sparingly, like embedded images, etc. to enhance the aesthetics of a page. I'm not going to reiterate all the usability problems it creates. Not to mention that SWFs are these self contained insulated objects that can't interact with the rest of the internet (e.g. search engines)

Nothing is more important than the information and flash UI's just get in my way. If I want to see special effects and useless crap, I'll watch a movie. The only type of case that can justify full use of flash is something like an artists portfolio website or something similar that is all about the visual.

csutoras · #16 (**permalink**) 09-19-2006, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacobwissler

A website done in 100% Flash has value only to a company like Nike, that has only one key word: Nike. Flash can be used to create a lot of wiz bang amazing stuff www.seohouston.com/intro.htm but for the normal business that wants to create sales the future is Flash embedded on an html page, which will allow for both proper optimization and show.

You will notice that I have embedded the Flash in a way that validates W3C. http://www.seohouston.com/webdesign/index.htm

Even for the sake of this conversation i could not even watch the flash all the way through. And i am a patient searcher.

qirexsys · #17 (**permalink**) 09-19-2006, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by levelfourdesigns

Flash is absolutely the futre of the web...

Heh... I used to say that, back in the day. I used to proselytize to everyone about how "Flash is the future, the future is at hand, behold that which is amazing and true!" Then I found out about web standards, usability (and the tendency of flash developers to make wholly unusable sites), and myriad other reasons why Flash is called "Flash" and not "Perpetuity". That's not even touching the SEO aspects, which (I'm sure) have been much improved since the olden days. I can't think of one person I've worked with that started using Flash and didn't say the same thing.

Don't get me wrong, I dig Flash, I love the stuff people have done with it, and are doing with it, but I can't say that it's the "future of the internet." No way. It's had plenty of time to become the future (and it *has* matured tremendously, no doubt about it) but I still maintain that Flash has its time and its place, and will never become the ubiquitous standard for web development.

All that being said, it may not be the 'future', but it sure isn't going anywhere. There's plenty of support for it, plenty of interest from artists, plenty of end-user knowledge of it, and it really does put out attractive stuff. I think it'll continue to march into the future with the rest of the web technologies (as opposed to fading into obscurity), but "the future of the internet"? I'd better call Al Gore and ask him... ;)

**incrediblehelp** · #18 (**permalink**) 09-19-2006, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greeneagle

I think Flash is better deployed to augment a Site, not build it.

Right pieces of Flash on websites are a great thing and can really become link bait itself, but to say Flash is the future of the internet is not true. As BJ pointed out 33% of the world I still on dial up and as Jim pointed out flash entry pages are a terrible idea and pages composed entirely of flash are SERP poison.