Alternative to Paypal?

[littlegiant]

Hi,

I'm currently using the Paypal Buy Now buttons to sell stuff on my site. Things were going pretty good for a couple of weeks but then all of a sudden sales dropped down to nothing. I decided to test the payment process to see if there were any glitches and lo and behold, I discovered that the Paypal 'Review Your Payment' page is now throwing a Javascript error even though I haven't made any changes to the Buy Now button HTML code. I contacted Paypal about this but just in case this turns into a protracted "This is not me, it's you" debate about why the Javascript error is happening, I'm trying to set up a contingency plan to process payments on my site.

I have three questions related to this:

1) What do you think about using Paypal to process payments? I chose them largely because of branding and because you don't need to have a credit card to buy. This is important because my potential clients are definitely not accustomed to paying for things online.

2) Do you think a Javascript error is enough to put off someone from buying? I know it would scare me off.

3) Can you suggest an alternative to Paypal? I'm currently considering Google Checkout. Do you have any other suggestions? It would be really great if I could offer a non-credit-card option of payment.

Much thanks for your feedback.

[stymiee]

Originally Posted by littlegiant

1) What do you think about using Paypal to process payments? I chose them largely because of branding and because you don't need to have a credit card to buy. This is important because my potential clients are definitely not accustomed to paying for things online.

Paypal is ok if you are small or don't have other options available to you. Otherwise I would always choose a true merchant account with a payment gateway first. Far more professional and powerful.

Originally Posted by littlegiant

2) Do you think a Javascript error is enough to put off someone from buying? I know it would scare me off.

You are far pickier then most. Most people don't even know javascript errors exist. And a javascript error just means there is a javascript error. It doesn't mean anything is wrong or unsafe. It just means there is a coding issue that obviously is not important if the site is still functional. Heck, it could just be an issue with a status bar text changer which is trivial.

Originally Posted by littlegiant

3) Can you suggest an alternative to Paypal? I'm currently considering Google Checkout. Do you have any other suggestions? It would be really great if I could offer a non-credit-card option of payment.

I've heard Alertpay is okay.

[wige]

Originally Posted by littlegiant

1) What do you think about using Paypal to process payments? I chose them largely because of branding and because you don't need to have a credit card to buy. This is important because my potential clients are definitely not accustomed to paying for things online.

Paypal is probably not a bad way to go, especially if your customers are new to the web. Paypal inspires trust simply because people have heard of them. The marketing message of Paypal is so strong that the general public is inclined to trust them, regardless of how trustworthy they may be. In this case, branding and name recognition are to your benefit.

Originally Posted by littlegiant

2) Do you think a Javascript error is enough to put off someone from buying? I know it would scare me off.

Yes. A technical user would probably not be uncomfortable with a javascript error, but it does not sound like that is your target demo. The general public needs a lot of convincing before they will trust your site enough to order. The media at large is full of coverage of data theft, malicious hacking, etc. These users don't know one type of error from another. Any error message, especially in the checkout process can scare away users.

Originally Posted by littlegiant

3) Can you suggest an alternative to Paypal? I'm currently considering Google Checkout. Do you have any other suggestions? It would be really great if I could offer a non-credit-card option of payment.

The only other option I could think of would be Google Checkout - again, name recognition is important - or setting up an Ebay store. I think, but I'm not certain, that the Ebay stores use paypal.

[SnerdeyWebs]

Keep paypal use an Oscommerce Template and open the doors of merchant accounts with other services so your web site can offer all kinds of payment methods!

I'm sure it's something related to your site, computer or ?? but Paypal has been working fine for us daily

[ArthurNYC]

Originally Posted by stymiee

Paypal is ok if you are small or don't have other options available to you. Otherwise I would always choose a true merchant account with a payment gateway first. Far more professional and powerful.

Sorry but that is wrong. We process in excess of 10,000 transactions monthly and offer all major CCs AND Paypal. Over the past years we have seen Paypal use increase (much to the displeasure of my merchant banks) to over 18% of transaction from 12 just 18 months ago.

In general, most major merchants offer at least 2 payment options (there was a recent article about this in internet retailer).

A few years back, Paypal was the choice of small merchants but now it is a second option for almost all major merchants.

Arthur

[creditwrench]

I'm looking for an alternative too but I haven't found one that issues a debt card one can use in most if not all ATM machines. I really like that feature.

It is almost a must because it allows me to make purchases at gas pumps and just about any other place that accepts cards too. And of course that way there is no waiting for the funds.

So those features are important to me.

And yes, Ebay and Paypal are bed partners since ebay bought out paypal a while back.

I also like the feature that Paypal has where they will not enter into disputes unless they involve purchases that require delivery of physical goods.

[clumberman]

Originally Posted by wige

Paypal is probably not a bad way to go, especially if your customers are new to the web. Paypal inspires trust simply because people have heard of them. The marketing message of Paypal is so strong that the general public is inclined to trust them, regardless of how trustworthy they may be. In this case, branding and name recognition are to your benefit.

Yes. A technical user would probably not be uncomfortable with a javascript error, but it does not sound like that is your target demo. The general public needs a lot of convincing before they will trust your site enough to order. The media at large is full of coverage of data theft, malicious hacking, etc. These users don't know one type of error from another. Any error message, especially in the checkout process can scare away users.

The only other option I could think of would be Google Checkout - again, name recognition is important - or setting up an Ebay store. I think, but I'm not certain, that the Ebay stores use paypal.

I agree that Google Checkout has good alternative name-recognition and, were I setting up a new web site, I would almost certainly use them over PayPal. Don't forget that eBay =owns= PayPal, just one more Evil Empire, behind the one in Redmond. Don't =ever= forget that nearly all merchant processors give you, the merchant, absolutely ZERO protection against fraud, even when you do everything right and =they= authorize a transaction...and even less if it's an international order.

Lyle Knox
FGW Auction Manager

[mohsho]

I am using PayPal for memberships and conference fees for a couple of academic organizations. I find it very frustrating to work with. I would look into Google Checkout in a heartbeat if it was available in Canada. When I first setup PayPal for one of my sites, PayPal decided to do an "update" of sorts and the first day I launched my online payment system, it was broken because of some undocumented changes that they made. It's tough to do business when relying on a company with business practices such as this.

[webreporter]

Paypal just has way too many hoops for your customers to jump through. If you have a business checking account, I highly recommend that you employ a credit card processing service that works online. Then I recommend that you build a shopping cart on your site that works with the credit card processor.

I used to use PayPal until I reached a point where I was going to tear my hair out. One too many times I ran into the problem where the customer had once used PayPal but forgot their password. That was enough to make the customer change their mind about buying my services.

Online shopping is often an "impulse buy", so you don't want to throw any hurdles toward a shopper with credit card in hand. If they run into issues with the payment method, they might just say "Screw it" and move on. No one in business can afford to let that happen.

There are literally hundreds of companies out there that process credit cards and will deposit the money into your checking account within two to three days of the transaction. There are some that even do both process the cards as well as incorporate a shopping cart.

Recently I was contacted by a prospect who wanted a shopping cart on her site, so I did some research and found these sites:

Ecommerce Software, Ecommerce Solution, Online Store, Web Store, e-Commerce, Web Services, Ecommerce Company
Shopping Cart Software Ecommerce Solutions
Shopping Cart, Secure Online Shopping Carts, E-commerce websites
Shopping Cart Software & Ecommerce Solutions Products

You can get as simple or as complicated with these as you see fit. Bottom line: Take control of how your site sells your products.

[Kate Lennon]

My advice is to avoid PayPal like the plague.
I was using PP on my two main websites for two and a half years without any problem. Then, one day, I received an email from them informing me that my account was "under temporary suspension" until I sent them "verification" of my personal details. Among other things, they wanted proof of address (ie, the address I had provided them with when I first signed up with them), and proof of telephone number (the number I had given them when I signed up).
As I was no longer living at that adress (having moved to a different country a year previously), I obviously could not provide them with verification that this was still my address (and obviously the phone number wasn't valid anymore, either).
I emailed them and explained that I was no longer at the address I had given them when I first signed up with them, and asked them how I should go about updating my details.
About a month later (and several repeat emails from me), I received an email from them to say that there was no option to update these details, and unless I could verify that I was still at the address and phone number I had used when I signed up with them, my account would be permanently suspended.
I replied, pointing out the impossibility of proving that I currently lived at an address that I had left over a year ago.
I received no reply, and a message suddenly appeared on my payment processing page to say that the account had been deactivated pending verification of the account-holder's details (which must have gone down great with potential customers).
Despite numerous emails to PP over the following weeks (they didn't reply to any of them), my account remained suspended.
I had just over 500 euros in my account when they closed it, and when I tried to transfer this money to my bank, I found that I could not. The whole thing had been blocked. I also tried sending it to a friend who had a PP account, but again this was not possible.
That was two years ago. They still have my money. I stopped emailing them after more than six months of being ignored. I got through to their "customer service" on the phone once, and it was like talking to a zombie. All the guy did (he was obviously reading from a "cue card" - was repeat over and over that my funds would be "unfrozen" and my account "reactivated" when I provided them with the verification details they had requested.
The conversation went like this:
"But I am no longer at the address or phone number I was at when I signed up with you."
"Well, you need to have a current address on your account."
"So why can't I update my details?"
"This is covered in our conditions. Would you like me to send you a copy?"
"I'm not interested in reading your conditions. I'm just interested in getting my money back."
"I'm afraid you can't transfer money while your account is suspended. If you send us the verification information we requested...."
Etc.
But it actually gets worse. Not only did they suspend my account, they also terminated the recurring billing payments I was set up to receive every month from my advertisers. I lost most of these accounts.
And it gets even worse. The also closed the accounts of the people I'd sent money to over the previous year! These people (mainly programmers etc., who had carried out work for me) had their PP accounts "frozen" solely because they had received payments from a "non verified" account (even though, obviously, the account was not suspended when the payments were sent).
After that, I vowed never to have anything to do with PayPal again.
A few months ago, however, I needed to pay for some urgent programming work, and the only payment option this guy had was PayPal. Reluctantly, I submitted the payment - and it was rejected! Seems that, not only has PP stolen my money, froze my account (and those of the people I did business with), they have also "blacklisted" my credit card details to prevent me from using PP to make payments online!
I now use Verotel on one of my sites, and 2Checkout on the other, and so far I have had no problems with these.

[Peter (IMC)]

having moved to a different country a year previously

and you wonder why they are so careful?

[Peter (IMC)]

Originally Posted by webreporter

Paypal just has way too many hoops for your customers to jump through. If you have a business checking account, I highly recommend that you employ a credit card processing service that works online. Then I recommend that you build a shopping cart on your site that works with the credit card processor.

I used to use PayPal until I reached a point where I was going to tear my hair out. One too many times I ran into the problem where the customer had once used PayPal but forgot their password. That was enough to make the customer change their mind about buying my services.

Online shopping is often an "impulse buy", so you don't want to throw any hurdles toward a shopper with credit card in hand. If they run into issues with the payment method, they might just say "Screw it" and move on. No one in business can afford to let that happen.

There are literally hundreds of companies out there that process credit cards and will deposit the money into your checking account within two to three days of the transaction. There are some that even do both process the cards as well as incorporate a shopping cart.

Recently I was contacted by a prospect who wanted a shopping cart on her site, so I did some research and found these sites:

Ecommerce Software, Ecommerce Solution, Online Store, Web Store, e-Commerce, Web Services, Ecommerce Company
Shopping Cart Software Ecommerce Solutions
Shopping Cart, Secure Online Shopping Carts, E-commerce websites
Shopping Cart Software & Ecommerce Solutions Products

You can get as simple or as complicated with these as you see fit. Bottom line: Take control of how your site sells your products.

Considering the fact that this forum is also about SEO, I'd like to add this one too:
Shopping Cart Software SEO Rated #1 (Search Engine friendly shopping cart + CMS)

[jpatriar]

I'm using a modified version of the paypal shopping cart I set up years ago to allow quantity discounts.

I'd like to dump it, but since I moved from 7 to 2 in Google in the last update (the PR actually dropped from 3 to 2) for my top keyword I'm wondering if switching to something like Xcart Gold or another will change the (Google) SERP's?

Any tips/advice would be greatly appreciated.

[jackit_chick]

Wow! That's serious bull crap what large companies can get away with. That amazes me they did all that...yes their customer service does suck. That sucks.

[tkershaw]

2) Do you think a Javascript error is enough to put off someone from buying? I know it would scare me off.

I would close that tab in a heartbeat! Any page errors gets a 'No Confidence' vote from me immedatly.

To those that thought that internet users were too unsofisticated to know the difference you could not be more wrong! While I will grant there are many neophites on the web the opposite is generally true. Have you not seen the statistics on the average internet user? They are hi income well educated people who trend more towards power users than noobs.

Tony.

[littlegiant]

Thanks everyone for all the input!

stymiee,

Re: Me being pickier than most regarding Javascript errors... You gotta understand that the user doesn't get this popup reading "This is probably just a harmless Javascript error. Don't worry about it." What they see --after just finishing entering their credit card details (or signing on to their Paypal account)-- is a little notification in the bottom left corner of Internet Explorer saying "Error on page." They're probably not even aware that it's a Javascript error. They just see that it's an error of some kind. And it involves them spending money.

Kate,

What a freakin' nightmare! That is certainly food for thought. Thanks for sharing. I'm now having second thoughts about keeping any funds online in my Paypal account for purposes of convenience.

To all:

I have an update to my situation. I received a response from Paypal which consisted of nothing more than just a canned apology about the issue and then a "I will be happy to assist you with your questions." After this, the rep just copy-and-pasted verbatim from the online documentation how to create a Paypal Buy Now Button form. That's it, that's all.

Hence I decided to take the matter into my own hands because even though I'm definitely going to use the info posted in this thread to find another solution to process credit card payments, I feel that a considerable number of customers I'm dealing with will need a non-credit card form of payment available.

So what I did was I used the Firebug plugin in Firefox to nail down the Javascript error:

document.getElementById("edit-shipping-address") has no properties
[Break on this error]
document.getElementById("edit-shipping-address").style.display="none";

review.js -- line ##
document.getElementById("edit-shipping-address").style.display="none";

...and then after extensive testing I managed to create two minimal test scenarios of Buy Now Button forms. One throws the javascript error when the user processes the form and one does not. The key difference between the two is an option on the 'Add More Options' page where you select whether you would like your buyers to provide you with their shipping address. If you select 'No' and create the form, a Javascript error appears on the 'Review Your Payment' page. If you select 'Make shipping optional', no Javascript error.

Sooo.. I sent a somewhat snippy reply to Paypal outlining all this including links to the minimal test scenario pages which I made available online at my site and I'm awaiting their reply. Then I went and modified all the HTML code in my current Buy Now button forms so that they 'Make shipping optional'. This is not at all suitable to my needs but it's preferable to having the buyer get scared away by the error message. I tested the forms and they work fine now.

All in all, I'm quite peeved at having to spend three hours of my time debugging that form, something Paypal should have done but I'm happy to have corrected the error (or rather created a workaround).

Now it's a matter of waiting to see if that error message really was impacting my sales.

[CyberCrone]

I have been using PayPal for several years and have had my own troubles with them but have always been able to resolve them one way or another, sometimes with a little teeth gnashing before it was over. But I have stayed because of several advantages, not the least of which is earning 5.05 % on my balance. I use it as an interest-bearing checking account, in other words. Instead of paying a monthly service charge or $10 or $12 as I do on bank account, I EARN $10 or $12 a month on my balance.

Name recognition is also good, as someone pointed out.

The people who have recommended regular merchant accounts failed to mention that cost is a factor for small-time operators like myself; that's why I don't have one. I recently signed up with Google Checkout as it is roughly equivalent to PayPal (without the interest, however). If it goes well, I will switch to them entirely. One thing about Google. Whatever they do WORKS as it should! Or at least that's my experience. They are not charging any fees until 2008, and then, if I remember correctly, the fees will be very low.

CyberCrone

P.S. There are quite a few complaints about Alertpay (recommended by someone in this thread) on Scam.com. Read them before signing up.

[bj]

I've been using Paypal for years with no problem (knock on wood!)

I will say this to you, Kate. When you moved did you notify your bank? Your utility companies? Other places you had accounts? If so, then WHY WOULDN'T YOU NOTIFY PAYPAL? How hard is it to change an address?

It took me two minutes of filling out a form at Paypal, and they verified it with my bank within a day. Of course, I did it within a week after I moved, and didn't change banks (which I suspect, if you moved to another country, was not the case with you.) So if you had a problem with Paypal because of the situation you outlined, it was a situation you created because you didn't take care of business when you should have. Though they probably could have handled things better, so should you have.