Help tracing a fraudulent customer.

[Ian]

Well it had to happen some time i guess, we have received a e-mail from"Worldpay" that one of our customers has contacted their card issuer and desputed the transaction.We have the customers IP Address which was used to place the transaction,we also have applied for a signature of the signed for posting docket for the address we sent it to.
My question is,how do we trace the IP address to the customer?
It there any thing else we can do to trace this transaction?

[paulhiles]

The credit card details would be the best way to trace the customer. IP addresses can be all too easily masked, people can use proxy servers, access via remote servers, all manner of "dodgy" practices, so ultimately, that's not the best means of tracking back to them. If they're using a static fixed IP address then it may just be possible... but it will still be difficult.
So my advice is to focus on getting as much information about the user's credit card details as possible.

Good luck!

Paul

PS. This post has been moved into eCommerce Talk.
The forum deals with secure payment issues, shopping carts, etc.

[Corey Bryant]

It pretty much takes a court order to get the IP address information.

Can you say why they disputed the charges? That is usually the case.

Also you might want to check http://www.fraudgate.com to help with fraudulent transactions.

[jestep]

Would be good to know what the reason for the dispute is. A lot of the time the customer just forgot they ordered something, or they just didn't recognize the charge on their statement.

If you have their contact information, you can always try to call them up and try to resolve over the phone. Then when your submit your chargeback response include that you spoke to the customer etc.

[Ian]

Hi Jestep,
Thanks for your input in this matter,the reason for the dispute is given that the customer claims it was not authorized by him,the phone number is false(will not go through)
We did not have the sight of the credit card details as it was put through "Worldpay" The only thing we have is the fact that someone excepted the delivery and signed for it at the address given.

[ADAM Web Design]

Having never set up a site with WorldPay before, there's a question that I have that will seem rather stupid to those that have: does WorldPay host the payment pages or do you?

In the case of the former, they would likely have all of the details of the transaction (including IP address, although as Paul quite rightly noted this isn't necessarily accurate information) and should be able to provide you with any info they have. They should anyway, if the transaction is in dispute, since it's evidence that will help resolve it one way or the other

In the case of the latter, IP addresses can be gathered at the time of transaction via server-side programming.

For example in ASP, the code would be something like:

IP_Address = Request.ServerVariables ("REMOTE_HOST")

But that probably doesn't do you a lot of good right now since the transaction's already gone through. I'm just pointing it out to help avoid the same problem in the future.

Anyway, I got sidetracked. As Paul pointed out (smart Brit, that!) get as much info as you can on the customer and try to resolve it directly.

You may not have the luck you intend to by getting the signed delivery order. The problem is that the shipping companies don't do anything to validate the signer. An extra two minutes to have someone pull out some ID would be nice. For example, I was sick a few weeks ago and my girlfriend signed for a UPS pickup which was mine, but they didn't even check her.

Let's see...she's a girl. My name's Adam. That should raise a red flag with most drivers, but evidently it doesn't.

So you may be in the same boat.

Anyway, best way to deal with it is directly with the customer if you can, and record all correspondence and conversation (if you have to spend $50 on a tape device for your phone, do it!) Failing that, present anything you've found out and all recorded correspondence to WorldPay.

[Ian]

Thanks for that Adam,the cart is hosted by "Mals" then passed onto "WORLDPAY"
I have been reading up on this IP address thing,and it lookes like they can trace the provider but then the problem is the address is used by loads of people at differant times,but the time is in their log,so infact if we can show off our invoice the IP address/time/date the provider will have the name of the person using at that time in the logs.
I will wait till we get the copy of the signed form of Royal mail before going any further with this.
As you say about the signed for,this can be unreliable also,we shall see!

[ADAM Web Design]

I'm not big on Mal's cart (although I've only ever used the free one). But at least you've got the IP address.

Anyway, good luck to you. Keep us posted. And a little free advice...spaces after punctuation make things much easier to read.

[vwebworld]

http://www.urgentclick.com/address_trace.php

I don't know what type of account you have with
Worldpay but they have a "Fraud Protection Solution"
http://www.worldpay.co.uk/sme/datash...o=ds_guarantee

~Roland

[Ian]

Sorry about my spaces Adam, it`s a bad habbit of mine, point excepted.
There as been a new development, it turnes out that Royal mail didn`t get or lost the signed docket, so we are claiming they have lost the parcel as we have no way of proving where it was delivered. We have filed a claim with them.It was sent guarenteed post special delivery. (I will keep you posted.)

Thanks! Roland, I was aware of the worldpay cover, but after looking into it at this time we found the costs were to high against the risks. We use the AVS Security system. In this case it was us being under cautious, it didn`t give us a caution or warning, but should have checked as the writer had put a uk address but usa as the country. we have learned a lesson.

[ADAM Web Design]

Again, forgive me for asking a question that seems "newbie" but keep in mind that I am a hoser from The Great White North and you are a Jolly Old Englishman.

Anyway, I was just wondering what the "guarantee" actually guarantees. UPS, for example, has some weird limited-liability thing where they're only responsible for the value of the goods delivered up to $100 (or something like that), unless you specify otherwise or take their insurance option.

You might want to look that up on your bill. I tried looking on the Royal Mail website but it, much like most large company websites, is somewhat ambiguous.

[Ian]

That sounds about the same as royal mail to ups.

Royal mail have lots of types of delivery services, the main for UK are -:

1/Standard 2nd class. (No loss compensation)
2/Standard 1st class. (No loss compensation)
3/1st & 2nd class recorded/signed for. (Compensation, goods value up to £28.00)loss or damaged.

4/Special delivery guaranteed by 9am.Proof of delivery and tracking. Moneyback guarantee for delay.You can claim compensation of up to £250.00 for loss or damaged items.If required higher limit, just pay a upgrade fee. Possable to get cover up to £2,500.00

5/Special delivery guaranteed by 12noon.Proof of delivery and tracking. Moneyback guarantee for delay.You can claim compensation of up to £250.00 for loss or damaged items.If required higher limit, just pay a upgrade fee. Possable to get cover up to £2,500.00

We used (5) the last one by 12noon.

Because they have not provided us with proof of delivery, tecnically they have lost the item, even though they say it was delivered.
We cannot be given proof of this to use with the card issuer.
Royal mail are paying out hundreds of thousands in claims each year because the delivery men (or women) not doing there job correctly by getting the items signed for.

[brian.mark]

I think every merchant at some time has had a chargeback notice. We have disputed most of them and won, usually by supplying a combination of address delivered to, delivery proof, and signature of receipt. If you can't get the latter, it can be tough.

If the billing address was in the US, but the address given was UK, how did the AVS ever match? I'm really confused on that. Doesn't Worldpay give you AVS Address and AVS Postal Code values to look at?

Brian.

[Ian]

Hi Brian,
The postal address was UK with what we thought was a mistake on the select country drop down box, USA had been selected.
So what we had was a london address with usa country selection (which is were the card is registered according to worldpay.)
The AVS gave no warning or caution because the country matched, but it did not check the post code and address comparison for reasons only worldpay would know!
You would think if worldpay`s avs had not checked it would be automatic to give a warning!
We still await a reply from Royal mail on our claim,
i will keep all informed when we get a reply.

[GiftsForYouBiz]

I have found that using ProPay and the CVV2 code, over 95% of the time it gives a "no address match" warning. Once it even gave a "no postal code match", but it was good too.

I just had an order that stated "Plymouth" as the country, which raised a red flag with me (I won't do the automatic processing - but then I'm lucky if I get two orders per day). Anyway, I e-mailed, then called that one.

I now usually only get more studious if the invoice/delivery addresses are different.

Sometimes I'll try to even do a search on the name and/or e-mail address to see what I can find on the person ordering (one was a judge from up north, so figured that was a good sale).

I had 3 fraud submissions in one week about 6 months ago. By the 3rd, I was expert, and the guy I told had his card hiked felt I was too comfortable with telling him so he kept it short. One thing I made sure of was all 3 got the IP address (from my logs and Mals orders). That way, if they "ever" have to go federal with it, they've got that info.

But again, I don't do many orders at all, and am very curious why I always seem to get a "no address match" when they are certainly valid. Most of my customers don't type well in the first place.

[Ian]

On the point of typing, we had a customer that ordered of our site last week that was using the number 0 instead of the letter o when filling out the post code and card details,and vice-versa which threw the avs into orbit a few times. It was the first one his finger hit that went in.

[stitchit]

[quote="Ian"]Hi Jestep,
Thanks for your input in this matter,the reason for the dispute is given that the customer claims it was not authorized by him,

quote]

I'm assuming your customer and the card holder are one and the same. Note: You say the customer claims the purchase was not authorized. As I read it correctly the customer didn't claim he didn't receive the item just that he didn't authorize it. If he is a fraud artist in that respect he may not have been too smart.

Don't get too tied up in searching and qualifying all the "i"s and "t"s. Despite what you know - play dumb. Throw the ball into their court! Advise WorldPay or whoever to advise the customer to return the item to you and upon receipt you will refund the purchase price to the card it was charged on. Now whoever is complaining must change their story from "didn't authorize" to "didn't receive".

If the name of the card holder is not the same as the name of the customer you probably got stung - regardless of who may or may not have signed for the item.

You can do a search on google or yahoo for the customers name and or the name of the person who signed for the item. Sometimes if you are lucky you find them blabbing their heads off on news groups. They might in the past have posted their real address, phone no. or email address on a message board somewhere. i.e. let's say you do a search of the customers name, it may bring up other people like you claiming the guy is a fraud artist.

Big consideration - Is it worth the effort???