Greedy little worms

[MrLeN]

I think it should be against the law for companies to sit on thousands of domains to make a profit from them.

I've lost two domains because I forgot to re-register them and I'm being asked $688 for one and $6000 for the other.

There's no way I am going to pay that amount. I just wish it wasn't possible to do this. Greedy little worms :(

MrLeN

[Linda Buquet]

MrLeN,

I'm sorry. That happened to me once too and it's no fun. My name was InfiniteHits.com when I used to do SEO for a living. I got off on another tangent with a new business and just spaced the registration. By the time I realized it, it was alread taken. They told me to make an offer to try to buy it back, but I just bought a new name instead.

[davebarnes]

MrLeN,

I have no sympathy.
It is YOUR responsibility to pay attention to YOUR domain name registrations.

Many registrars offer an "automatic renewal" option. So, use one of those if you can't remember.

I had one client who sold his business (along with the corresponding website) to another company and I told (verbally and in writing) the acquiring company's IT manager to pay attention to renewals. He did not and one day www.domainname.com pointed to www.pornolio.com. They had to send $2000 USD to Russia the next day. I laughed loud and long.

,dave

[LindaW]

This just happened to me/one of my clients. It is a rather long story. We had attempted to transfer the domain to a new registry and ended up in a nightmare. The domain was originally purchased from a reseller(I didn't do this). The actual registrar was a company in Europe. We never received the emails to approve the transfer and we could not get tech support to assist us, between the reseller and the actual registrar neither seemed to think they had any responsiblity in assisting with the problem and of course neither have a working phone number.

We finally registered a new domain for the company and intentionally let the original domain name expire. We knew we were taking somewhat of a risk, but... I monitored the domain waiting for it to be released by the registry but it never was as best as I could tell. One day it showed be held by the registrar as expired, the next day it was owned by a company in India. There is no good reason this company would want this domain name other than to hold it for ransom. The domain name is very specific to this business name and there would be a million to one chance that any other company would really have the same name and want to use it.

We are NOT going to pay the $500 asking price to get it back.

[Andilinks]

Originally Posted by MrLeN

I think it should be againsst the law for companies to sit on thousands of domains to make a profit from them.

I've lost two domains because I forgot to re-register them and I'm being asked $688 for one and $6000 for the other.

I'm sorry that you have been had this way, but what remedy would you offer? If you neglect to keep your domains current you can hardly expect the registrar to hold them for you. Was the registrar complicit in some way by not sending you a notification or billing? If part of your terms of service includes that you be billed you may have a cause for action against the registrar. Otherwise it appears to be just another classic case of "you snooze, you lose."

As for companies and individuals speculating in names I can see nothing wrong with this. Many people who speculated in names lost a lot of money, it is a risky business. The addition of new tld's and the slight deflation of the tech bubble occurring between 2000-2004 is costly to many speculators. It is a free maket at work.

Andi

[Ravenhawk]

It has been my experience that to lose a domain name takes considerable neglect to accomplish. You get a 90, 60, 30 and 15 day notice plus up to 45 days after expiration to reclaim the domain name before it is completely cancelled and released back to the world.

I feel that if there are companies that are into speculation of domains that are not trademarked terms then they are welcome to speculate.

I guess I have no sympathy for this since there is so much warning and opportunity to renew your domain before it is lost.

[David Pearson]

Sorry but no sympathy here either.

Every domain name I have registered for myself or for others has been either successful or not within months of site construction, once the site is successful my clients have at my recomendation extended the registration for multiple years or placed the domain name on a "subscription" status for automatic re-registration.

I also make sure that the email address used in the initial registration is a long term one (ie flyhiau@yahoo.com) and not ISP dependant and therefore lost if you change ISP's. This also saves having to update details with the registrant.

And finally I put important financial dates, such as Domain Name re-registration, Public Liabillity Insurance, Business Name Registration, and even family birthdays into a diary.

You don't expect to keep a store premises or office suite if you forget to pay the rent do you????

But all is not lost, get a new name, upload your site, contact link partners and get them to update their links to you. As long as your link partners are in the search engines you will be found. Google recently listed a new site I created within three days of placing active links to it from existing sites, no submission required even.

[MrLeN]

I could go on and on ..and oooon and OOOOON about the how's and why's of losing my two domains. I did know about them prior, but getting them back up and running proved to be mission impossible 4.32 :(

So, now that I have lost them I don't see why anyone else should snap them up, as one poster has already described: "as ransom".

MrLeN

[Andilinks]

So, now that I have lost them I don't see why anyone else should snap them up

No, they shouldn't. Not if they were nice. I sense a huge naiveté in the way you describe this.

If you leave your wallet lying unattended on your lawn no one should take it, that would be wrong. They would know it is wrong because it is on your property.

This is why locks are installed on doors, it is why you don't leave your valuables unattended even though others would know that it is wrong to steal them.

If you own something valuable you can depend on clever crooks to try to steal it.

This is an expensive lesson, but one you're bound to repeat if you haven't learned.

Andi

[Effscot Fizz Gerald]

domain spec. sucks

What happened to this MrLen also happened to the Washington Post a while back (with their corporate intranet domain name, not washingtonpost.com), and the registrar was none other than Network Solutions. All the reporters had to get yahoo accounts to handle their research. What happend to the Post was probably what happened to MrLen: the contact email was an account that was not being monitored. Given the opportunity for real substantive loss, they should have to make a phone call and/or send you a paper letter as well.

Meanwhile, because of domain speculation, there is essentially not much in the way of "internet real estate." Some of the best possible domain names are now permanently vacant, to the detriment of web usability as a whole. Isn't it great that you can just type in "clipart.com" and get a library of 2.6 million clipart images? Wouldn't it be great if you could do that with everything? (or would that just increase big biz dominance of the web?) They should have given all the best "keyword" domains to nonprofits to turn into directories of all the sites associated with that term. Well, a nice idea.

And how often have you had this experience: just recently I thought up a new name for a company, and of course the domain name is for sale--not by a useful web site, but by buydomains.com with an offer to sell it for $5000. Geez. What planet must they be living on? Domain names just aren't worth that much, except in the case of the names of trademarks, and you usually can't do much with those domain names, certainly nothing in the same industry as the trademark holder. Of course, I'm about to trademark my company name which would, I think, drastically reduce the value of the domain name now that no one else in my industry is going to be able to set up a business with this name, and people in other industries would not likely want to set up a business in the name of one already in existence no matter the industry. No wonder domain speculation has lost so much money! It's self-defeating! Simply by buying a domain to resell it, you've greatly decreased it's value.

Meanwhile, I was still able to get really good alternative domain names--basically just add "inc" or "co" to the original word. So again, domain name spec. is just stupid. When was the last time you heard a domain name fetching the price of even a contaminated residential-zoned lot in Wyoming?

[DrTandem1]

I think the blame rests with the negligence of the original owner, not the greed of the new ones. That being said, last year I wrote an article about cyber-squaters:

http://www.drtandem.com/cyber-squatters-1.htm

It doesn't deal with remembering to renew your registration, but you may find it interesting.

[steveteva]

I m a domain broker too, we make business registering domains and selling them from $100.00 up to $1 000 000 on Ebay or Afternic or GreatDomains.
I used to have the famous domain 100best.com witch is part of Domain Record sales and sold for $30 000(business.com sold for $7 000 000, rock.com for $1 000 000....)
To get one word or two words great domains is very very hard (Must track day and night several years) and if we get it, it's like receiving an award.
I ve sold many prestigious domains in the past and if previous owners did not secure or renew their valuable domains it's their fault. I fell sorry for them but if they really care about their domain, they souldn't forget to renew it !

i currently own a domain with a .net extension, i would love to have a .com but it hasn't happened i've been watching the domain for some time and still waiting. i also have a similar incident with a client. we were looking to purchase a domain using their company name, lets just say part of it involved the words "east coast" & i won't give the rest. however, when i looked up the dot com version it was owned by a company in tennessee. TN i thought? that's odd why would a company that isn't on the east coast want a domain on the east coast. well turns out it's parkeed & for sale, go figure. so on one hand it drives me nuts that people will buy and hold ransom domains, on the other i want to be the guy that sweeps in a swipes the domain away too. where that leaves me i don't know, but i can feel for both sides.

[joeinfo]

If an investor purchases abandoned real estate and turns a profit, he is a savvy investor. If a domain broker registers an abandoned domain, he is a "worm"? Please help me see the difference. I think domain investing is every bit as ethical. (Losing any asset is painful but it isn't like the domain was "grabbed" the day after it expired. You had a 30-45 day redemption period after the domain expired. Didn't you notice that your site was shut down during that period?)

[MrLeN]

I don't recall ever having seen abandoned real estate anywhere. However, if you know of a place where I can find some land that has expired, please let me know.

After reading the posts above it seems that the divide is about 50-50. The ones for squatting are squatter's and the ones against squatting have lost something that they valued.

It's all well and good to say: "Ah well, can't help bad luck, can ya - eh?" But is it really right to make money without working for it? I'd hardly call "following a domain for years" hard work. It's the same mindset that compulsive gamblers and [full time] hobby prospectors live by: The dream of becoming rich without having to work.

I put squatters in the same class as car re possession officers, debt collectors, parking inspectors and tax auditors. Such people have to have some place in their heart that is lacking, just to be able to do their job.

There's lot's of other jobs out there and there's lots of other ways to make money. Why settle for a way where someone is affected negatively, equally as you have been rewarded. Is it really a reward, knowing that you've [practically] taken something from someone.

I can argue all day about how squatting defeats the purpose of making money (as has already been mentioned above). All squatting does it take away all the good domains, because 95% of the time no one will buy them and they have to settle for second best.

Most of the good domains online aren't even in use. How on earth is this productive?

Sure, a few greedy little worms make some money. Some make more money than they would otherwise earn in a lifetime if they had an honest heart. But what about the rest of us?

At what expense are the handful of squatters (in comparison to the rest of the 600,000,000 people online) making money?

It's lucky I am not filthy rich, because if I was, my hobby would be to sue greedy little worms just for the sake of it. I'd give the money to constructive little worms and their causes.

MrLeN

[venividi]

[quote="Andilinks
Was the registrar complicit in some way by not sending you a notification or billing? If part of your terms of service includes that you be billed you may have a cause for action against the registrar. Otherwise it appears to be just another classic case of "you snooze, you lose."
Andi[/quote]
Something like this happened to a client of mine. I had bought the domain years ago from dotearth and he had renewed it already once or twice, the last time for two years. The domain was a normal business name, no keyword, nothing interesting to anybody but to my client.
When he resurfaced after many months telling me that his site had disappeared I found out that his domain had expired 31 days earlier and had disappeared from the search engines so I wrote to dotearth asking for an explanation. They answered they had sent the reminders as they did the previous time. Which was not true, at least I couldn't find any trace of what they claim: nobody seems to have received anything: neither the provider I know as a very serious business, nor the secretary who is a very meticulous person, nor my client. Nobody. So they sent a couple of docs and asked for 80 dollars, to retrieve the domain (plus the domain expenses). Since my client was away for business for a few days and I was unable to contact him for instructions, I thought I could as well wait until the 35th day had elapsed and get the domain back, after all who would be interested in a normal business name domain that had disappeared from the major search engines? So I started to watch and try to get it back checking 4-5 times a day for days and days but to no avail. As you can guess, this was a terrible mistake. There was someone interested, very interested: the domain name held by an honest business for 4 years now belongs to a hardcore site with self-installing dialer (when I finally saw the page, this software started installation preventing me from closing the window or the connection so I had to jump on the computer plug and pull it out). Now I am not a prudish maiden and have seen many things in 62 years but nothing so sickening.
You say we can do something to stop them? No, it costs money and above all, time.
I agree that business is business yes, but there should be a limit. This is not a matter of democracy nor of business freedom, this is anarchy. Porn sites should not be allowed to waitlist for and take over an expired domain name even if the company that owned it has closed its doors. I suggest that they be barred from using 'normal' suffixes and given a particular suffix, for example 'porn', so that you know exactly what you are going to see when you digit the name.

Valeria

[steveteva]

Originally Posted by MrLeN

I don't recall ever having seen abandoned real estate anywhere. However, if you know of a place where I can find some land that has expired, please let me know.

MrLeN

Here is a place (where I track domains to sell it) to find expired domains for free rather then subscribe and pay...

deleteddomains.com

Let me know if you are satisfied with it.

Also, the best thing to (to secure your domain)do is to get a domain name using your company name (trademark) if someone register your domain you can bring him to the law court as a cyber squatter and sure you will win.


Ps : I m not the owner of link above so I m not promoting it, that's why I did not add www. at the beginning of the domain name.

[DMeeks]

Okay, it is his fault, but I see his point. Since this is America I'm not sure there's much we can do about it, but it is a kind of Buzzard style business. <smile> Any business that depends on the mistakes of others is not one I would take part in.

I use DirectNIC and they are great about sending several notices before any name expires.

I just don't see why anyone would "Laugh Long and Long" at someone's disappointment.

Nice!

Originally Posted by davebarnes

MrLeN,

I have no sympathy.
It is YOUR responsibility to pay attention to YOUR domain name registrations.

Many registrars offer an "automatic renewal" option. So, use one of those if you can't remember.

I had one client who sold his business (along with the corresponding website) to another company and I told (verbally and in writing) the acquiring company's IT manager to pay attention to renewals. He did not and one day www.domainname.com pointed to www.pornolio.com. They had to send $2000 USD to Russia the next day. I laughed long and long.

,dave

[davebarnes]

LindaW wrote:

I monitored the domain waiting for it to be released by the registry but it never was as best as I could tell. One day it showed be held by the registrar as expired, the next day it was owned by a company in India.

and Venividi wrote:

So I started to watch and try to get it back checking 4-5 times a day for days and days but to no avail. As you can guess, this was a terrible mistake.

Have you people never heard of www.snapnames.com ?
If you really want to catch a name as it expires AND is released by the incumbent registrar, then you have to use a robot! You can't do this manually.

[MrLeN]

Originally Posted by DMeeks

I just don't see why anyone would "Laugh Long and Long" at someone's disappointment.

The same question entered my mind.

venividi,

I agree with all that you said. I don't agree with porn being online. Just about EVERY child I know has a computer with an Internet connection. I have seen some of their messenger logs (just checking). The sites they point each other to and the emails they send to each other are rather disturbing. They giggle and think it's funny, but it's damaging.

MrLeN