Are we hosting this site or not??

[jfrizelle]

Hi,

This is a bit strange... we used to host a website for a company, and I'm not sure if we still do - we were getting out of the hosting business, concentrating on other things instead.

When I do an IP lookup on the company's website address, it does point to an IP address within our range. So I went onto our webserver (we host a small number of websites), went into IIS and it's in there.

Anyway, on this company's homepage our old logo is appearing, so I copied the correct logo into their Images folder, and changed the homepage code to show the new logo.

Back to the browser, hit F5 - old image still showing. Right-click, view source - code still shows that it's displaying the old logo.

I went back into IIS and stopped the site, just to check that it would no longer be available - back to browser again, hit F5, website is still up and running.

So according to the IP lookup (I used Whois - IP Address - Domain Name Lookup) it would seem that the site is still hosted on our server, yet the changes I make are not being reflected.



Edited to add: when I type the IP address directly into the browser, I get an error "The system cannot find the file specified."

Any ideas?

Thanks,
J.

[wige]

Interesting situation. It is possible that there is some redundancy that is causing the server to be backed up elsewhere on your network (for example if you are in a Windows domain forest, there may be a failover that makes the site accessible on another server) or it is possible that you get routed differently internally. If you would like, I could try to track it down for you. Just PM me with the domain name, and the IP address that it currently shows up as being on, and I can try to find where the site actually is.

[RichAtVNS]

You guys can't be serious with this one???????

HMMMMMMMM....
is your browser IE or aol?

If so your browser is caching the pages.

And the images.....

[a53mp]

Originally Posted by RichAtVNS

You guys can't be serious with this one???????

HMMMMMMMM....
is your browser IE or aol?

If so your browser is caching the pages.

And the images.....

Yeah... I'm thinking it's probably good you are getting out of this business. lol

[LinksAndTraffic]

Originally Posted by RichAtVNS

You guys can't be serious with this one???????

HMMMMMMMM....
is your browser IE or aol?

If so your browser is caching the pages.

And the images.....

Absolutely! Clear your cache, then reload.

[datetopia]

Haha... traceroute it.

[nashville]

Just send them a bill and they will tell you

Sorry I could not resist.

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by RichAtVNS

You guys can't be serious with this one???????

HMMMMMMMM....
is your browser IE or aol?

If so your browser is caching the pages.

Not necessarily so.

I've a similar situation, where there is no question re. the host, file uploads work just fine, and yet, changes to a particular file are not being reflected on any view, using any machine!

[joezstuff]

I was trying to put another button on my home page.
On Expression Web it looks great but it won't publish.
I have never had this problem.

I changed a few littlte things but it won't show the link button
www.theoakswatch.com

[SeeMyBiz]

In spite of some of the sarcastic comments - please let us know the answer if you find it. The answer may seem simple and forthcoming to some, but for some of us more experienced in life, we know things are not always what they may seem. Sometimes an answer is too simple to see and at times may be difficult but elusive; I have seen many an expert stumped by a simple problem that they knew the answer to.

You asked a great question and to be rudely reprimanded by some folks here is really unfortunate. I hope you find your answer.

Best!

[LuckyCharms]

Originally Posted by a53mp

Yeah... I'm thinking it's probably good you are getting out of this business. lol

I was thinking the same thing too. Then again, the initial post just looks like an attempt to spam the url for the whois lookup script. Notice the anchor text and the fact the op hasn't responded to the thread.

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by LuckyCharms

I was thinking the same thing too. Then again, the initial post just looks like an attempt to spam the url for the whois lookup script.

If that's a criteria for being "spam," then nearly everyone here is a spammer, including yourself by virtue of your Signature Links.

Originally Posted by LuckyCharms

Notice the anchor text and the fact the op hasn't responded to the thread.

Also, notice the time of the OP's opening post; and then, consider that we know neither his Time Zone not his own personal schedule.

[subsystems]

I've run into this numerous times.
The webserver is likely caching the files. A reboot of the server would reveal this. Of course you could simply restart IIS if it is a Windows Box.

I've also seen issues where I make a change to a file on the website and some time later the file reverts back to a previous state. It is like the file has not been written to disk and is still in the page file. You check the file and it shows the changes. Restart the server and the file goes back to what it was before. Very frustrating when the server starts throwing up 500 Internal Server errors because only some of the files have saved correctly.

[ManagedLinks]

Ping Domain name returns ip address whois records may be outdated
nslookup can get lots of DNS info
restart IIS
quit the hosting business if you don't now the basics you are stealing people money

[NetProwler]

>> when I type the IP address directly into the browser, I get an error "The system cannot find the file specified."


It is quite natural. Your server has many Vhosts set up and the Virtual hosting is based on domain names. So if you just give the IP address the server will try to locate the file in the main server's document root.

As for the pages/images not getting updated, you may have a caching system in between you and the HTTP server.

[madjohn]

My two 'spams' worth..! :P

Here's a simple answer: have you uploaded your image into the wrong folder? It's quite simple to sometimes upload a file without specifically drag-n-dropping it into the correct folder. The directory path on the remote server may be different to that on your local server.

Visually check that the file (image) is in the right place.

Nice.

[jfrizelle]

Wow, lots of nasty replies there! I didn't say that I personally am hosting the site - the company I work for USED to do hosting - I'm just trying to figure out a problem. My time zone and other commitments prevented me from checking back until now. And please - I'm not trying to spam any site.

Thanks for the genuine replies. I've refreshed the page in IE, Firefox, Opera - and they're all showing the old logo. We still host our own website (on the same server as the one giving the problem - we only have one webserver, btw), and I maintain the site and have NEVER come across this problem - on our website I update a page, and bingo, the changes are live immediately when I refresh the page in the browser.

I've restarted IIS and it made no difference. I pinged the domain name and it also shows the same IP address - one in our range. I also did an NSlookup on it and it shows the same IP address.

I downloaded VisualRoute to do a traceroute, and it showed 6 hops, but also said that the host could not be reached "it does not respond to VisualRoute's diagnostic packets. Hops after hop 4 could not be identified - this is usually indicative of a firewall at that point". It did show a header saying 'Report for <website address> [IP Address]' and sure enough it's the same IP address as all the other tests.

As far as I knew we had stopped hosting this company's website some time back...

[jfrizelle]

Hi Madjohn, thanks for your spam!

The image is uploaded into the right place alright. I've given it a different name and I've changed the code to point to the new image name. Also the image was a link and I've removed that link... but when I 'View Source' the code hasn't changed.

J.

[madjohn]

Did you also re-upload the .html file?
Sorry, I'm sure you have but as already mentioned, it's sometimes the easiest of mistakes (that I've made myself!! lol)

[jfrizelle]

Not that simple unfortunately, but a nice idea!

I RDP'd into the server, went into IIS to see the home directory, and went straight to the home directory to edit the live file. They're the only files I can find for this company, there is no sign of any test/design version.

But also I stopped the site in IIS - surely that should kill it until I restart it again?? But it didn't - stop the site, refresh my browser (any browser) and the site is still alive and kicking...!

[madjohn]

Ok. Odd.

With my limited knowledge, I am thinking that they have placed their website with another host provider but not removed your logo from it. Even though the IP is within your IP range (here's where I start looking dumb) can it not have the same address IP address if the DNS is pointing to a different host? The DNS woudl resolve to the host and then the host allocate an IP in the same range as yours but on it's 'local' hosting network.

I need an aspirin...!

[jfrizelle]

Hmmm, but the whole point of a DNS record is to point a particular domain name at a specific unique IP address.

Like storing contacts on your phone - the phone number you specify for a contact is a unique phone number which can only connect to one destination.

You need an aspirin? I need a brandy!!

[madjohn]

I need a lesson in DNS. Again! I knew I was going a step too far.
Still, I'll keep on making mistakes. e.g. maybe the IP address was also moved with the hosting as a whole..? I've never hosted a website (whod've thought!?) but perhaps you' could check your records etc but that's something else to possibly consider/ignore. lol

I'll keep posting these options as I make them up... But I'm off to a (BNI) business meeting now so it'll be at least a few hours before my next foray into the 'so,-you-think-you're-making-an-intelligent-guess,-do-you?' zone!

Nice.

[jfrizelle]

No worries John, keep the suggestions coming cos I'm completely at a loss!!

The IP address belongs to us, we've bought a range of IP addresses for our own use, so I'm afraid that's not a runner either.

Thanks for your input, and I'll catch up with you again tomorrow - I'll be outta here in 2 hrs and won't be back till tomorrow, me being a spammer and all that. Us spammers work odd hours...

[mawells]

One more thing to consider if you haven't already.... is there a redirect on the site via an httpaccess file or even coding within the page itself or on the IIS server?

(I have a couple of clients who no longer host their website with me but wanted to keep their email and, for reasons that are too lengthy to explain here, I simply redirect their site to the new site location. The IP for the domain would remain unchanged.)

[jfrizelle]

Thanks Mawells,

I've checked in the Home Directory tab on IIS, and it's set to 'A directory located on this computer', so no redirect there. I went to the directory specified, and modified the correct file - there's only 2 files there; it's a frames-based site (we're talking about a really old site!) so no difficulty making sure I'm editing the correct file.

I don't see any htaccess file... but that's only relevant on Linux / Apache, isn't it?

*Sigh!* What the heck is happening here??

I'll be back tomorrow. Ciao for now, and thanks for any input!

J.

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by ManagedLinks

Ping Domain name returns ip address whois records may be outdated
nslookup can get lots of DNS info

WTF? Whois records contain Registration data, and is not queried by ping or traceroute; the latter use data from the Name Servers.

Originally Posted by ManagedLinks

quit the hosting business if you don't now the basics you are stealing people money

Not only is this an ad hominem attack, it comes from one who has just demonstrated their own lack of knowledge & understanding.

"Better to remain silent, and be thought the fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by jfrizelle

... it's a frames-based site (we're talking about a really old site!) so no difficulty making sure I'm editing the correct file.

Hm-mm; so too is the site which has experienced an identical problem, noted at
Are we hosting this site or not?? .

Coincidence?

Even more odd is the fact that that site is a clone of a sister site, residing on the same host, which had no problem when changing the very same frame. So far, the hosting firm, Brinkster, has no explanation.

[mrgreenjeans]

As NetProwler mentioned, you may have a caching system or a firewall device in between you and the HTTP server as well; they are often configured not to respond to traceroute messages, but they could be serving up the old pages from their cache or re-directing to another device.

When you did the traceroute showing the 6 hops, were they all going through routers inside your network (other than the ones you couldn't get info about)? Check your network maps to see where the packets should be going next to get to that server's IP address. Then check the route cache for those routers, esp. the last one shown (you may have to get someone in your network support staff do this as they usually keep the server admins out of the routers!) Check the interface shown to get to that IP address range to see where the next hop interface is, then go to that router to see its cache, etc. You may have to manually walk through the physical connections to verify there's nothing wanky in between.

What happens if you try to access the pages from somewhere outside of your work network? (Might not matter as it probably will go through the same routers/devices once inside your network).

I can't remember if you did this or not, but have you restarted the physical server to clear its cache as well? (I'm not an IIS guru, so I'm not sure if stopping the site in IIS also clears its cache or not.)

Cheers,

David G.

[dartman]

The most elementary thing - are you saving any page changes before sending them over?

[jfrizelle]

Ok, problem solved!

I PM'd the URL and IP address to wige, and he detected the server that the site was hosted on - turns out there's an old (very old!) web server that's still up and running, and the firewall NAT is pointing the external IP address to a private IP address on that server instead of the new server.

So although all the files and folders for the website were copied across, and the site was up and running in IIS, it wasn't mapped to in the firewall.

I wonder is there any chance that your problem is similar, deepsand? Now that really would be a coincidence!!

Hmm. So we are still hosting their website - I wonder when they were last charged for it?? Time to go ask a few questions, methinks!


Many thanks to the people who took my problem seriously and offered suggestions & advice.

J.

[madjohn]

Nice one

[wige]

Ok. I avoided this thread for a bit while I looked into the issue - wanted to avoid going down the wrong path from reading something in the thread.

Now, I'll admit I was a bit surprised by the solution to this one It wasn't quite the situation I expected, but definitely a fun puzzle.

Deepsand, although you report similar symptoms, uploaded changes not being reflected on the visited server, it is unlikely that the cause is the same. This situation required a very specific set of network conditions and setup that makes it happening to two people in the same thread unlikely. For your situation, are you hosting the site yourself, or are you hosting through a third party?

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by jfrizelle

I wonder is there any chance that your problem is similar, deepsand? Now that really would be a coincidence!!

Originally Posted by wige

Deepsand, although you report similar symptoms, uploaded changes not being reflected on the visited server, it is unlikely that the cause is the same. This situation required a very specific set of network conditions and setup that makes it happening to two people in the same thread unlikely. For your situation, are you hosting the site yourself, or are you hosting through a third party?

As noted, the sister sites, only one of which has suffered this problem, are both hosted by Brinkster. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that my problem and that of the OP share a common cause.

My primary suspect at this point is, based on prior experience, some oddity in the coding. Although the 2 sites were intended to be clones, with only company specific information (Logo, Name, Address, Telephone Nos., etc.) differing, I have previously found certain unexplained subtle coding differences that were introduced by the consultant who initially developed them. I'll be doing a line-by-line comparison as soon as I get the present herd of cats into the corral.

[noel_x99]

Originally Posted by jfrizelle

Ok, problem solved!

Hmm. So we are still hosting their website - I wonder when they were last charged for it?? Time to go ask a few questions, methinks!

We just had a job recently where we were redesigning a site. They were unhappy with their previous site and hosting services and were going to host their new site with a company we work with.

While we were in progress on their new site, their old site disappeared. I talked to my customer and they said they were hosted with GoDaddy - they sent me a copy of the hosting bill to prove it. While GoDaddy was managing their domain name...and did have a hosting package...it was an empty site. (My customer was inexperienced enough to think if you tell GoDaddy to host that they'll just go get your old site and set it up and everything is done!)

The name was still pointed to the old host (before GoDaddy) that they hadn't been paying for well over a year. That old host finally took down the site. It was just a coincidence that we were nearly ready to publish their new site.

So, in short, my customers old site was still on their old host...who they weren't paying. They were paying GoDaddy for hosting, but didn't have a site there.

Your former customer might be doing the same thing. They may be paying another company for hosting...and never actually moved the site or never redirected it. They would never really know unless someone tried to update their site. If you wanted to be nice, you'd warn them before you remove it. (They may not even have another copy of the site.) No obligation though...they aren't your customer and have no real right to complain if you remove the site.

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by noel_x99

We just had a job recently where we were redesigning a site. They were unhappy with their previous site and hosting services and were going to host their new site with a company we work with.

While we were in progress on their new site, their old site disappeared. I talked to my customer and they said they were hosted with GoDaddy - they sent me a copy of the hosting bill to prove it. While GoDaddy was managing their domain name...and did have a hosting package...it was an empty site. (My customer was inexperienced enough to think if you tell GoDaddy to host that they'll just go get your old site and set it up and everything is done!)

The name was still pointed to the old host (before GoDaddy) that they hadn't been paying for well over a year. That old host finally took down the site. It was just a coincidence that we were nearly ready to publish their new site.

So, in short, my customers old site was still on their old host...who they weren't paying. They were paying GoDaddy for hosting, but didn't have a site there.

Your former customer might be doing the same thing. They may be paying another company for hosting...and never actually moved the site or never redirected it. They would never really know unless someone tried to update their site. If you wanted to be nice, you'd warn them before you remove it. (They may not even have another copy of the site.) No obligation though...they aren't your customer and have no real right to complain if you remove the site.

Priceless. (For everything else there's MasterCard.)

[jfrizelle]

Ah I'm too nice to just take their site down like that.

I've told sales that this site is still up on our server, so I'll leave it with them to come back to me on it - we do plenty of other business with this particular company, so they'll have to take that into account.

[noel_x99]

Originally Posted by deepsand

Priceless. (For everything else there's MasterCard.)

That's a hoot. We really got a chuckle out of that. Thanks!

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by noel_x99

That's a hoot. We really got a chuckle out of that. Thanks!

Ah, shucks; you make me blush.

[mrgreenjeans]

Jfrizelle, glad you got this sorted out. It sounded like a firewall/redirection issue to me, and that's what it turned out to be! Every once in a while my former network management experience still proves useful now that I've gone over to the online content management world ... <G>

Hopefully your sales people will be able to extract some extra $$$ from the client for all your troubles!

Cheers,
David G.