Dilemma need input plz.

[amxfan]

I was not really sure where on WPW would be the best place to post this so I posted it in the safest. If a mod feels I would get a better response from a different area please move it.

Now for my dilemma. Well really it is my friends, but they came to me with a situation and now I need to go to everyone here as I not quite sure and do not want to lead my friend down the wrong road.

My friend came to me and asked if I would assist them in programming a dynamically driven web site with a CMS system and went into great detail as to what they wanted. To be honest what they were asking of me to do is out of my programming skill level and this is what I told them. So they proceeded to contact various web designers and found one that they really like and whose price was about half of what I though it should be "$5k-$10k". The designer does very nice work and can do the work required but they require the site be hosted by them as the site will only work on their server. Their hosting price isn't bad and starts at $20 a month for unlimited bandwidth use. My hang up with it is the fact that they can not move it to a different server and my fear is:
1. What if they raise the price?
2. What if tech support gets real bad or becomes a paid thing?
3. You can what if this thing to death.

I'm not that familiar with the back-end workings of a dynamic driven site and so I'm asking here.

1. Is this the norm that the designer has to host it?
2. Would you, if you were in their shoes, go with this designer?

This is a site that this particular designer has made, to give you an example of his work. Magic Wands for Harry Potter wands fans - See our Magic Wands

Any and all input would help.

[Dubbya]

1. Is this the norm that the designer has to host it?

No, it's certainly NOT the norm. While it might be handy in terms of Administration, if the designer makes hosting the site on their server a requirement, I'd look elsewhere.

2. Would you, if you were in their shoes, go with this designer?

There are scores of web hosting providers supporting every programming language and with every Administrative interface known to man, many of which provide their services at very reasonable prices.

A good host will support the language that the site is to be scripted in, will allow back end server Administration, will allow you to configure and utilize server components, java beans, any type of database, provides server stats and so on.

Why would anyone lock themselves into a deal that limits their control without the ability to move the site when and where they want to?

We often hear horror stories resulting from similar situations where clients sign up for hosting through a developer and end up getting stung when they've paid for the site to be created then have a disagreement.

It's certainly doable, but requires clear and concise contracts so that the client and developer understand who owns the content, scripting and images. Without the rights to the site in its' entirety, the Developer/Host holds all the cards and it's about the worst situation for the site owner to find themselves in.

Check on the developer's reputation and read the fine print.

.02

[activeco]

...but they require the site be hosted by them as the site will only work on their server.

My experience learned me to stay away from businesses who start BS-ing from the very beginning.

[amxfan]

Thank you both for your reply and insight on this.

They stated to me they have to host it because it is was a Dynamic page. Static pages could be hosted else where.
Myself only having limited experience with Dynamic pages in ColdFusion and not really knowing Dynamic web sites backend workings. I really wanted to ask the experts here.

Thanks Again

PS edit
attached copy of the email. "Hope the word ecommerce does not change anything."

> I had a brief meeting with a senior analyst and unfortunately discovered
> that we are not able to deliver a complete solution for a third-party
host.
> We can do this with static sites, but dynamic ecommerce sites are fully
> integrated with our bas architecture. I understand this breaks one of your
> primary requirements, but I hope you will give us a chance to prove our
> dependability. We have been in business since 1992 and we host over 800
> clients across North America and Europe.

[Dubbya]

Sounds like they've got a proprietary solution. They get you up and running and you're locked in without an option to host elsewhere.

There are enough ecommerce solutions around that can run on a multitude of server configs. Don't feel too pressured to commit to anything at this stage of the game.

What's so difficult about hosting a site with dynamic content anyway? All you need is a lousy database and the scripts to generate your pages.

I'd tend to agree with activeco.

Keep shopping around.

[activeco]

We can do this with static sites, but dynamic ecommerce sites are fully
integrated with our bas architecture.

Even if they have proprietary e-commerce software, their approach is ridiculous.
I think they smelled a prey.

[Martinscholes]

What might happen?

Well, I'll tell you of a story that happened last month to someone I know.

He runs a very successful website. It is hosted by an ISP on their servers.

One day, his site went down. He called the ISP only to be told that there had been a major fire at their data facility and that all of the servers had been totalled by the fire.

When he asked about the back-ups they had told him they had been making they admitted that the back-up servers were in the same data centre and they had been destroyed in the fire, too. He is having to re-start the whole website from scratch.

The point I am making is that if anything goes wrong at the server of the people who are hosting the site (they go out of business, server fire, have a data loss, whatever) your friends would lose their site and their business.

It's not worth the risk, IMO.

[amxfan]

I sent my friends a link to this thread and I do not think they are going to go with them.

But I could not believe it when they starting talking about a Yahoo Store instead. I could have smacked them! but after I not so kindly explained to them that they would be in the same boat with them, but with a different driver. They decided to pass on them as well.

They are still looking for someone in the USA that is willing to take on the job.

[chandrika]

What the guy could do if he wasnt happy using their server, would be to ensure that they exported a backup of the site daily to some shared server of his own choice somewhere that cost little, so that if they did go down, he would still have his site.

In my experience, there are some sites that you do need full control of the server for some settings and a dedicated server is only way to have that control. So they could be straight up about that, as they would unlikely get a separate dedicated for his business, due to the cost being into $100s.

If the needs he has specified require certain server settings, that could be the reason, it would be true especially if there is alot of database activity as they would want allocate resources specifically, but like you say, risky if anything happened to them, which is why I would suggest he ensured an exported backup daily to an alternate server of his choice that wouldnt matter about the settings, just to hold the files.

[amxfan]

That would work, but to be honest what good would it do?

Their fear is
1. If they raise the price to an outrageous amount
2. Tech support falls off to nothing
3. Server failure
etc, etc

Since they are stating their sites are proprietary to their hosting, a back up would not do any good. They would be stuck eating what ever the hosting provider wanted to feed them.


The only requirements my friends gave the web designer were.

1. The site had to be a dynamic site.
2. The page titles, page keywords, page descriptions, all product info like price, images, descriptions etc be pulled from a database
3. The site would have a product edit, add, delete and a online / off-line button.
4. If the copyright did not automatically update the year, then it be put in a server include. <-- So they would only have to change it one time in one spot, and only have to upload one small file.
5. It would be made to their layout, colors and design. <-- this has been stopping most people from helping them.