Potential client needs more than I can provide

[Derald]

My topic spans more than one forum topic, so I hope this is the most appropriate one.

I have a client who sent me a referral and I'm trying to figure out if I should pass on the project or bring someone in to help me. My experience with web site development lies with design and SEO, but I'm interested in taking on the project to expand my knowledge. Here's the scenario and I'd like your input on the best type of person to bring in and what software experience they should have.

I had them fill out a features and benefits brief and here is there list:
1. Ability to update calendar of events.
2. Automatic email newsletter distribution.
3. Member registration/login/update profile and auto-insertion to member database.
4. Searchable membership database.
5. Online payment of dues and upcoming events.
6. Two web "paths" within site; one for members and ones who want to use the facility for events.

I don't believe I can learn how to do all of the above in a month's time.
They also proposed a budget of $5,000 which without being able to do the above is unrealistic. I would have to charge that much based on their creative and SEO needs. If I can justify the expense of the above I believe they will increase their budget.

Lastly, if you live in the Atlanta, Georgia area and would like to speak with me about it outside the forum, please send me an email.

Thanks in advance,
Derald

[DylanW]

#1 and #2 you can probably find scripts for.

#3 through #6, however, you're probably going to have to find someone with programming and database skills (figure out what scripting languages and database--i.e., PHP, MySQL, etc.--your web host offers, then find someone who can use those). You might be able to learn it and do it in a month's time if you read some crash-course type of stuff, but if the membership database is central to their site (and if it's going to interact with offline records as well) you want someone with some experience to do it.

[Steven Glover]

You definatly want some help if you are not familiar with doing a site like this. See if your host offers Coldfusion. Or if you are willing to move to a host who does. If so I can help you with a number of the scripts you will need. I have already done.

I have a pretty good newsltter script and it can easily be automated with the a fairly inexpensive piece of software to maintain the email list.

Let me know if you can use anything I have. Always happy to help out a WebProWorld member.

Also if CF isn't usable have a look at PHP. Most hosts support it and it blends real nice with MySQL

Since PHP is basically open source you will find a number of scripts readily available for free that may help you.

[compusolver]

To be even posting this topic, shows you have a good head on your shoulders.

All developers who've been in the business have seen the aftermath of young designers who take on their first server-side code project thinking they can just grab scripts off the web and fake it through.

There are plenty of server-side coders out here who'd be happy to partner with you on projects where you do the design, handle the client, etc. and they do the PHP/ASP, database, eCommerce stuff. Many of us are willing to work for as little as $25/hr on such subcontract jobs because its easier to work with a web designer than with a client.

By the way, I think their estimate is very realistic. I'll (somewhat shamefully) admit that I've done more work for less than half that much money.

[clivemcg]

My advice would be to find another web designer who is proficient in the areas of expertise in which you need to improve.

I recently teamed up with a v. talented guy who is super proficient in Flash and PhotoShop, Databases etc. and essentially leaves me standing in those areas. BUT, the agreement we have is that he works for me (and not my clients) on a 'paid for' set-up.

It was always hard for me to turn down work because I felt it was beyond my area of expertise (general design and Marketing etc.)

I know I have been fortunate to find someone who can fill in the gaps but, even if I just pass on an enquiry (and give him full rein) I know I'm going to be 'looked after' for providing the contact.

The important thing is to be honest and say when it's just a tender, rather than an out and out contract.

He's happy as I get the contacts, I'm happy as I don't have to turn people away.

Before you know it you'll have a company of designers with you (maybe the least proficient) at the helm!?

[midi-life]

"They also proposed a budget of $5,000 which without being able to do the above is unrealistic. I would have to charge that much based on their creative and SEO needs. If I can justify the expense of the above I believe they will increase their budget."

The question on the budget level is by how much, the quickest way to knock out what they want would be to buy in a number of solutions and then nail them together behind your design- and that ain't as easy as it sounds and it doesn't sound easy.

The question I would ask myself is whether it is worth starting or not. Sometimes as both a client and a builder I think that straight forward "This is what I can do this is what I can't" is much more rewarding, especially if you know a (wo)man who can do it- its an old word but demarcation has its advantages, as does collaborative working- the people you kick business to will also kick some back.
pete

[mbrink1111]

For a project such as this, you can start with a "boxed" solution and modify as needed.

Aspin.com is loaded with scripts/apps a lot of which are free. You might want to with a pre built portal:
http://aspin.com/func/search?tree=as...cat=&x=31&y=12

hth
Michael Brinkley
http://ASPAlliance.com/mbrink1111/

[dealercrm]

Be warned that using out of the box solutions and scripts are not necessarily EASY solution... It may just be that it takes equal or greater time to integrate the various scripts an/or solutions to meet the features above.

I would suggest pairing up with a few people in the web development community to help you through your first one.

A development project always proves to seem easier before you have completed it. Beware of what you accept as a deliverable budget.

I had them fill out a features and benefits brief and here is there list:
1. Ability to update calendar of events.
2. Automatic email newsletter distribution.
3. Member registration/login/update profile and auto-insertion to member database.
4. Searchable membership database.
5. Online payment of dues and upcoming events.
6. Two web "paths" within site; one for members and ones who want to use the facility for events.

1. Yes you could find a script, however does it have to match up to a member and is it pay access only?
2. Many scripts out there... You could base your solution on, write your own, or integrate it into the seamless deliverable to the client.
3. Any seasoned web developer will have a structured approach or already developed authentication system developed. Plus, there are many script examples out there.
4. Usually incorporated into the authentication, however a public interface is needed here.
5. Coupled with the authentication, members will pay dues for what service? access to calendar? where will the amounts be stored?
6. Public and Private (authenticated)... simple... you design the web site look and feel, the developer implements the authentication system for the paying members.

PHP and MySQL are my thing... Let me know if I can help....

Happy pre-turkey day....

[doubleplus]

Since you have e-commerce needs, I suggest Miva Merchant as an e-commerce solution. As a highly expandable platform, there are plug and play modules for all of the needs you have listed. As a packaged and documented solution, Miva Merchant has less of a learning curve than, say, PHP. And there are dozens of developers ready and willing to help on the Miva Merchant User List community.

My e-mail address is cal@doubleplus.com if you have any questions.

[httpman]

Hello Derald

You should also be aware of the operating system your potential customer shall use.

If you have the choice, the LAMP approach (Linux / Apache / MysQL / PHP) is probably the best. Most of what you require is indeed very basic, I would probably charge not more than 2.000 $ for that PHP / Mysql programming job.
And there are a lot of people which can do it, therefore finding someone to work with should not be a pain. Just take a look at their previous jobs, in order to appreciate the "ergonomics" of what they do : the members will probably register & update their profile by themselves, hence the ergonomics is important.

At the opposite, if your prospect have to stay into Microsoft's world (ASP / SQL Server), it will probably be more difficult to find the required help and it will probably cost you more.

Just take this into consideration !

Good luck.


Jean-Pierre

[red]

Hi Derald,
I am in complete agreement with Chuck (Doubleplus)about using Miva merchant. I maintain 3 ecommerce shops that use Miva Merchant. Though my background is mainly in copy design and SEO I've had to do some design work as well as perform other tasks that I'd NEVER have been able to accomplish without Miva module plug-ins as well as the help of the users group (which includes a lot of input and tips from Chuck!)
$5000 is a small budget but using Miva Merchant along with a host that works with Miva (I can't stress that enough) will allow you the flexibility you need to complete the work and you'll have a LOT of folks on the Miva users groups to help you along the way. The work will take a lot less time and you'll be nearly headache free with Miva.
I work with a photographer, designer and a database guy when budget allows. When it doesn't I ask for help...and always get it when I need it!
Please take Chuck up on his offer and email him for specifics- well worth your while.
All the best to you and happy Holidays!

[voodooboy]

Derald,
First I would have to disagree with those promoting Miva for your client. Yes, Miva is a great app. The issue is with the overall needs of the client. Miva is a stand-alone application that will not easily integrate into a backend user interface that would handle all your clients needs. You want to create something so that all of these requirements can be accessed through one interface. Miva will not allow that, and the database integration would need to be separate from the rest of the databases.

If you do not have the connections for the backend development, I would suggest going to http://www.elance.com. You can post for free and you would be surprised how quickly your quotes come in. Many developers have already done just what you are looking for and only have to adjust a few minor things to accommodate your needs. Makes for quick turn around. I would make sure you know exactly what the server type is, databasing structure, and programming language that is to be used. And give a low bid rate. You will usually come in under and have some buffer from their offer to play with. If you have buffer and the programmer pulls through early, I usually kick them a little extra. They appreciate it, and cut me deals in the future for programming.

Also, make sure that you have specifics down in the contract. This way the client can't put things in under the wire. Keep them honest.

I hope this helps. Best of luck.

[PXJ]

There are content management systems that will do all that and more. I can think of free ones which will do it.

Don't overlook the Nuke variety which can be modified and are in use by some major sites like Vibe and Spin magazine among others.

I am new here so I don't want te be out of line but you could subcontract something like that to me (or others) and I could get it done for less than half that leaving you with a big margin of profit.

Or if you want to consult me about details..just PM me.

[RichardHoehn]

I actually think you are cutting it tight with $5000 for the site. We all know that that coding can be done in that time, but then come desing changes and little addons here or able to sort in a different way. I would watchout with the NewsLetter ask how many emails the server will have to send. If it is alott then you will have to do some specials scripting not to bog down the server and still have resources for the webusers themselves since the site will be running off the same database.