That's not writing -- It's typing

[Dcrux]

A List Apart, long known for articles on web design recently posted Calling All Designers: Learn to Write! This comes on the heels of Digital Web Magazine's Why the Tech Industry Needs to Change Its Language.

Language will become a competitive advantage, and ultimately, those companies who can explain their offerings best will win.
-- Why the Tech Industry Needs to Change Its Language

Even Sitepoint has a recent contribution. Sitepoint's article goes into scrapers and anti-crawl software, which was news to me.

What most designers have experience with it typing, not writing. Lorem ipsum content betrays the fiction content drives design. So what can you do?

You can start with imaginative, "killer" content. Then have the content drive layout and design decisions. What would happen if there were articles with text and pictures relating to the article? Why, this pictures supporting text thing might take off. The content discussion forum might discuss content, on occasion.

...could happen.

[Orion]

Hope I'm not mistaking what you're saying..

If you're saying that imagry on a site should support the content (meat) of a site, I totally agree!

It's incredible how many websites clients come to me with (usually having trouble with search engines) where I have to sit and ask them "what is this about?".

Many many clients come saying my rankings suck.. my initial response is rankings mean NOTHING! What means something is how much money is your website bringing you!

If a website's content is well written (from a marketing standpoint), and the imagry of the site supports the content and entices one [visitor] to read on, then a website with just an average ranking can fiscally outperform the top ten ranked sites.

Now of course, if you have a well put together site a) layout that is easy to use, simple and appealing
b) design that attracts the visitor and entices them to read what's on the page
c) content that keeps the visitor investigating and driving them to your 'call to action'
AND ranks well in the SE's
THEN you'll have a kick-butt, money-making, online business...

and isn't that really the goal of a (commercial) website?

Besides it's always nice to come to a site, see the pictures and know what this business is about. =o)

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by Dcrux

<snip>
What most designers have experience with it typing, not writing. Lorem ipsum content betrays the fiction content drives design. So what can you do?

You can start with imaginative, "killer" content. Then have the content drive layout and design decisions. What would happen if there were articles with text and pictures relating to the article? Why, this pictures supporting text thing might take off. The content discussion forum might discuss content, on occasion.

...could happen.

Nice theory.

Though site owners feel they can hand over most things to a designer, there is a deep-rooted and quite justifiable feeling that "I know my business best" when it comes to supplying copy.

Now of course you can argue that a web designer's business is writing original, keyword-rich copy for their client's sites. But try telling the client that. Also when a client comes up with this sort of copy, how can you argue against it!

XXXXX is an innovative, young and dynamic company that works with its clients to develop new insights into the complex and evolving issues of today – and tomorrow – generating actionable results and insights. XXXXXX focuses on building networks and enabling strategic dialogue amongst key players at the intersection of business, policy and technological innovation.

An how can a web designer add anything to this?

We specialize in brokering inter dealer derivative transactions on a name give-up basis.

It's a bit like trying to improve on something supplied in Chinese...

[Dcrux]

But try telling the client that.

I would agree if it weren't for copywriters -- the whole copywriting industry is about telling their clients just that. Heck the whole Writing profession consists of many people writing about things they are not necessarily experts about.

And often I've read an article which has more information value than *every* business web site on the same subject. Writers are often able to do what typists can't -- catch and hold the reader's interest.

You may be interested in content guru Gerry McGovern. Some suggested reading Words Drive Action: An Interview with Gerry McGovern and Search optimization, not search engine optimization.

This whole "nice theory" thing is a convenient excuse. Web designers flat out leave a lot of money on the table not considering -- or even entertaining the notion -- copywriting/content design is part of design.

-- Web designers carped about usability, until it (mostly) caught on.

-- Zeldman recounts the number of web designers who raised a fuss about web standards, at first.

They kicked and fussed and "I can't get my client to X, how am I supposed to Y?" ...then they realized it's what they should have been doing from the start. Then there were a few who saw each of these changes as something they could build a competitive advantage from.

From the looks of the articles kicking off this thread, the field for content-driven design should be wide open.

[weslinda]

I think we're trying to come up with new terms and "focuses" which should have been the basics since all time for all of us.

1. Content is what a web site is about. Now, that content might be articles, product specifications, or pictures of lingerie. Content is determined by the site, and the visitor, as to what is truly needed.

2. Should the needed content be text, and articles, then copy writing is a very important piece to the pie. I'm a web designer, not a copy writer. This is where critical partnerships can lead to success and failure. Well written copy is important in everything from a product brochure, an article on a particular topic, a direct mail sales brochure or letter, or anything else that a company or individual uses to sell a product.

This is business basics 101, and I think many web designers, which came out of school doing this stuff didn't have experience in the business world and that makes it tough for many to get what the real core values are.

Sites aren't about being pretty, they are about doing what the visitor needs.

[Dcrux]

Thanks for that last post. So far it has been like posting on the Content Discussion forum of WeBizarroworld.

[bj]

Paul B, that's hysterical and all too true. I try to give clients a hint about what the content should represent, and how they should make it readable to people who aren't attorneys or who aren't in their industry. Some listen. Some don't.

With most sites these days being set up on software that the client then uses to add content, it's mostly out of a designer's hands, at least it is in the sites I design. Gone are the days when I put up every static webpage and could edit the copy I was given to put on the page. I'm actually not sorry to see those days gone, since there was a lot more work for me, most of it data entry and editing instead of true coding and design work. But content has suffered, in some cases, because of it. Let's face it, few people who come out of any public school in the US can really write a usable, readable and UNDERSTANDABLE paragraph. It's truly sad.

[Dcrux]

Okay then, when the content is less-than-inspired, how do web designers make money? Some charge more, while others explain buzzwords don't always make for the best SEO. One SEO called it the "cold shower moment." That's when the client finds out their most cherished industry terms aren't how a large segment of their customers search.

It's like usability or anything else, by injecting some test data into the conversation, it's no longer one opinion against another. And you can test copy with conversions, A/B split runs and so on. Frankly, an A/B split run is more about content management than most CMS installs.

Too many people are trapped in the old world of paper documents, simply moved online. Offline, the second most expensive thing to do is test. (The most expensive thing people do is not test). Online there is little reason not to do content testing, and build it into deliverables.

PHP and the CMS were supposed to do this, in theory. Too many web designers don't use CMS packages for content managment, we use them as online versions of Frontpage.