I recently imported some goods from china, cost me about $1500, when they arrived they were faulty.

I have dealt with the company previously and they did once before send me a faulty batch, which at that time, I thought it could be a one off so I accepted replacements which were ok. So I thought it was just a one off, could happen to anyone.

But I just received another faulty batch and they want me to accept replacements, but I would like a refund and not to do further business with them.

After offering me replacements, I replied requesting a refund instread under the circumstances and since then have received no communication.

I paid via Paypal, thinking I had buyer protection, but have just discovered that only applies to items bought via ebay. I only paid half the amount via my paypal funds , the other half Paypal pulled via my credit card, who say they can deal with that part of it and do a chargeback.

I think I have probably lost the money, but thought I would ask here if anyone has any advice. Is there any website with advice on trade laws between China and UK, as I know in UK the law states that if goods are faulty the customer is entitled to a refund, but I do not know if there is any similar law for international trade.

Not that I am in any position to hire legal aid, but maybe if I knew the facts I could communicate more strongly with them about it.

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With a credit card payment, you could be covered by the 1974 Consumer Credit Act. The Credit Card provider could be responsible for getting you your money back.

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And therein lies your problem. I had a similar situation (Italy to the US), life just tossed you a lemon, you have to make some lemonade....since ultimately your recourse is going to be essentially up to the manufacturer you purchased from, I'd take the replacements. I would reinitiate a dialogue with them leading them to believe that you will still give them future orders.

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so many problem occurs in importing faulty goods from china such as dock charges and payment mode process etc.

I think you are right and so that is what I have done. They have now replied and are going to send me replacements once I have retruned the faulty units.

Thanks

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In my experience, you did the right thing by working with the manufacturer and getting what relief you could through them. I'm in the US, but we have imported a lot of goods from China. It was very difficult ordering small quantities to guarantee quality merchandise. They were manufacturing to our specs, the samples were great, but the actual product when delivered was often inferior. We found that what button, thread, zipper, etc had to be in the contract or they would sub inferior ones. We finally started using a middleman that spent a lot of time in China. He placed huge orders through the factories and was an important customer, therefore had weight with them to make sure all of his customers' orders were done correctly. He'd also be in China to check the products coming off the line. We did develop a relationship with one manufacturer and could count on their quality. But my husband went to China and spent time with them to develop that relationship.

I think you are right, that the fact that I am only buying small quantities is very likely to be part of the problem.

Buy American

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I really don't have anything to add to what everyone else has said.

I would also have to agree to get a solution to this problem as soon as possible, which in this case is to accept the replacements. This way you can get back to your business.

I would research other companies that offer the same or comparable products (depending on your situation) and look into their return policy for faulty items.

Although these are hard to find, you could become part of a buying group, which are groups of businesses that order large bulk items from the same company.

Unfortunately in the real world this isn't always possible because of cost or the items just not being built here.

Also, American's make mistakes and make faulty products. So American products are just as likely to have problems as any other country.

And, the original poster is in the UK.

Why would you expect someone from the UK to buy American products? They buy it from China because of the cheap price. Nowadays, quality is not the priority.

Good for you. I've dealt with some business from China and have many close Asian friends here in the US. You did good.

THIS SHOWS THE NEED FOR MORE CRM CONSULTING FOR CHINESE/ASIAN BUSINESSES DOING BUSINESS WITH WESTERNERS. Customer care culture between the East and West is vastly different. If anyone hears any specific need of business CRM consulting in Asia (China or otherwise), I'd love to know. I'll be venturing out on my own come April or May and will be doing extensive travel in Asia (China and SE Asia) partly for this purpose (and partly for the pleasure, to be honest!)

Thanks,
James

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Well.... yes and no. When you log into your account, go to the "Security Center". You should see a link that says "Protection For Your Purchases".

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I don't believe the size of your order has anything to do with it. We import millions of dollars worth of electronics products from China every year, and go through this scenario more often than we'd like. It's simply an unfortunate part of doing business with Chinese manufacturers. To my recollection, we've never been successful in getting our money back, and sometimes we have to fight for replacements. If I were you I'd be happy for the replacements and find another vendor. There are plenty over there to choose from!

Depending on how spiteful you are feeling you can always call up the closest embassy or consulate, or at the very least threaten too. They have person in charge of commerce that is supposed to watch out for the made in china name. As a senior communist party official he has some leverage over manufacturers.

The spiteful part comes in more from anecdotal information than anything I have seen evidence of. I have read multiple places online over the last dozen years that multiple complaints about the head of a company can get them imprisoned or worse. While I have no doubt some of the stories are just exaggerations I have been around long enough not to put it past the chinese government to do just that. Putting melamine in pet food got many many executives imprisoned and more than a few shot in the head for "other criminal violations" so I have no doubt that the right threat would have some people worried.

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I laugh at everyone who thinks cheap unsupervised foreign labor, with unchecked subpar raw materials, excessive transportation, and no regard to the environment. Thinks that they are getting a bargin!

All this ojida / tsoris / whoa-is-me crying is the reason why I opened up my own manufacturing facitlites in the US! When a client wants a rush we do it in a few days and speak to them in the same time zone and with reference frame expectations and most important language!

If you are going to buy out of country... then do the following at least:
1) WRITE A BOILER PLATE CONTRACT THAT INCLUDES INFORMATION ABOUT MATERIAL DEFECTS
2) GET A SUPPLIER WHO HAS A REP YOU CAN MEET WITH FACE TO FACE IN YOUR NATIVE LAND
3) UNDERSTAND THAT THIS PROBLEM WILL HAPPEN TO YOU AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN.



While I sell and ship to Canada, UK and other countries. My manufacturing is under tight control under my own roof! and no middle men to mess up.....

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You have to ask yourself if price is the only thing which matters. I grew up knowing that many items made in China were cheap, inferior products. Perhaps it the mentality of the culture, it's fierce competition, or the never ending supply of desperate buyers who make it happen?

This is one of my favorite articles.

"How to Lose Your Shirt in China"

How to lose your shirt in China | Macleans.ca - Business - Companies

It certainly appears to be a different culture. I have never been to China however if I were doing business there, I would visit first. It's what I do with local business... why should it be any different for global business?

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This reminds me. Several months ago I carried an article on the subject of doing business with China:
thats Business: British Businesses Urged to be Patriotic and Pull Out of China

"‘Bring the Jobs Home!’ – says the Campaign to Keep Manufacturing in Britain..."

But if UK businesses can't afford the high prices of UK manufacturers, what are they supposed to do?

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I write about this regularly on Brad's Tiny World. This sort of nonsense is what keeps industrialized countries that were once powers houses living in the dark ages and causes their economies to fail. That slogan and all those like it in the US, Canada, Germany etc are nothing but pathetic demagoguery meant to stir up nationalism and anger at foreigners. When you live with that sort of nostalgia for long dead industry you always get away with blaming the current government for mistakes of previous ones and prevent them from making any progress towards a new economic base effectively maintaining the status quo. By maintaining the status quo the politically conservative rabble rousers get to blame everyone and take no responsibility for anything henceforth maintaining their power base.

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I'm not sure if I understand your post. Are you suggesting that people who discourage economic growth with countries which the general populace gives bad review about are trying to horde economic power for themselves?

Or are you suggesting that the economy is failing because more people are not competing in the global marketplace? or failing because they are not supporting their local economy?



Additional Note: You are the local economy. The rabble rousers who may or may not be trying to horde the economic power are us, the local economy. I don't understand how anybody can be called a rabble rouser. The only question is which is the best long term path to take, who do we listen to, and what is the next generation of rabble rousers going to say about the previous generation of rabble rousers.


In any event. It would appear that doing business with China requires more than a phone call and crossed fingers. Is anybody wrong if they persuade people not to do business with Chinese manufacturers? It's my personal stance to dissuade my clients from using Chinese drop shipping services in particular, I don't really have a stance on anything else. I think it is justified and my reasoning has nothing to do with local vs global economy or status quo.

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Bejing:

"Why waste resources on nuclear weapons when we can just bankrupt the West with unbalance trade in shoddy materials and poisonous baby food?"

Me:

"Buying a toilet seat made (and painted) in China brings a whole new meaning to the phrase 'get the lead out of your a**!"

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Importing goods from China and dealing directly with chinese is a very risky business, for the chinese a unit is a unit and they don't care if the quality is good or bad, that's why we have partnerships in China and use our own staff to inspect the goods ONE by ONE before being sent overseas, in that way our inspectors find issues and discard any product that is not complaint. As we have an office and partnership with chinese manufacturers, so we can control the quality and assure our clients complete satisfaction.

As far as recovering money from China, that is a daunting task, as normally they ask for a wire transfer, credit cards are not accepted mainly because of the fact the profit margin is too low to remain competitive, so with the credit card fees that is impossible.

If you want to even try to recover your money $1500 is nothing compared to the fees and travel expenses you have to face if you decide to proceed with a trial, and even that will not be a guarantee.

Chinese prices might be attractive but you have to be prepared to spend more than you expect when dealing with this kind of crooks.

Rick Fitzgerald
Outlet Season
OEM manufacturers

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One of my clients - Purchase from China | Consultants | Advisors | One Point Two (China) Ltd - helps companies protect themselves from this sort of thing, which happens a lot to new & inexperienced importers. I think they find close supervision, and using only one or two trusted suppliers really helps avoid these sort of problems.

A classic scam in China is to show the Western business man one factory which is state of the art, then have the work done some place else. This might be why one batch was good, and later batches not so...

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The best way to avoid these issues is to have someone on the ground at the factory or port to inspect the goods before they are shipped. Short of that, make sure that the Chinese company cares about their output. (1) At Q'Tessence, we deal with a factory that is ISO9001 certified. ISO 9001 is a quality process. If a factory is certified, it means that they have a quality management process that conforms to an international standard and that they follow it. To be certified, they must pass periodic inspections that ensure they are following their process. (2) Get references from other customers and talk to them about their defect rates and how they protect themselves. Some trade sites allow customers to rate their vendors (Alibaba, etc.) (3) If the factories believe that you will bring them increased future business, they tend to treat you better.

I have had problems with Paypal in the past. Paypal user take warning! they make it sound like they are protecting you etc but in many cases they aren't. I am betting this would be one of those cases, either because its in China where you purchased from or something to do with the bank account or who knows, possibly they dont like your middle name. Point is if they can get out of it when you need them the most they will.
I'd say smooth it over to get what you paid for with this current shipment and then find a different supplier and use a regular visa or mastercard. Visa etc will protect you as a buyer but generally not at all as a merchant.
(based on my experiances)

chandrika ,

For now, I'd recommend that you take the replacements, drop your prices to help get rid of the product as quickly and quietly as possible then find a reputable local supplier.

I'm approached by different Chinese suppliers all the time and, in my business, quality is everything. They tend to offer attractive pricing but the quality of their products often ranges from barely adequate to vastly inferior.

If you're going to continue working with suppliers from abroad, try to find manufacturers whose products are ISO certified and ask to speak with some of their clients before you sign anything.

As it currently stands, I try to find local distributors who either manufacture locally or deal with the Chinese manufacturers directly. It might cost me a little more up front, but at least I've got someone who can share in the risks and I end up with fewer problems.

Truth be told, I've found that my customers are happy to spend a reasonable amount of money for products they can trust won't fail. There are always going to be competitors with lower prices but thankfully, most people are smart enough to realize that they often get what they pay for.

Now with defective products it's no problem, I just send them back to the distributor for credit to my account. They have the stones and resources to deal with these sorts of issues effectively.

.02

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Yes, you hit the nail on the head. The UK is in a similar cost position with the US vis-a-vis Asian rivals. I manufacture leather jackets right here and I also import them. The ones we make are not matched in quality, but we're selling manufacturer direct and there is still a 3X cost disadvantage and unfortunately in a 'walmart world' you just can't afford to let 80% of the market go.

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My experiences have been different. However, in my situation(s) it was for items not delivered. Since the seller couldn't provide proof of shipment, they automatically reversed the charges and my money was back into my account in no time.

I'm not saying that to claim your experiences aren't valid. I just mean every situation is different. I agree there are outcomes that are sometimes, if not often, are unfavorable to some. But I wouldn't agree to assume painting them as being a type of corrupt company.

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