Within 25 years we will have space cabled lifts that go from earth to space stations. That trip will take about a week.

If you think this is a joke, Google geostationary position.

Free your thoughts from todays technology. Then, if sea level increases, it will be possible to pump water from earth via space stations to the moon and mars using solar energy.

Related: http://www.webproworld.com/breakroom...tml#post347360

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They've been talking about these things since I was a kid in school.. As cool as it could be, I don't see it happening any time soon..

But could you imagine the drama if the pumps malfunctioned and the siphon affect took hold and started sucking the oceans dry??

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Steve : Animal Charms Animal Jewelry | Fishing Blog
I'm smelling a whole lot of if coming off of this plan.

Funny man

Then we would get a lot of fish for a while .

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Arthur C. Clarke wrote about them, half a century ago. He worked out that the ideal Earth-site would be Sri Lanka.

He moved there.

He also predicted communications satellites with thousands of channels. For him, the biggest problem was that they would broadcast pornography to our TV sets..

A week?!?!?! But I want to be in space now!

Whaddya mean I have to wait for it to be built first?

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The best way to learn anything, is to question everything.

And Arthur C. Clarke did not patent his idea for satellite communications!

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Pump water to the moon?..... Huh. . I can not get water pumped to my taps for days at a time. I only live in Australia.

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You could use Oz beer instead. There's not a lot of difference.

Here's MY prediction. Remember you heard it here first:

Wireless electricity, beamed by satellite to anywhere it's needed. That'd change things.

Not directly to the moon. To the space stations and transported from there to the moon in space ships.

The moon is not in geostationary position to the earth.

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Kgun said
"The moon is not in geostationary position to the earth."

Well. . . . . If as you say "Not directly to the moon. To the space stations and transported from there to the moon in space ships."

I think we should 'geostationryize' the moon as the first step. . . This should cut down some of the transport costs.
If we put it in the right place this could save us the expense of buying seasonal items.

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I did not think of that possibility. May be it is possible, but not an option or even a desire in 1000 years

And what about ebb and tide that give life to the ocean? Perhaps not a problem, since the ocean may have been pumped to the moon or mars by an accident, see Fedakin's post above.


You don't mix the moon's postion to the earth with the earth's position to the sun?

If you wan't to spacestationary the earth, spacestationary it on may for us.

Our former Nobel Price winner, Bjørnstjerne Bjørnson would have chosen april (a poem by that name). A shame that he got the Nobel price and not Henrik Ibsen.

IMO that time's Nobel committee devalued Alfred Nobel's original intention by that decision. They may have chosen popularity by the people to abilities of writing.

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kgun said
"You don't mix the moon's position to the earth with the earth's position to the sun?'

No, No, No, . . Yes, I did that. My thinking was simply why not geostationaryize the lot while we are at it.

I am working on a high lift pump, The old pumps have a weight of water - gravity problem that is a little limiting. So my pump uses earths core temperature to 'Steam' enabling higher lifting capabilities. I am just having problems at the three thousand metre mark, (condensation)

I am thinking that capturing a few comets, could be more cost effective. I am just not sure if my mono-filament nylon net held in geostationary position, will be secure enough with the tent pegs?

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The biggest problem with space exploration is that with current technology there isn't anywhere 'worth' going (its interesting of course).

I saw one program where they they would colonize the moon for purposes of mining tritium to power fusion power plants.

I currently suffer from lower back pain with a recent MRI revealing three degenerative discs. A week in zero G sounds like hyper-spinal decompression bliss.

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Tra La La....Fly me to the moon.....oops! Missed......Who moved that thing ?

List of satellites in geostationary orbit

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Dead spy satellite could hit Earth - Space - MSNBC.com

This is looking like a $100 million dollar boo-boo. Hope nobody gets hurt by this thing...

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"WASHINGTON - A large U.S. spy satellite has lost power and could hit the Earth in late February or March, government officials said Saturday.

The satellite, which no longer can be controlled, could contain hazardous materials, and it is unknown where on the planet it might come down, they said. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because the information is classified as secret".

WASHINGTON - A large U.S. spy satellite has lost power and could hit the Earth in late February or March, government officials said Saturday.
The satellite, which no longer can be controlled, could contain hazardous materials, and it is unknown where on the planet it might come down, they said. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because the information is classified as secret."

As a former communication soldier on a L70 canon (L60 canon operated by a radar) lend me one and I will (try to) shoot it down for a fair profit.

But most probably my team will not hit it, since I was the worst communication soldier in the army. Did not take it seriously (one year vasted holiday). By the way I was much better on the L60, since I am a duck hunter, and shooting ducks in the air is similar to shooting movable targets in space with a L60 canon.

Better option, I should rely on luck.

Using probability calculus there is a very small probability that it will do any damage when it hits the earth.

Advice: The US should get better control of what they send into earth's orbits.

"The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because the information is classified as secret."

There are so much "secret" information on the internet, that it is difficult to find it. Time for a new Google filter, filtering out sensitive information. Most probalbly there is one already, related to a sand box.

I know it is a hoax.

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Well, that happens sometimes when you use the lowest bidder. Something tells me the government isn't to blame for this one, rather the satellite manufacturer (probably GE or Boeing). In any event, the secret isn't really that its coming down, its where, they're concerned about optics (specifically what the satellite could see at night), and encryption (they don't want people finding out how to send signals or to read the data that is coming back.....

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1. Optics from an old satellite? Is that better than todays commercial Japanese optics?
2. Encryption from an old satellite? This technology has definitely evolved, if it is not a very new one. I think it is very difficult to beat Russian mathmaticians on encryption algorithmes.
3. Opto / electronics. You use optics where it is possible, since it is difficult to beat light in speed and electronics where you have to switch on/off optics. May be.

I think it is unnecessary worry.

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Its not about 'them' copying the technology, its about 'them' understanding the capabilities of the technology. It doesn't matter if the technology is old only that the technology is still employed. Of course the Russians can encrypt things, but even if the encryption in the satellite has changed (I hope it has!) you wouldn't even want them to have an INSIGHT into how you approach the problem. Its really just institutional inertia, it was secret then, it remained a secret, they see no benefit to making it any less of a secret, so therefore it shall remain a secret.

These are different people, kgun, we're entrepeneurs, creators; the people who operate these secretive institutions, completely different mindset.

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If this was something that the US seriously cared about:

1. It would not have been published.
2. In the end, you will have no problem destroying the satellite.

The true secrets are of course not published on the internet.

As I wrote in another thread. Somebody has estimated (don't remeber who, but I think I heard it in a serious Tv program) that USA has 20 times the military power of the next power on the list in a real situation. The loss in Vietnam (I was personally against that war like I am againts the war in Iraq) was political and not military. Structural violence inside the USA is a bigger threat to your security, again my personal view. What are you afraid of, your own shadows?

<digression>
I have followed the politcal election discussions on Cnn.

Fantastic discussions. Who has impressed me most is John Edvards. I like that politician. Hillary. Too dependant on her husband. Obama. Charismatic, Kennedy like man (now supported by Ted Kennedy). Good speaker, but personally I doubt his consitency a little, and how he would act in a large political crisis.

That is democracy, even if many people here will say that money is too much involved in the elections.
</digression>

Edit: Now I think I remember, the source of the 20 times military power estimate. It is a program that is shown periodically on Norwegian Tv. It is a Danish reporter / journalist that inteviews different persons in the USA. I think I heard it before Christmas in an interview with Fareed Zakaria that I told you about in this thread: http://www.webproworld.com/breakroom...d-history.html

I could have been Josef Stiglitz that was also interviewed in that program, but I think it was Zakaria.

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Its probably just going to burn up, I just hope those 'hazardous materials' don't hurt anybody or are released into the air

You're probably right.

Well, I think we should discount the nukes. The US DOES spend more in absolute terms and as a percentage of GDP than any single European country, but if you compare the US with Europe AS A WHOLE, US spending is not 20X higher in either an absolute sense or on a per capita basis. If the US is 20X stronger than Europe, its because they're stuck with YOU on the AA guns

Relative Size of US Military Spending, 1940--2003 (TruthAndPolitics.org)

"U.S. spending on defense was 3.0% of gross domestic product in 1999, while European countries averaged 2.3%." (I am showing this figure because of course Iraq/Afghanistan is going to make the US spend more)

At the end of the day, its a personality contest. What's interesting is that you have four candidates who don't fit the traditional mold: Obama (African-American), Clinton (female), Romney (Mormon), Giuliani (Italian/Catholic)

Personally I liked Giuliani because he was a Republican mayor in a Democratic city. To me this indicates that he can craft compromises with the other side. I make an anology to a ship, the Democrats pull the steering to the left, the Republicans pull it to the right, and hopefully the ship sails straight down the center.

I think we could stand for a reduction in military spending, but naturally if military spending is reduced the treaty committments must also be reduced. The Cold War docttrine was that the US should be able to fightt 2.5 wars, ie. Germany/South Korea and one smaller conflict in Latin America (think Cuba). So, if they reduce the spending, they must also reduce the treaty committments and at this juncture that should mean a significantly reduced role in NATO. Let NATO be European on land, let NATO be US/UK/France at sea.

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See what I wrote. Europe is not one country. You confirm the impression my son got when he took one year at high school in USA. You see Europe as one country It is far different from The United States or am I wrong?

But as far as I understand, he has like John Edwards no chance. And I think the democrates will win since, as far as I understand, there is a democratic wind blowing over your country. Seen from the outside it will be either Hillary or Obama. Both are great in my opinion, aside from the minor objections mentioned above. Some months ago I was sure it would be Hillary. No I am more unsure. In my personal view, Bill's very (too) strong engagemenmt can be a disadvantage for her. I do not know the Republicans so well. In my opinion again as an outsider, McCain will be the Republican candidate. Some say he is too old. Age can be an advantage in my view.

I agree with you, I hope you get a President not drifting too much to either side.

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Florida came back against Giuliani so that is pretty much the end of him. No, I do not see Europe as 'one' country. I have been to many countries in Europe. Einmal war ich fliessend auf Deutsch, aber nicht mehr! I was merely pointing out that if you compare the spending with any SINGLE European country; of course the US looks like its spending A LOT more; whereas, if you compare it with European spending as a whole, its more, but the difference isn't as striking (1999, 3% of US GDP vis-a-vis 2.3% of EU GDP) - and of course there is a conflict at present, so naturally you will see a blip up since then....

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As I write these words, I follow the Republican debate "on Cnn". I think it is a great debate. Polite and knowledgable persons.

The debate takes place in the Ronald Reagan Library.

As an economist, with Nobel Price winner, Trygve Haavelmo, as a former teacher, I have one objection. IMO, they cite Ronald Reagan, too often. As far as I remember (correct me if it is wrong), Ronald Reagan, turned the world's largest creditor into the worlds largest debitor. Are the Democrates better on economics?

I agree with the democrates that the economy is the most important issue for the USA. That can be a though periode and restructuring should be implmented IMO as far as possible.

Somebody say that the USA is already in a recession, and they may be correct. The crisis may be deeper and broader (global) than we may reckognize. There is an observation, registration, reckognition and an action lag. An important part of the crisis may be due to the digital (especially internet) revolution, restructuring and increased efficiency in production, logistics and distribution. An online bank, broker, fund manager, advertiser, media producer, travel bureau etc. do not need expensive buildings in city centra. So part of the cirsis is IMO partly due to:

1. Computer power substituting plant and housing capital.
2. Computer power substituting some labour.
3. Technology related labour replacing traditional labour. There will be excess of some types of labour and lack of other types.
4. This development and evolution will last until a new equlibrium is established.

Seemingly we are far off topic, but not necessarily. Why not use some "Keynesian spending" (hopefully there is a multiplicator strictly > 1) to populate space? When shall humans stop killing each other on this space ship, that a lot of people mean are too heated?

Note: A balanced budget increase is expansive. I have never been a strong believer in Laffer.

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That is so funny kgun because I was at the gym watching the Reagan Library debate too! So we were walking on the treadmill watching these guys.

I'm not sure if you quite get it through the translation, but Romney and Huckabee are clearly the best spoken, McCain is the 'elder statesman' and Ron Paul is, of course, the maverick.

Ron Paul is clearly influenced by Friedman and I would say that he qualifies as a libertarian more than a Republican.

Did you catch the reference to the tenth amendment? Usually when you hear people mentioning the tenth amendment you usually hear a pro-secessionist/pro-Confederacy argument follow....which is ironic because in 1860, it was the Republicans who were the Federalists and the Democrats who were pro slavery/ pro state's rights (my how times change)

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." - Tenth Amendment (rarely cited by the Supreme Court, the Commerce Clause of the Constitution permits the US Congress to regulate virtually everything since virtually everything effects, directly or indirectly, interstate commerce.

When I went to college in the early 90s, the 'Reagonomics' was heavily discussed. The theory of 'supply side' economics grew out of the stagflation of the 70s where we saw declining supply and declinging demand (on a macroeconomic level). As a result we wound up with high unemployment, high interest rates, and high inflation, really quite the triple whammy.

Both Republicans and Democrats tried many things (ie. 'WIN' - 'Whip Inflation Now' pins), but it was Reagan who got elected on the platform of trying 'supply side' economics on the premise that the government should get smaller, cut taxes, and that the economy would be stimulated and actually increase the tax base such that tax revenue would actually increase (this is of course your Laffer curve, which apparently was written on the back of a napkin)

Notwithstanding, this is NOT what Reagan actually wound up doing. People forget, there were actually Democrats in Congress, the President must compromise! What really happened is that taxes indeed were lowered, federal spending increased (as a percentage of GDP, not just in the defense sector), and of course Reagan got a little lucky because the oil prices plummeted as well.....wow, didn't that make Reagan look good? Honestly, it was just old school Keynesian 'prime the pump'

Actually I am concerned about the national debt, and no such much with the current debt which is a manageable percentage of GDP, but rather by the lack of fiscal responsibility demonstrated by politicians on both sides of the aisle. So, I really love it when they say that Reagan put the country in debt and Clinton balanced the budget. Hmmm, that's funny because ONLY THE CONGRESS HAS THE POWER OF THE PURSE. Not the Republican Party, not the Democratic Party.

Which is funny because if I have a business project and I delegate it to John and Sally to do and it doesn't get done and John blames Sally and Sally blames John, I personally could care less, I'm firing both of them (well more like 'I don't care, work it out, get it done.) But, We the People, let them get away with pointing the finger at the other party. Its the Republicans and Democrats, in their collective capacity, as Members of Congress, who continue to spend more than comes in.

That's my diatribe for the night, but yes, they invoke Reagan far too often.

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they actually shot down that satellite by the way.....or aren't admitting to missing....

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I saw that on the news. Above, I said that it would be easy.

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going back to the whole water/melting ice caps thing...

i think it may be cheaper and easier and more economical just to keep some very big (like aircraft hanger sized) freezers full of ice (probably underground as i hear it's way cooler down there).
These "mega-freezers" could be solar/wind/tidal powered.

Also this would be much safer than potentially losing (if someone pushes the wrong button/broken pipe/seal etc) some if not all of the only water in the entire [known] universe, into the ever expanding vacuum that is space.

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Why did you (kgun) head this thread "Space Lifts" ? You have to go back quite a long way to find any relevant content.

Don't you think that there could be a reason for threads having titles ? Now you're hi-jacking your own thread.

1. I constanly go off topic (especially in the break room - ask my children in real life). It is you that don't like that.
2. Without principles, there would be no principle to break.

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Of course ! What a clever reply (what was the question again ?). That certainly explains why you called this thread "Space Lifts". How naive to see a thread called "Space Lifts" and expect that to be the subject. The signature "kgun" should make it clear that titles have no bearing on content, and that all threads are just for your personal amusement, for you to empty your half-formed, incoherent, irrelevant and often insulting ramblings into, with no regard for the forum rules, or other subscribers.

What's your next move ? Yet another promise that this is your final post ? You have demonstrated that those promises mean just about as much as the rest of the "unprincipled" garbage which comes from you. Despite your apparent belief to the contrary, WPW is NOT your trash can. Throw it somewhere else !

There we go again

It seems to me that you contribute too. Take a bayer man and have a happy night, thehappysmoker.

Why not ask Mike to become a breakroom moderator?

"empty your half-formed, incoherent, irrelevant and often insulting ramblings": Is this a new Danish washing powder?

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