The solar system closest to us is 4 solar years away, so you have to move very fast (about 10 000 km/ second) to move from solar system to solar system?

Can that be possible? May be if you tangent the atmosphere of planets in our solar system to accelerate your speed.

The idea is chaotic dynamics.

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What do you mean by 'tangent the atmosphere'?

First, we have to develop a drive that will produce continued acceleration of 1g and then half way, deceleration of 1 g. Why? You tell me, and I will tell you if you are correct.

Okay, I might know what you mean. Using planets to 'slingshot', or, get gravitational boost.

This has zero to do with chaos, please don't insult my intelligence. The dynamics are very, very, very, very precise. Tell me you don't understand Newtonian dynamics, or general relativity.

It seems you don't.

Don't forget, kgun, that I never graduated from high school. How does it feel to have a dropout that knows more than you?

<cite>
"Some years ago American scientists used "chaotic dynamics" so that a spaceship / rocket was able to leave our solar system".
</cite>
You may find it on Google.

The cite is according to my memory. I do not remember the source.

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Why do the words KGun and chaotic dynamics seem to fit together so perfectly?

Off you go KGun - let us know what it's like out there - e-mail us

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Oh dear - Oh dear - I have not laughed quite as much for a very long time

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I have two unread PMs in my inbox, that is unread. Will read them when I have finished rading (commenting) 3 other WPW posts.

Will I get my own planet out there? Then my wish is:

1. A woman that will love me for at least 3 years (My ex Danish stood me for 13 years)
2. A lot of fish and wild animals so I can go hunting.
3. Beautiful clean beaches, horses and no cars.
4. Some Australians and Canadians to discuss with.
5. English breakfeast and Ukrainian beer.

As a moderator on 2 forums, you will be on my address list.

P.S. There are a lot of ants that know more than me about ... our solar system may be, not talking about the dolphins and ....

How does the ants find their home: "There is strong indication that they navigate according to the position of the sun, magnetism etc".

Everything for a man from England of course

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ctabuk, we are alike! It is like shooting fish in a barrel, but it is fun!

But of course! I just know that a wildly spinning and unpredictable spaceship will do exactly as planned, LMFAO!

Why don't you find it on google, or how about NASA?

Yeah, like how it is wildly unpredictable when you drop an apple, what will happen. I can see the future! It will drop and hit the ground!

KGun wrote

'A lot of fish and wild animals so I can go hunting'


Typical Human - arrives on a new planet and the first thought is 'wipe out the indiginous wildlife - I am Human - I kill to eat.

I suggest you take more supplies with you. Grow crops and harvest them. Learn about the different species before getting the 12 bore out.

Do a Noah's Ark - take breeding animals in your spacecraft. If you have to shoot the wildlife use a camera.

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mikmik said

'It is like shooting fish in a barrel, but it is fun!'

Oh NO - another animal hater. So you take a salmon, place it in a wooden barrel and then fire a bazooka at it.

It is the end of civilisation.

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Don't do that, Dave. You may put him off going.

Ground ? What ground ? Coffee ? Nuts ? It can be wildly unpredictable when you drop acid, what will happen. You can see the future!

If KGun didn't exist we'd have to invent him.

It is the end of civilisation. Maybe, but which end is it ?

This is quite possibly the best scientific discussion I've ever seen. You guys deserve your own TV show.

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The End of Civilization

Can you imagine actually being in Rome when Hanibal turned up with all those Elephants

'The drains won't cope centurian, look at the size of that turd and talk about bad mannered'

'Yes Septus - I see the Senate have buggered off -well I suppose we'd better make a quick exit! At least with Spartacus he knew something about Rome's philosophies, but look at this lot, haven't seen a bath in years'

And so the sun sank on the Roman Empire

'What's this Hanibal'?

'It's a plate'

'What's it used for'?

'Ask Ernest the Greek he knows that stuff'

'OYY Greek Ern - what's a plate'?

'Dunno mate, but there's a sellers one on this afternoon and I've got ten dinahs on Turkish Delight'

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point taken.
Okay, so we're in this "wildly spinning and unpredictable spaceship" between galaxies, and we drop an apple. Now what ?

It's just occurred to me. We're concerning ourselves with speed and acceleration, when all we really need is one of those "Beam me up Scotty" thingies. We could travel anywhere, instantaneously. (Anyone remember "The Fly" ?)

Happysmoker said 'and we drop an apple. Now what '?



That would be an Appellation

In fact the apple would simply float -it would be pulled by gravitation and would begin it's journey around the cosmos.

So why don't they build a spaceship based on magnetic gravitational fields - let the sun pull it then turn left or right when you see something interesting?

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Whilst I'm by no means a physicist, I'm not sure this would work (assuming I'm on the same line of thought here). The sun's gravitational pull is immense. Pluto and other planetary objects in the Kuiper belt at a distance of 39AU~ (or 3.62527962 × 10^9 miles) are still subject to the Sun's gravitational pull and it's likely that undiscovered objects with an even greater AU are subject to it also. With this in mind, your theoretical spaceship would require a significant mass in order to repel this force and continue along an independent, self-perpetuating course.

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I'm far too technically advanced on Astro Physics - don't they sell tin foil in Dunstable

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LOL - Yes, and you can pick up a few used yoghurt pots and loo rolls for your new spaceship too

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That's the answer ! Blue Peter. They'll show you how to build it (but don't go in for their competitions).

I'll dig out my Meccano set and donate it to our endeavour. We have to be serious about such an undertaking. Lives may be at risk.

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Can I get that in a written letter?

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Yes - here's a pen - get scribbling

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You need a chaotic process to control another chaotic process, and the force need not be strong. Search Google for the "butterfly wing" and you will get an anwser. The point is, if the apple's movement is used in the correct way, it may stabilize the space ship.

Message: "An apple a day, keeps a doctor away".

More serious:
A saddle is hanging in a rope from the roof with a football in it. The football is maximal unstable. Then you may use a computer to control the movment of the football so it does not fall out of the saddle or, was this classic mechanics, mikmik

KW search: control of mathematical chaos

If you fully understand the theory behind the butterfly wing, and the spaceship follows a chaotic orbit, you need a ml (milliliter) of fuel to completely change direction of the space ship. Q.E.D.

Study the "lorentz attractor" on the picture of the Wikipedia link above, and you may get an idea of how it works. The "lorenz attractor" is not the simplest, there is a simpler, the Henon attractor from the Henon map.

X(n+1)=y(n) + 1 - aX(n)X(n)

y(n+1) = bx(n).

This is definitely my subject.

Note:
Since classical and quantum mechanics are special cases of chaotic systems living on a strange attractor, the Henon map may have classic solutions for some values of the parameters a and b. There are what is called "chaotic windows" in the map.

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Patent it or


is that space ship our earth?

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While you guys are busy with your frivolous games, I have been hard at work on this.

It seems to me that a matter transmitter is the correct solution. The transmitter itself is not a major problem, it's just a question of technology.

However, the stumbling block is that there would need to be a receiver at the destination, for the matter to be transmitted to.

The solution ? We send KGun ahead with it, and he can install it when he gets there. Thereafter, the device should work properly.

Two birds with one stone.

QED

Kgun said
"The solar system closest to us is 4 solar years away, so you have to move very fast (about 10 000 km/ second) to move from solar system to solar system?"

Yes I can imagine that. . But it offers me the pondering thought. at what point does distance cease to be a reality.
For example If a planet is a hundred light years away. Is it real. I understand the argument that ' we know it was there a hundred years ago' but I am not totally happy with agreeing with it.

What distance does "reality" last for

Note.
For a long time I have this recurring image that pops into my head. It is simply of the earth a very pretty planet, then I have this image of man, ejaculating into space towards some unknown planet.... possibly this means I think man could be no more than earths seed. The though of a human landing on some distant universe with a few glass vials that will set in motion the introduction of new life in a few hundred thousand years hence. and then sitting back until his supplies ran out. Just a seed, a purpose in life. . . (trippy)

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It will be much easier to build mega structures in space than on earth, once technology is on a little higher level. The best place to start is on the moon.

Supertankers will be small in comparison.

There will be no problem building small space villages. There will be no probem building 10 000 space villages to the outer of our solar system.

Good news. I leave now for some days. Bad news, I may return after a short holiday.

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The Earth can turn right or left when it sees something interesting ?

Pat - you need to see a specialist!!!

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KGun wrote
'Good news. I leave now for some days. Bad news, I may return after a short holiday'.

Anything to get out of going on ahead to set happysmokers Matter transmiter. Typical -self,self,self _ I mean, it's not as if it could be dangerous.

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" Pat - you need to see a specialist!!!"

No, No No. ask ctabuk. Nobody that lived through the 60s will ever be realy sane. (I mean 'lived' in a real sense not someone who happened to have a pulse at the time)

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I think I meant
I have this image of man, ejaculated into space

that might have been a Freudian slip...

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I barely remember the 60's -I was just a nipper on a Lambretta LI150 - a simple beer swilling youth - I seem to recall - Carnaby Street - those Bull Fighter Posters with your photo on - Mods vs Rockers -The Who on the Isle of Wight -first wage packet -first 'real girlfriends' - The Beatles - The Stones -Amen Corner -Procul Harem - Yardbirds - first guitar cost Ten Shillings -Beer was One Shilling and threepence a pint -that's 6.5new pence today.
Winklepickers, The Allisons winning the Eurovision with 'Are you Sure' - Telstar - Heinz leaving some band or other. The Shadows, The Dallas Boys with 'While Driving in my Limousine'

No, can't say I remember much.

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Oh and Greenshield Stamps - Embassy Ciggies and collecting the coupons to pay for a respirator for use in later life.
Twiggy, Mommas and the Papas - Wilson Picket, Chubby Checker, Tony Newley, The Springfields, Anne bloody Shilton, Two Way Family Favourites, The Goon Show, Boots and Saddles, Rin Tin Tin, Tin Tin, Radio Luxembourg and that advert KEYNSHAM -Horis Batchelors famous Infradraw Football system. England winning the World Cup.

No - I don't remember much at all

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Do you mean ejected?

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Tossed out ?

Yeah - Also music titles in those days -they meant something. Romantic titles like

I am a Mole and I live in a hole

Nutcracker Suite - by Bee Bumble and the Stingers

Mummy fetch me a glass of water - by Danny I'm as Bent as a ninebob note Kaye

Brontasauras Romp - by the Piltdown Men

It's a Broad briche moonlite night - by Lord Rockinghams Eleven.

Classy names and titles in those days

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Where's the Mods when you need them

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I may be wrong (I'm a lot older than you, and my mind isn't what it was), but wasn't that "stomp" ?

Yup you are correct - next weeks trick reply will be on Max Bygraves singing

Gilly, Gilly, Ossenfeffer, Katzenellen Bogen by the SeaGilly, Gilly, Ossenfeffer, Katzenellen Bogen by the Sea

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"Do you mean ejected?"

No I meant Man Ejaculated into space,,, (man being the seed of earth)
You skipped quickly through that post. . I simply wrote ejaculating instead of ejaculated.. (big difference & my error)

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Max Bygraves lives on the Gold Coast (Queensland) so I have been told, I heard he retired their. I heard him chatting on the radio last year, I found myself compelled to listen to him. It must be the remnants of my British soul hanging on to long lost times..

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Yes, he's 85 - mind you anyone who can make money out of 'I'm a pink toothbrush -you're a blue toothbrush' has got to be respected.

Remember his terrible 'Deck of Cards' copy of Tex Ritters classic? And before someone say's Wink Martindale did it - he did but Tex had the original.

Edit

Don't you just love Google
T. Texas Tyler This guy had the first hit with it - I was wrong

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I remember him (Max Bygraves) playing the part of Al Jolsen in a radio version of "The Jolsen Story". Surprisingly good, too. He was also the stooge comedian to Archie Andrews (a ventriloquists's dummy) also on radio. (You couldn't see Peter Brough's lips moving).

I remember Archie Andrews - a vent on Radio -hehe - he followed Uncle Max on kids radio Saturday mornings.

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Did you know that Al Jolson had an accident in a Western he was filming?

Yes, apparantly he was playing with a sixgun and it went off hitting him in the foot.



Toot Toot Tootsie Goodbye

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AU = distance from earth to sun.
No, we are talking special relativity here, as in which ways is down for the acid to get to, and does anything matter (pun) after that?

The suns gravitational pull is tiny, but you haven't experienced central Milky way, or Cygnus, for example. My ex wife had a black hole, it sucked everything into it, powerful attraction, that!

Vincent Price?

back to basics:
Mass attracts. This is gravitation. Are you meaning inertia? Like charges repel, as well as atomic states - see Pauli exclusion.

I am no physicist, but conjecture should be based on knowledge, you think?

hahahaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!
kgun = Yeah, tell me about it. I also know QM, and I for sure know 'classical' systems. Based on chaos? LMFAO times googal.

You are full of shite. Kopernicus and Newton equations, have zero to do with probabilities, you bullshitter. No clasical system or explanation does. You are OCD about chaos, but you are full of shit.

Remember, I never graduated from high school. But also, QM is not in the least chaotic. You cannot make probablities reliably with chaos, but QM is verified to millions of percentage points. Same with SR and GR.

STFU about chaos already, it is passe. Hey, can you predict the flow out of a faucet, at a certain rate of flow, seconds ahead?
Describe likelihoods of physical drop formations?

Everyone, this guy is full of shit, and I will continue to prove it.

I mean it, kgun, you know Feynman diagrams. There is **** all to do with chaos to describe fundamental particle interactions. Fundamental reality is not chaotic. It may be random, at a basic level. But ultimately, iron clad rules govern, and chaos in complex open systems is allowed. This is a derivative of first causes and reality.

Do not push your pathetic whimsies on to an interpretation of how physics, and reality works. Even a complex system, none more complex, like your brain, is not governed by chaos. You could never form coherent thoughts if it was. Ooops, maybe yours is chaotic, coherent thought being the test! LMFAO!

Sorry - double posting. Just damned excited to be here I guess.