Star Trek / Star Wars storyline flaws

jawn_tech · #1 (**permalink**) 01-03-2005, 04:03 AM

Two of my favorite running series are Star Trek and Star Wars. Interesting that the more we get to know about a show or movie series that we love the most, the more we're able to find the 'oops'.

Well guess what -- I've got a bunch of them. I've found certain things that either of the two sagas did that weren't true to its storyline, or the writers made a chronological blunder, or perhaps tried to slip something by us that wasn't buy-able -- for those who actually caught it.

I know they're just tv shows/movies. But just for fun conversation, I've decided to start a thread of a running list -- feel free to comment or add your own. In the end, it should flatter the creators of these sagas, as these are two of the most detailed and consistent storylines in sci-fi history, and only true fans can catch them.

Where to begin?

I'll start with two. The first is Jabba the Hut from Star Wars. He became famous in Return of the Jedi (Episode 6), as the fat green slimy monster who had Han Solo confined in frozen carbonite. But DVD owners of the re-released original Star Wars may have noticed Jabba was actually in the first movie made (which was Episode 4, "A New Hope"). The flaw? Jabba originally appeared briefly as a human - a big guy, but human. I don't know if George Lucas forgot about him when he made Return~Jedi, but when CG technology came out they went back and super-imposed a digital Jabba over the human actor (I wonder if the screen actors guild complained...?)

The second is the languages spoken. On all the Star Wars movies, C3-PO is used as an interpreter...but why? All the humans speak their language (filmed originally in English), but the aliens who speak other languages can always understand them -- the only exception I've found was the Ewoks in Return~Jedi. Yet the aliens speak their language, and the humans speak theirs, and they understand each other. Han Solo seems to understand so many languages, (including Wookie) but never speaks them.

(more to come...star trek too)

ctabuk · #2 (**permalink**) 01-03-2005, 06:50 AM

Does this mean that not only are you after World domination, outer space too?
Happy New Year oh Master

minstrel · #3 (**permalink**) 01-03-2005, 11:25 AM

"Damn it, Jawn... I'm a doctor, not a doctor! No, wait... that's wrong..." -- Son of a Bones

globalhostinggroup · #4 (**permalink**) 01-03-2005, 12:00 PM

Humm.. never seen a toilet on startrek.
Given the amount of episodes you think someone would have to use the latrine.
There is not one off the main bridge witch means they have to go to another deck to go?

The elevator always seems to be their such a big ship so many floors only one elevator but oddly enough no one has to wait for one.

mtheory · #5 (**permalink**) 01-03-2005, 12:02 PM

In Star Trek, any storyline flaw can easily be explained as a short trip to an alternate universe.

Time travel is allowed in Star Trek so any timeline discrepencies can also be explained.

With this said, can it be possible that it is actually the observer that is flawed?

M-Theory Information Technology

"M-theory. Theory emerging from the superstring revolution that unites the previous superstring theories within a single overarching framework"

jawn_tech · #6 (**permalink**) 01-04-2005, 01:57 AM

Yes that's right. No latrines on Star Trek. No wonder they keep looking for M-class planets, preferably with bushes.

There's a slew of questionable things with the holodeck. In principle, it's believable. A mix of replicator and transporter technology to make holographic images with substance and animate them with a powerful computer. Hey, it's the future, so they can pull off adding scents, wind, fire, and chemical properties. But they say what was created by the holodeck can't exist outside the holodeck room. Why then are people still wet when they leave the holodeck after a program with water.

It also makes me wonder about things that are brought into the holodeck from the outside. For instance, speaking of latrines, if someone uses one created by the holodeck, what happens after they say "end program"? I'd hate to be the janitor...

Quote:

Does this mean that not only are you after World domination, outer space too?
Happy New Year oh Master

lol ctabuk. just call me Anakin Skywalker. Happy New year to you too, my friend.

Quote:

can it be possible that it is actually the observer that is flawed?

lol, that goes without saying. I need to get out more. :)

mtheory · #7 (**permalink**) 01-04-2005, 09:12 AM

Every episode has one obvious flaw. When the Enterprise flies by, you can HEAR it.

Hmmmm, sound in a vacume(space). Seems to break the most basic laws of physics.

globalhostinggroup · #8 (**permalink**) 01-04-2005, 10:00 AM

Well the holo deck can be explained if it is also a mix or replication device transporter and holographic technologies
Hummm….
You really hit on something here
Does the replacator make the cup as well as the drink?
What the He// does picard do with those thousands of cups from his earl gray tea addiction?
Come to think of it I have never seen a garbage can or a vacuum cleaner.

minstrel · #9 (**permalink**) 01-04-2005, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by globalhostinggroup

Come to think of it I have never seen... a vacuum cleaner.

In the future, humans finally understand why dogs and cats are so afraid of vacuum cleaners...

globalhostinggroup · #10 (**permalink**) 01-04-2005, 12:45 PM

What happened to all of the pets anyway you very rarely see someone with a pet only on TNG I think and it was that robot that got one?
Is data a over glorified vacuum cleaner?

ctabuk · #11 (**permalink**) 01-05-2005, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by globalhostinggroup

Humm.. never seen a toilet on startrek.
Given the amount of episodes you think someone would have to use the latrine.
There is not one off the main bridge witch means they have to go to another deck to go?

The elevator always seems to be their such a big ship so many floors only one elevator but oddly enough no one has to wait for one.

Hi ghg, glad you changed your mind!
Portholes, that's what they use as toilets. Outer space is full of Klingon crap, Ferengies do it in their pants - which is why they walk funny and nobody likes them. Chewbacker, ditto, hence the brown fur, they are albino's by nature.
Elavators, no answer for that one.

globalhostinggroup · #12 (**permalink**) 01-05-2005, 10:07 AM

Hummm
why do the ships explode in battle they should implode?

minstrel · #13 (**permalink**) 01-05-2005, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by globalhostinggroup

why do the ships explode in battle they should implode?

Why? They are in a vaccuum and contain a pressurized atmosphere -- why should they implode? It's not like a submarine...

globalhostinggroup · #14 (**permalink**) 01-05-2005, 11:17 AM

Humm you are right I’m thinking under water
How about the communicators how is it you never here all these thousands of people talking but there is no numbers to dial but you have to just push a button to talk?

minstrel · #15 (**permalink**) 01-05-2005, 11:35 AM

Speed-dial? That's how my cell phone works... :o)

globalhostinggroup · #16 (**permalink**) 01-05-2005, 11:42 AM

But there is only 1 button
Witch suggests walkie-talkie function.

mtheory · #17 (**permalink**) 01-05-2005, 01:33 PM

How about casting flaws.

In one of the movies they cast Christopher Lloyd as a Klingon captain.

I just couldn't get past seeing Jim Ignatowski giving orders in Klingon.

That is actual Klingon scroll.

jawn_tech · #18 (**permalink**) 01-06-2005, 03:41 AM

The thing they finally understood about vacuums is that, well, vaccuums suck.

(sorry, had to take that one)

The thing I noticed about the communication on the Enterprise though, is that the captain never has to push a button. He just sort of calls out to who he wants to speak with most of the time. Must be the ship's computer is really fast to figure out what Picard wants to do.

Hmm, the ship's computer. Another good point. The amazing attribute about Data the android is his artificial intelligence. But if you notice, the holodeck has amazing artificial intelligence, because it can generate characters such as Einstein, crew members --- even the modern physicist Steven Hawkins once. So why not move the bridge to the holodeck or vice/versa, and generate supplemental crew members who are quick-thinking problem solvers like Data. Especially when up against the Borg.

Even with Data's remarkable positronic brain, he couldn't grasp emotion without the chip that came much later. However the holodeck was able to create characters that understood and emulated emotion.

(Though I haven't seen too many Voyager episodes, I understand the doctor was an ai hologram)

ctabuk · #19 (**permalink**) 01-06-2005, 05:57 AM

Yup, played by Robert Picardo with Kate Mulgrew as Janeway but she sounded like Katherine Hepburn with flu, you didn't miss much except they did more Borg stuff.

globalhostinggroup · #20 (**permalink**) 01-06-2005, 09:37 AM

Don’t get me started with that one where does star trek sit now with that future starship with all that technology? That captain has no regard for the space time continuum she is worse then Q.

ctabuk · #21 (**permalink**) 01-06-2005, 09:54 AM

I liked Q at least he had a sense of fun, he would have been a great moderator here at WPW, you could post something naughty, next thing you know you'd be in the void.

jawn_tech · #22 (**permalink**) 01-07-2005, 02:48 PM

Q was one of my favs too. His irreverance and sarcasm while being powerful really came across well by the actor. The character was well written too I think. Really, I liked the whole show, STNG. Flaws are like finding easter eggs, in a way.

I was disappointed Nemesis didn't do well at the box office. I thought it was great, but not the ending. Data simply must return. My theory on that is they'll find his head floating in space, and replace it on the dumb prototype brother they found.

Star Wars Episode 3 has its work cut out, putting together a lot of loose ends and puzzle pieces connecting Episode 2 with Episode 4 (original Star Wars). One thing I think they made an "oops" in, is that Obi Wan doesn't remember R2-D2 in Episode 4. But as we saw in the prequels so far, is that R2-D2 has always been instrumental in protecting the Senator/princess and was part of the team. Younger Kenobi knew R2 well, (there weren't other R2 units in their cast of characters). But in Star Wars 4, the older Kenobi acts like it's the first time they met. I wonder if Episode 3 will address the memory loss.

ctabuk · #23 (**permalink**) 01-07-2005, 03:23 PM

OK, here is a deep question - The Borg never - as far as we know had a home planet, so as they gathered their flocks from around the universe, where did they keep all their converts, a cube is only so big surely?

globalhostinggroup · #24 (**permalink**) 01-07-2005, 04:23 PM

They had a system of planets in the alpha quadrant voyager found it and the captain traveled back in time with a supped up starship and no crew to destroy them all who is she to judge

http://www.firsttvdrama.com/endgame/index.php3

minstrel · #25 (**permalink**) 01-07-2005, 08:04 PM

I suggest all you guys stop worrying about Star Trek and re-examine Space Balls.

jawn_tech · #26 (**permalink**) 01-07-2005, 11:35 PM

Quote:

I suggest all you guys stop worrying about Star Trek and re-examine Space Balls.

Yes! May the schwartz be with you! lol

jawn_tech · #27 (**permalink**) 01-12-2005, 10:02 PM

Oh, here's a slip up.

Scotty. Engineer from original Enterprise. He appeared on STNG, (which of course is a few hundred years later) as his pattern buffer was kept preserved in continuous loop in the transporter on a crashed ship. The STNG crew found the ship, with the transporter still functional, and brought him out. One of the first things he said, before he realized how much time had passed before his rescue, was "I'd be surprised if Jim Kirk himself didn't send you to find me!"

However, the writers must have forgotten this when they made the movie "Generations". As they showed the history there, the last contact Scotty had with Captain Kirk was when the new Enterprise ship that was built sustained heavy damage on an unexpected rescue mission, and Captain Kirk was blown away out of the ship. Of course we learned Captain Kirk was caught up in the Nexus, but didn't re-emerge in our dimension until Picard pulled him out of the Nexus. This was about 5 years after Scotty was rescued from the transporter loop and made that statement about Jim Kirk sending a resuce team to find him. Essentially, it was a writing blooper since Generations showed that for all Scotty and history knew, Kirk was already presumed dead.

minstrel · #28 (**permalink**) 01-12-2005, 10:20 PM

Yeah, but dark Helmet knew he was alive. He could have relayed the info to Scotty via Barf (full name Barfolomew).

"Why didn't anyone tell me my ass was so big?!??"

ctabuk · #29 (**permalink**) 01-13-2005, 05:23 AM

Because we can only see your head, so we did not know!

minstrel · #30 (**permalink**) 01-13-2005, 10:14 AM

:o)

Those are again references to SpaceBalls. The quote is from the Captain after he goes through the transporter and looks down to realize he's been reassembled with his head on backwards.

ctabuk · #31 (**permalink**) 01-13-2005, 10:32 AM

Minstrel has the sense of humour of a borg,if he does take over I'm in the *****

minstrel · #32 (**permalink**) 01-13-2005, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctabuk

Minstrel has the sense of humour of a borg

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

I watched maybe one and a half episodes total of the later Star Trek series -- without James T. Kirk's overacting, it just didn't seem to be the same for me...

ctabuk · #33 (**permalink**) 01-13-2005, 11:12 AM

You are missing the whole joke, you said about your fat ass,and I replied - we can only see your head so we don't know, come on Minstrel - wakey wakey

minstrel · #34 (**permalink**) 01-13-2005, 12:22 PM

"Me lose brain cells? Uh-oh." -- Homer Simpson

ctabuk · #35 (**permalink**) 01-13-2005, 12:46 PM

Now I will follow you - oh Master

jawn_tech · #36 (**permalink**) 01-13-2005, 02:55 PM

Though it's been a while since I saw it, Spaceballs seemed like the incarnation of all that is flawed in sci-fi, and even was crazy enough to parody Wizard of Oz to an extent in the midst of it all, if I remember correctly. Hysterical.

Wasn't that John Candy as Barf?

My reasons for getting into STNG so much was though I was skeptical, I heard it was going to be somewhat geeky and cerebral. I was hoping for more involvement from the original cast until I realized it was taking place much later in the timeline of star trek. (although Bones made a cameo in part 2 of the first episode, I think) Wasn't the same. I just began to really like it as its own show, and for the most part it kept true to the saga of Star Trek. I never did get into the spin-offs that followed, though.

That said, Deep Space 9 did bring up a good point (an episode I only read about and didn't see), when the crew had an encounter with the original Enterprise and cast through time travel of sorts. The question was raised to Worf, why do the Klingons now look so much different than before? (big, tall, with lobster foreheads as opposed to the old days of just bronze skin with bushy eyebrows) Hard to answer that in the story without letting a makeup artist intervene... From what I understand, Worf brushed off the question by saying he didn't want to talk about it, so I think it's still unresolved, right?

minstrel · #37 (**permalink**) 01-13-2005, 10:08 PM

Yes... Barf was John Candy and their spaceship was in fact a Winnebago with wings.

"Name?"
"Barf."
"Full name?"
"Barfolomew."

jdiben · #38 (**permalink**) 01-13-2005, 10:45 PM

Heres another slip up.

In Star Trek 5 the Enterprise traveled to the center of the galaxy. The trip took only a few hours if i remember correctly. My memory isnt that good so lets just say the trip took 1 week. That means that at top speed it would have taken Captain Kirks Enterprise 2 weeks to travel from one side of the galaxy to the other. Now Captain Janeways newer, faster, better starship Voyager was projected to take something like 40 years to make its way back to earth from another part of the same galaxy. Maybe in the future they ran out of the good antimatter.

Joe

ctabuk · #39 (**permalink**) 01-16-2005, 07:22 AM

Yesterday I watched Voyager, it was raining. Kes (cor!) wanted to help to Doctor to regain his memory, this was more important than being chased by millions of tiny space ships - who then caught up with Enterprise and attached themselves to the hull and started to beam aboard. What did Kes do? she went to Janeway and asked if could spare Billarda (or whatever, klingon chick)to help her fix the Doctor, who is a hologram. What a story line!

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode