If you believe in God, or if, like me, you are an atheist, I think you will find this interesting.

It seems that scientists are currently searching for God, and, at the same time trying to find out why so many people believe in him/her/it.

A fascinating article, 'though I'm not too certain why it was in The Economist:

The science of religion | Where angels no longer fear to tread | Economist.com

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I read that article and it did not make me question my stance as an atheist. I use the word "stance" rather than "belief" as I somehow feel I am always made to defend my belief that there is no god.

Christians can always throw the line "If you don't have faith then you don't understand" which I translate as "if you don't agree with me then you are wrong". No scientific fact to backup their argument, I am just "wrong" and that is that.

I was raised in a catholic household, my Mother a real devout christian "some things just are" but my father always taught me to question. Its like that, "ok who say's so?" just because it is written does not make it so.

The fact that I have to defend my view that I have not seen this person so I don't believe he exists to people who say I haven't seen him either but he does exist because it is written in an old book so it must be true beggars belief. Some of our worlds greatest minds can rationalize an argument but mention "God", "a God" or "the God" and sense and sensibility takes a walk out the door.

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I wish I could make the same claim to having arrived at my way of thinking by myself, but I can't. I was raised an atheist (my father was the type of atheist who insisted on his family reading the bible, so that he could point out every fallacy and logic fault). I'm fully aware that I have been brainwashed just as much as any religious fanatic, but I really can't understand how anyone can believe all that stuff about magic and an invisible being who created everything, including himself, etc. etc.

I'm not saying they're wrong, only that I am incapable of understanding them (just as they are probably incapable of understanding the firmness of my lack of belief).

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If that holds true, then the same could be said of anything written by an atheist.

.02

Religion - a great idea that was ruined by the manipulative actions of a handful of men.

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You should watch South Parks series about imagination land, then you will believe that not just God is real, but the Care Bears, Aslan, Charlie Brown, Alien, terminator, predator, as well...all much more real than me and you.

South Park proved it just in time, as terrorists had invaded Imagination land, so the army were going to nuke it, because imaginations were running wild, luckily all ends well. Although strawberry Shortcake got a bit of a kicking from some storm troopers.

hehe

watch it
there is a preview here
YouTube - South Park - imagination land (billy talent-perfect world)

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I myself have a lot of questions, but I believe in God, I just don't believe in religion...
but then again, if there is no God, what happens after death??

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What do you mean by "death" ?

I (an atheist) think that life goes on forever (but WE don't - except as memories).

Just check out a compost heap. Life keeps on going, changing its form after each stage, eating itself and making new compost.

I don't think it's what religions mean by "everlasting life", but that's how it seems to me.

Before you ask - I have absolutely NO IDEA about the purpose of it all (in fact I see no reason to suppose there is one. Whose would it be ?). Have you ?

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Actually the more I know about science the more I believe. Many people think that the two are 'at odds' and to the extent that science blasts holes through established religions, I suppose that is true.

First and foremost, I absolutely believe that all people have a right to conscience: to believe, (have a 'stance'), not believe, etc.

One of the great things about mankind is our ability to ponder our creation, existence and our ultimate mortality. Unfortunately tthroughout our history we have taken this 'great debate' to its lowest common denominator and have waged holy wars, Crusades, jihad, Inquisitions, Holocaust/genocide, etc. to impose beliefs or to kill adherents of another faith.

The reason science actually continues to confirm my faith is my fascination with the intricate details of the physical world. For instance, with respect to recognizing physical properties or the physical laws of nature, its often helpful to defer to scientists. For example, hydrogen is hydrogen, oxygen is oxygen and in fact these elements possess certain properties which can be proven through the scientific method. However, what the scientific method does not explain (and I suggest cannot be explained) is why these elements possess these properties at all.

With respect to life, I have seen the results of experiments where scientists will take a certain common mixture of some type of hydro-carbon, they will expose it to electricity for a prolonged period of time and voila, the scientist will pull out the primordial amino acid goo which we all know to be the building blocks of life. Now, of course, the scientist can't run the experiment for millions of years (that would be ludicrous), but the implication is that the physical world can produce the elementts of life quite naturally, without diviine intervention. Actually I think this provides an excellent insight into the formation of life.

At some point in time the amino acids build more complex molecules and ultimately form DNA (which in the experiment described above is the implication). Whether the process is gradual or spontaneous is of no consequence to me. At the end of the day we have chemical combinations that have no life to combinations that are actively 'alive' which, to me, is an attribute that cannot be quantified and seems to be an attribute that is greater than the sum of its parts.

I fully understand that humans tend to attribute things they don't understand to the divine. Notwithstanding I would suggest that the 'Why?' questions never stop.

Just to make sure that I am not misunderstood. This is simply a belief. I CANNOT prove it through the scientific method. It does not belong in a science classroom. In the educational setting it would properly belong in a philosophy classroom. I firmly believe that to seek 'truth' we cannot confine ourselves to a ridgid dogma.

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I tend to stay away from religious threads in US forums. As, well some States are far more religious than others. But one fact is pretty undeniable. We (Mankind) invented the name God. We wrote it first.

I often wondered in what the Dinosaurs were doing here first if, as the Bible states we were created first.

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Most religions explain that away by saying that he has to have a man-made name, because no-one knows what his real name is. Some even make pronouncing his name a blasphemy, 'though I imagine this could only be by accident, without knowing it first.

As for your dino thing, you're mixing evolution and creationism (which can't be done). You're either with them or against them. Ask born-again Bush.

You're moving in a mysterious way, Dave.

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No - I am not. -Oh Yes you are - No - We created the difference between 'logic and belief' I have always thought it so arrogant of mankind to believe that 80 odd years on Earth entitles you to everlasting life. Of course we live on - we have a ghost and no one will convince me otherwise. None of us know the answer -but it's nice to think that it has not all been for nothing.

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i also ask that question alot of time, where is god, who is he, is there such thing as god, does he really exist..
but then i still turn back to my belief that there is god and that he created me. if this question still settles in my mind, i just consider the evidence for God in His creation.Where is God? We see Him in what He has created

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I read somewhere that if the moon had positioned itself anywhere other than where it is - life on earth would never have begun.

Coincidence?


Or bloody clever planning?

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I was thinking that it might help to read the Bible before making an adamant statement about what it says. Nowhere in Scripture does it say that we were created first. We were created last.

I appreciate open and honest discussion in religious threads and I think many of the atheists here have been open and honest about their thoughts. But your stated positions are incorrect and misinformed and tend to suggest an agenda of willful ignorance more than a thought-provoking position. No offense intended.

While you may think you are more enlightened than people in the United States, the broad misrepresentation of what the Bible actually says shows that you aren't enlightened you are merely misinformed or so opposed to Scripture that you would rather misquote it than state it accurately.

Mankind invented the name God? I guess knowing that as a fact kinda makes you God, doesn't it?

I really respect atheists because it takes a greater amount of faith to state their is no God than it does to believe He exists.

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Thanks for the reply - Genesis Chapter One verse 26 'And God said 'Let us make man in our image'.

Now, who needs to study? That's on the very first page of the Bible -

Simple questions

How old is the planet Earth?


How old is mankind?

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Wow, you got to the first page of the Bible? I'm impressed. Now read the first 3 chapters...and get the order of creation down. Next point..."Let us make man in Our image..." has nothing to do with the order of Creation. I write programs all the time...sometimes I say, "Let us make a program in the image of..." and then proceed to write other programs first. You are being intellectually dishonest.

Simple questions:

How old is the planet earth?

Simple answer: I don't know. The Bible doesn't say. I suspect that it is billions of years old.

How old is mankind?

Simple answer: I don't know. The Bible doesn't say. I suspect mankind has been around for much longer than many people think.

You've already proven that you don't read Scripture you merely mouth preconceived notions.

You need to study.

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OK, let's do this - The Earth is billions of years old - The Bible was written by man - of that you cannot possibly dispute the fact. We interpret - man in God's image is a wee bit niave to say the least. Were you aware that 160 Chapters of the Bible were never printed? - These were found within the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Lets look at a few facts. One the Virgin Birth is a lovely story - but in fact Jesus had an older brother named James. He, according to the unpublished Bible was actually the person who preached the Bible to the masses. Yet history delivers a almost 'unknown quantity' in recalling his story. Personally I think Jesus existed, I think that he was well ahead of his time. In historic terms we seem to know more about Rome than we do of the beliefs at that time, maybe that is because so many documents relating to that period were 'destroyed' on purpose.

The Bible is a lovely book - but that is what it is 'A Book' - The word God was formatted by mankind, it is full of inaccuracies. Belief in itself is a wonderful thing. But there is a vast difference between studying history and indoctrination. It is a sad reflection on religion as a 'factor' that people are often 'taught' to the exclusion of 'thinking'.

You need to step outside of a given perimetre of what you have been 'taught' and look at all aspects of all religions. Study not just the word of the Bible but of the Koran and all other religions. After I wrote my first published Novel on English History I had to do just that. Read and draw logical conclusions.

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Whilst waiting for a response - let's look at this - your words

Wow, you got to the first page of the Bible? I'm impressed. Now read the first 3 chapters...and get the order of creation down.


If you are a Christian with Christian beliefs then you need to learn to 'think' before you press 'submit' Look at it - it is sarcastic, hostile and totally unneccessary. Let me take the time to give you a small lesson in life.

Write something down - think about it, leave it in the pending tray, even sleep on it. Then ask yourself the simple question 'Does this portray me as a thinking considerate adult'? If 'No' press delete.

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