Now if you can find a way to stick around in the quantum void instead of returning to matter during oscillation you'd
have all the time you wanted there to figure out how to get where you want to go. Um....you should do some real
hefty due diligence into the magnetic fields of where you want to go first though.

Um...OMG -- I that what happened to YOU David?

__________________
SAL
Get A Life. Self-Reliance.

Sure, and the inertial and momentum vectors are completely in line with that. You need a chaotic system to control anothet chaotice system, and then he refers to the oldest and most abstruse example of 'chaos'.
Answer, the butterfly will never affect the weather, his miniscule addition to supposedy choatic and random atmospheric conditions will be drowned out by hundreds of millions of other random and trubulent (read: chaotic) events. It is like saying that it you stir a glass of water, it will superheat a local molecule and create boiling water and bubbles of steam.
You do not understand chaos, my friend, or common sense, me thinks.[/quote]How would a computer controll the footbal? ESP? This is called the false choices fallacy, kgun, and I will get serious with you if you want. Classical mechanics expresses momentum and gravity, in this case, but it is not even a relevant consideration, thus the false choices failure of logic. Or is it quantum Electro Dynamics, kgun? HUH? Rolleyes at insipid complete misunderstandings.
Also, a red herring and straw man. Is that the best you can do to 'support' your supposed knowledge? You do not even come remotely close to making a coherent argument, instaed you throw whimsical and irrelevant chaff into the discussion, hoping to impress us with bullshite.

That's very bad, kgun. X(n + 1) - 1 = y(n) - a (X(n))^2

You are telling me this very simple function is chaotic? LMFAOUTLOUDSOLOUD!!!!!

It is a curve, you ninny.
Where do you come up with this shite? You do not know what you are talking about. What the f*** do classical(quadratic - linear) and QM have the slightest bit it common?
I have dispensed with hundreds of new age freaks that always want to use the tem "QM" to make what they are saying look somehow 'knowledgable'. You're form of BS is well understood, kgun, I will refer you to a philisophy site, Butterlies and Wheels (LOL, how appropriate!).
Choatic systems do live on a strange attractor, they are defined by them, every system has them. It is like saying a man lives on one part of his body.
"We consider a sequence of topological torus bifurcations (TTBs) in a nonlinear, quasiperiodic Mathieu equation. The sequence of TTBs and an ensuing transition to chaos are observed by computing the principal Lyapunov exponent over a range of the bifurcation parameter"
Lyapunov exponent!! Transition TO chaos!!!
I merely point out your sorry equations that, like I said, are simple curve equations, as opposed to complex exponential series.
"Following the transition, solutions evolve on strange attractors that have the topology of fractal braids in Poincaré sections"
Give me a fractal equation. Here, I will give you one:
Z<-Z^2+C^2
-
How many axis does that give you?
Don't bullshit a bullshitter, kgun.

Hey, what molecular process leads to chaotic behaviour?

Hey, did you know that quantum fluids, like supercooled helium, do not act chaotically? What is a quantum state, kgun? Do you know how obtuse and regressed you sound to someone that understands the Cppenhagen interpretation?

Get a diverse education. I never graduated high school, don't forget this. You want to think you are smart and show off your brains, hahahaaaaaaaa!!! My IQ isn't even very high, and I am younger than you!
Sorry, kgun, I have a low tolerance for people that use sophystry instead of making sense.

If I am wrong about anything, I always stand to be corrected, and I am wrong a lot. You see, I am also a bullshiter

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What I am is what I am, are you what you are, or what.
Eddie Brickel

See tubby, re: ejaculation v ejaculated
ctabuk:"I barely remember the 60's -I was just a nipper on a Lambretta LI150 - a simple beer swilling youth - I seem to recall - Carnaby Street - those Bull Fighter Posters with your photo on"
I remember the sixties, it is as I moved into the seventies, my recall goes dim, luckily. I vaguely remember disco, then I started drinking heavily, until it was over. But I do remember a band called 'The Archies'. Guess I didn't drink heavily enough!
One small step for man, one giant leap for spermkind?

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What I am is what I am, are you what you are, or what.
Eddie Brickel

Looks as if you've made a very long career out of being a mod. Some things just don't seem to change, do they ? Frighten a lot of people in Brighton by buzzing around on your hair-dryer, did you ? I can imagine you, flashing all your chrome headlights, with your hair back-combed, your Ben Sherman and your parka. Strange times, huh ?

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www.thehappysmoker.net

Virual Dave, please transmit.

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Eddie Brickel

My bolding.

Yes, and you are not able to understand this simple example. You mix theory with reality as you see it. You do not comprehend what a singular point is. From that post on Wikipedia:

"a ball placed at the crest of a hill might roll into any of several valleys depending on slight differences in initial position"

There is nothing to stop the ball before it hits the bottom and find a more stable equilibrium.

To cite Einstein. If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts. Mikmik, if you have a better theory, then formulate that. I will not take the time to read it. I have more important things to do. I have more important things to do than commenting on the rest of what you write. But I shall make this one exception, so other members and surfers are able to see how wrong you are. You are not able to understand that a more general model can encompass another model so this model becomes a special case of the more general model.


My bolding.

What has this to do with chaos theory? The football lying in the saddle is maximal unstable like theball placed at the crest of a hill. Theoretically it can be controlled by a computer program, so it keeps its position in the saddle. You need a chaotic process to control another chaotic process. Control of mathematical chaos is one of the more advanced subjects in chaos theory. Period.

Again my bolding. You don't hit yourself with these words? Is it time to stop this discussion?

That was one of the two equations explaining the Henon map. If you want the map from a more reliable source than Wikipedia, try this from Wolfram It is the same map, though with different letters for the symbols, but you should be able to understand that. There is no difference in naming an unknown magnitude x, y, z or even mikmik. My bolding of the last sentence in the quote. Is there any point in continuing?

If you have problems with the twodimensional Henon map, start with the simpler logistic map. The solution of the logistic map for different parameter values, will also explain the difference between 1, 2, .... ,k solutions and a chaotic solution (window).

Again my bolding. Is there any point in continuing?

Yes, but can you then tell me why the henon map that lives on the henon attractor is not chaotic?

Before you copy and paste more fine words from the web, start by understanding the butterfly wing, a singular point, sensitive dependence on initial conditions (described in the Wiki article I pointed you to) and the very simple logistic map. That may be your transition from complete confusion to a weak understanding of the concept of mathematical chaos.

My bolding. Any point in continuing this discussion?

You degrade WPW my friend. Stop throwing out exotic words before you can add 2 + 2.

Stop throwing out exotic words before you can add 2 + 2.

My bolding. Please remove the words, also a.

You may continue fooling people in this thread. You have to refine and cultivate your language and study some elementary topics before I can use more time on your posts.

<cite>
I never graduated high school, don't forget this.
</cite>
And your proof was?

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Learn object oriented programming where it started

Hah! Depending on slight differences? Why don't you illustrate my mistakes. I know what a single point is, I also know what equilibrium is.
The ball is not in equilibrium if it rolls, is it???
Hmmm, I wonder. What am I up to?
If a theory doesn't fit, it is discarded. You want a theory? Funny you should ask.

What if I explained things in a way that we could all understand.

What do you think about that idea.

I am almost there, fuckhead. I am almost there. It has been years and years. The idea and understanding never has never changed, just the translation to words.
Good point, I am sure, whatever it is! You sure put me in my place with that one!

You already said that! You still here? You said you were leaving already, to witLets see...



No. Who gives a f***. What are trying to say in the first place, again?

Haha, of course I can. Everyone knows what a variable is.

WTF is 1,2,...k????? You mean N-1??? N??? 1,2,...k is undefined, you moron.
You still here?
Yup. Can you? Can you tell me the parameter tha obtains to produce the map? Hint, it is like a derivative.
Wrong!!!! A point has no dimensions, only position, defined by the parameters x,y, and z. You saying a butterfly wing has no dimensions?
You haven't demonstrated my 'weak understanding', let alone complete confusion. Why don't you ever answer me directly?

Why??

You never do. You never answer my simple (to a mathmatician) questions. Why is that, kgun?????
Who cares what I do, just answer my points. You never do that.
2 + 2 is my favourite number. Do you know why?

Stop throwing out exotic sounding bullshit. I can call your shit, you never refute.

I will start to get logical if you don't behave, then we will all go to sleep!

Hah, which topics again?


Are you going to leave yet?
I got only 98 credits, you want to see my fucking transcripts? Why is the heck would you care about this? I had a complete neuro psych eval done in Nov '06. You want to see that?
You want to take an online IQ test?

Yeah, let's do it, mofo. I will show you common sense trumps bullshit every time.

Not only did I not graduate high school, I have brain damage. It is in my ct scan.
I will pick you apart in my next post, okay?

__________________
What I am is what I am, are you what you are, or what.
Eddie Brickel

ME:
Fine. Let's see. I am going to show you up.
Originally Posted by mikmik
That's very bad, kgun. X(n + 1) - 1 = y(n) - a (X(n))^2
You are telling me this very simple function is chaotic? LMFAOUTLOUDSOLOUD!!!!!
It is a curve, you ninny.


kgun:
That was one of the two equations explaining the Henon map. If you want the map from a more reliable source than Wikipedia, try this from Wolfram It is the same map, though with different letters for the symbols, but you should be able to understand that. There is no difference in naming an unknown magnitude x, y, z or even mikmik. My bolding of the last sentence in the quote. Is there any point in continuing?

- - -
First off, i didn't go anywhere, i just simplified your obtuse equation. I have no idea what it represents. I do not have to look up these things, it is very basic algebra.

Obviously I was right, wasn't I? You did not give me a quadratic equation. Let us see the equations, and they are nothing like what you gave me, in fact they resovle to sumnations.
Let's go to Wolfram. "The Hénon map is the two-dimensional quadratic map given by the coupled equations..."
Not only do you give me a BS equation, ah, who cares.

You know what? I have to go into word to show this shite.
Xa+1=a2x2a +a1xa + a0
!!! Irt didn't work! Quadratic Map -- from Wolfram MathWorld
That is not like X(n + 1) - 1 = y(n) - a (X(n))^2

They are not the same thing, kgun, and I called you on it.
You are the one getting shit off the internet, aren't you? And you try to accuse me?!
Theory on what?

A theory explains facts. No scientist in touch with reality would ever say something so insipid as "change the facts" to fit the theory. Least of all AE. It is about explaining facts, not making theories!!!!!
If you are so self absorbed that you think your theories must be accomadated by manipulating data, you are a fraud, my man.
Deeply and disgustingly.
We look for truth, not make it up and then try to convince others we are right.

You are a very sick puppy, kgun, you got that? I worship truth and the endeavor to understanding reality because it is honest and I am made from it.

What you do is like a charlatan creating a cult and claiming to speak for god.

You want a theory? I will give you a doozy. Actually, I can only give you a hypothesis.

First, answer my questions, okay?
Try to baffle me with math, yet you evade my simple questions.
You should know that my equation is for a mandelbrot set symetrical about both the x and y axis.

I can add 2 + 2. That is what I do. I look for the simple reality that we are made of. You try to agrandize yourself by making reality look complicated, and you lie to do it.

That is my theory.

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Eddie Brickel

You want to know something, kgun? Why didn't you say your initial equation was displaying incorrectly. That is all you had to do, and I would have understood. But you chose to let me live on a deception.

Funny, that. I, a simple punk, knew your equations were not right somehow.

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What I am is what I am, are you what you are, or what.
Eddie Brickel

But very complex in your simplicity - you don't really NEED to have that multi-coloured Apache hairdo.

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Why can't I be different and original - like everybody else ?
www.thehappysmoker.net