In Praise of Grand Theft Folly; I Swear It’s All True

jmiller · #1 (**permalink**) 07-13-2005, 05:28 PM

Oh, come on. Who wouldn’t believe a company that named itself “Rockstar” and produced one of the most graphically violent thugged out gangster video games ever and aimed it at teenagers? Would they lie to you?

I don’t believe for a second that the fear of losing their well-deserved “M” rating on Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas and possibly losing all that money could cause them to lie about the situation, so stop saying that!

I don’t care if you heard that players could choose a dildo as a weapon in the game. Doesn’t mean it’s true, doesn’t have anything to do with this situation, and doesn’t mean their just trying to save their butts.

See, they just said that the “Hot Coffee” mod, which unlocks some secret sexually explicit mingames and animated porno sequences, was done by hackers modifying the source code.

This Rockstar statement says it was "the work of a determined group of hackers who have gone to significant trouble to alter scenes in the official version of the game."

So, there. That settles it. After the Entertainment Software Ratings Board (ESRB) finishes up their investigation they’ll show everybody that the interactive sex and the nude girls accessed by the mod were introduced by the mod itself and by really good hackers, and was not preexisting code hidden inside by bored Rockstar employees.

Look. There’s how they did it.

"Hackers created the 'Hot Coffee' modification by disassembling and then combining, recompiling and altering the game's source code." That’s what Rockstar said.

It makes perfect sense doesn’t it? Besides, I’ve seen the screen shots and ol’ dude in the video is fully clothed. But it doesn’t matter, because they didn’t do it, right?

Shut up with the “they’re gonna lose all kinds of money if they get an Adult’s Only (AO) rating” stuff.

It’ll all work out fine, because the guys at Rockstar say it’s all some crazy hacker’s fault, and I believe them.

They've done nothing questionable with their best-selling video game so far, right?

**Ne0** · #2 (**permalink**) 07-13-2005, 09:54 PM

Do I sense a hint of sarcasm? Really good hackers can do all kinds of fun stuff LOL!
NeO1

KeithO · #3 (**permalink**) 07-14-2005, 09:21 AM

I was under the impression that certain games carry a warning against reverse engineering and if GTA:SA is one of them, shouldn't the modder be the one in trouble here? Besides, regardless of weather it was in there originally or not, the game is only supposed to be sold to those 18 and up anyways. If a 13 year old gets his hands on it, blame the poor parenting.

jmiller · #4 (**permalink**) 07-14-2005, 01:38 PM

You know, I can't know everything that's going on here...I can't even pretend to...however, when in doubt, I tend to err on the side of the principle of Occam's Razor which states "the simplest solution is usually the correct one." In this case, and please correct me if I'm in error, I think the simplest answer is that the code was there all along, probably was intended to be part of the game until execs overruled it and the programmers just buried it--either as a joke, or because it was easier than deleting it...in fact, I wouldn't be too surprised if one of those programmers tipped off some hackers to the existence and challenged them to find it...but that last part strays from the simple solution and moves to pure speculation.

**Ne0** · #5 (**permalink**) 07-14-2005, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmiller

I think the simplest answer is that the code was there all along, probably was intended to be part of the game until execs overruled it and the programmers just buried it--either as a joke, or because it was easier than deleting it...in fact, I wouldn't be too surprised if one of those programmers tipped off some hackers to the existence and challenged them to find it...but that last part strays from the simple solution and moves to pure speculation.

I have a good friend that works @ Monolith (Matrix online, F.E.A.R., and Tron2) and I showed him your post...I think you may have hit the nail on the head Jmiller ;)
just my $0.02
NeO1

#6 (**permalink**) 07-14-2005, 03:53 PM

Senator Clinton is demanding the Federal Trade Commission look into charges the racy computer game, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas contains sexually graphic footage and activities in the game .

In what's become an international incident, Rockstar Game's always controversial "Grand Theft Auto" line of games continues to remain at the forefront for computer gaming's problem children. The game's standard game play includes some great features like carjacking, murder, drug use, gangland killing, corrupt cops and many other aspects of a romanticized gangsta life. <
Now, thanks to the mods of a few good hackers, we can watch hot sex action too. Well… I wouldn't say hot necessarily. The sex is computer animated and it's sort of blocky and the guy is completely clothed the entire time. There's very little detail for the areas people might find offensive although the acts are certainly simulated. I've seen rougher stuff on skinamax late at night.

Anyway, the ESRB continues to investigate the rating of M for mature of the GTA:SA game. Senator Clinton thinks the system might be failing though. One of the things she's requesting is an investigation into whether retailers are doing their job in this problem too. She said statistics from the National Institute on Media and the Family that said 50% of boys between the ages of 7 and 14 were able to buy M rated video games.

"No wonder these games are falling into the hands of our children and no wonder so many parents feel everyday like they are fighting this battle with their hands tied behind their backs," said Senator Clinton. "We need to do better. We need to do everything we can to make sure that parents have a line of defense against violent and graphic video games and other content that go against the values they are trying to instill in their children."

One must keep in mind too that the mods are only available for PC version. Console mods are trickier as they generally require additional hardware. Also, in many cases, game companies encourage groups to mod games. Mods can certainly change the uh… feel of a game. Mods change the look, playability and many other features of games. In some cases, the mods can keep games active and floating for years after their initial run is over.

Senator Clinton plans to introduce legislation calling for stricter controls on these games. The New York Senator went on to quote the study saying 87% of boys play M-rated games and nearly 25% of all retailers don't even understand the ratings system they are supposed to enforce. One would have to question parts of this study though. The rating of a game is printed on the box and is pretty clearly marked and working under the assumption that employees were able to fill out a job application, then this ratings system should be able to be enforced.

"The disturbing material in Grand Theft Auto and other games like it is stealing the innocence of our children and it's making the difficult job of being a parent even harder," said Senator Clinton. "I am announcing these measures today because I believe that the ability of our children to access pornographic and outrageously violent material on video games rated for adults is spiraling out of control."

There are many problems with attempting to legislate this type material and getting the government involved. Right now, it's impossible to legislate the type of things they are asking for. If I'm a 13-year old, chances are I know someone who's got the game. I've managed to mow a couple of lawns and your older cousin, who's 18, will go get the game for you. Maybe I go over to a friends house who's parents bought the game for him and you go over there and either burn a copy (an illegal activity of course) or you just borrow the game since he's beaten it already.

That's not counting the retailers who don't card you when you get the game or when you rent the game at your favorite movie and game rental location. Unfortunately, this is a lot of lip service because, like all the other forms of modern media, it's darned near impossible to completely keep this out of the hands of people who want the game.

Finally, the problem with violence comes into play. It's perfectly acceptable in movies or games or whatever to murder people by the dozens, to have grand armies marching off to slaughter people out of hand. Movies that show lots of killing and violence get PG13 ratings and you see a woman's nude body and it goes straight to R. So a gratuitous sex scene has been added and it goes to AO?

SCOTUS has always upheld society's need to protect children from various elements. That's' why 13-year old boys generally can't buy copies of Hustler. But with the advent of the Internet and it's international implications, unless we cut off contact from the rest of the world, then society will have an extraordinarily difficult time regulating this type of material because even if we can't get the game at Wal-Mart, then they could certainly download it from somewhere but that's another story.

**Ne0** · #7 (**permalink**) 07-17-2005, 08:18 PM

Since I mentioned that I passed your post on to my buddy that builds games, I thought I would post his reply back here...

Quote:

Rockstar is going to bring down some legislation on our industry for leaving those scenes on the disk. Basically, they were toying around with allowing the player to have sex with his in-game girlfriend. Super lame, but not everyone has good taste. Now, when you're developing a game you create tons of content but not all of it stays in the game. Some things are cut, just like a film. However, if the developers are not vigilant about removing the content from their development asset manager it can end up on the disk, just not hooked up to anything. This is how some people found deleted scenes and extra dialog, including a whole subplot, on the Knights of the Old Republic 2. With rockstar, they only disabled the explicit version of Hot Coffee from the actual game mission, but left it on the disk. So all people had to do to figure out how to access it was use a cheat to enable all missions involving the girlfriend. It could have been some developers goofing off, it could have been an actual test to see if something like that was worth putting in the game. Whatever the reason it is in there, doesn't matter. It's going to enable a government regulatory committee to have oversight over our content.

Now, as a parent I don't really mind. I think our game ratings system is a joke. For example, a game where you can shoot and kill a million people is considered "Teen" as long as you don't have red blood. If the blood is red, then it's rated "Mature". But you're still DOING the same thing in both games. UGH. Thanks for getting me started dave, i could actually go on for a long time about this. But it's horrifically boring to anyone but me. Bottom line is, if the gov't tries to control content and censor games, i'm against it. If they want to revisit the ratings system and get some clearer definitions i'm for it. I still think it's ridiculous that our country rates sex as worse than violence.

He makes some good points... I think the color of the blood to the rating is STUPID
NeO1

**jawn_tech** · #8 (**permalink**) 07-18-2005, 12:11 AM

Personally, I'd like to see a game that has something to do with Senator Clinton as a character in it... well, I'll leave it there.

Wouldn't surprise me if something like that emerges someday.

The geeks and even execs at Rockstar could very well be sitting back throughout all of this saying to themselves, "Yessssss", in Napoleon Dynamite fashion.

There's no such thing as bad publicity, and this is no exception.

Here's another idea for a game. Have a character that frees hostage parents and their kids by the evil infiltrating group that calls themselves the 'village', assembled by Hillary the Terror.

webhost1 · #9 (**permalink**) 07-18-2005, 01:40 AM

From the things I have read all code has something in it. A personal id you can call it. Most code is usually never cleaned up. Makes one wonder how fast one can play a game if all the code was cleaned up.

jmiller · #10 (**permalink**) 07-18-2005, 08:53 AM

thanks for the insight NeO, very interesting stuff.

jmiller · #11 (**permalink**) 07-21-2005, 03:19 PM

Major retailers Wal-Mart and Target announced they are pulling copies of the controversial and best-selling video game Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas after the industry’s own watch dog panel officially changed the rating to “Adults Only (AO).”

Neither store chains carry AO rated games, which have an age requirement of 18 or older, and haven’t decided whether to carry an updated version consistent with the former Mature (M , 17+) rating once it is released.

For those retail outlets who will continue to carry the game, new rating stickers will be distributed over the coming weeks for use until a newer version can be released.

Take Two Interactive, the company that produces GTA: San Andreas, has changed its earning forecast for the fiscal year, lowering projections by $50 million.

The ratings change followed after an investigation by the video game industry’s self-regulating Electronic Software Ratings Board (ESRB). Hullabaloo surrounding the game surfaced when a teenage Dutch hacker released a code, dubbed “Hot Coffee,” that unlocked a highly explicit sexual mini-game hidden inside the game.

Rockstar Games, a subsidiary of Take Two Interactive that designed GTA: San Andreas, initially denied that the modification was part of the original game placed by its own software developers.

"Hackers created the 'Hot Coffee' modification by disassembling and then combining, recompiling and altering the game's source code," read the statement by Rockstar officials.

Rockstar and Take Two have since recanted that statement after it was determined that the modification was present in the original after all.

A Wal-Mart spokesperson said the game will be pulled from the shelves nationwide and expects to have all PC versions, Sony PlayStation, and Xbox versions pulled by the end of the day on Thursday. The modification was initially only thought to affect the PC version of the game but news surfaced recently that the PlayStation version could also be altered to reveal the pornographic animated content.

Target and Wal-Mart probably won’t be the only retailers to yank the video game. Others, represented by the trade group, Interactive Electronic Merchants Association (IEMA), may also take proactive measures.

"Our members intend to immediately cease all sales of the game until existing inventory can either be re-stickered with an AO (Adults Only) rating, or exchanged for new versions of the game that has the hidden content removed and the original M (Mature 17+) rating intact. Though not a policy, IEMA members generally do not carry AO-rated games any differently than we do not carry X-rated videos or DVDs, thus it is likely that our members will be removing all copies of the current version and re-stocking with the updated version," said IEMA in a statement on Wednesday.

Analysts say Take Two’s projected loss of $50 million was a worst-case scenario prediction to warn investors, but losses probably won’t be that extreme.

The ESRB’s aggressive movement since the news of the “Hot Coffee” modification surfaced may be an attempt to head off a federal investigation.
Parents groups and politicians, notably, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, have called for a federal investigation and a recall of the game.

"The disturbing material in 'Grand Theft Auto' and other games like it is stealing the innocence of our children, and it's making the difficult job of being a parent even harder," opined the former first lady.

Take Two also announced plans to offer a downloadable patch for the PC version that will block the modification, but gave no indication about how they plan to compensate owners of PlayStation and Xbox versions of the game.

Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, one of the best selling video games in history, has earned Take Two over $280 billion since its 2004 release. Nearly six million copies have been sold.

KeithO · #12 (**permalink**) 07-21-2005, 03:29 PM

because we all know that 18 year olds are so much more mature than those pimple-faced 17 year olds.

**Ne0** · #13 (**permalink**) 07-21-2005, 03:57 PM

Didn't I say that this would make sales go through the roof? And they are projecting a 50mil loss LOL! The time to buy stock was last week! Here's where the supply and demand comes into play. Walmart yanking those copies off of the shelf just made them millions! I don't know if any of you remember when Sony came out with that camcorder w/ the nightvision (it's said that if you tape with the nightvision on, in daylight it had X-ray vision capabilities) Sony scrambled to recall all of the naughty cams... Ebay on the other hand was selling the $300.00-400$ cams for Thousands of dollars! Take a look at this The hack is being sold on ebay! And I guarantee in a few weeks the copies that have not been patched will be worth much more, just like the cameras! If I was the CEO of Take Two... I would personally send Billary a thank you card for the increased sales and revenue ;)

NeO1

greeneagle · #14 (**permalink**) 07-21-2005, 04:04 PM

Talking about FREE PRESS!

Janet taught them well.

I'd bet there isn't one left on the shelf.

Increased sales will outpace any penalties at least 10-1.

It's really not Marketing Magic here! But it is simple math!

With what little is there, the age of the targeted audience, the soft pron nature..... it is much lighter than any 13yr old can go pick up off the Net for free any given day!

This story is simply based in the unknowing mediocrity of the masses and doesn't deserve this PRESS at all!

But there is good marketing value in the nature of mediocrity and appeal to the masses that reside therein...

That we see every day!

Ken