What is so good about Firefox?

[supernatural_247]

I just want to know what's so good about Firefox as I really don't know that much about Firefox. All I know alot of folks are switching over to Firefox from Explorer. Is this because Firefox is a truly better browser or is it just because people hate Microsoft??

[a12c4magic]

Firefox has popup blocking as well as tab browsing
It’s quicker than IE at rendering pages
It has less security holes than IE
It’s multi platform – works with many different operating systems
It has excellent extensions that can be freely downloaded

[bodgekaloopie]

IMHO - Both!

[supernatural_247]

Originally Posted by a12c4magic

It has less security holes than IE

I've heard contrary... that because Firefox is an independent project, contributed to by many different developers, it has more bugs and security holes. anyone else heard likewise?

[a12c4magic]

Originally Posted by supernatural_247

I've heard contrary... that because Firefox is an independent project, contributed to by many different developers, it has more bugs and security holes. anyone else heard likewise?

On May 12, 2005 Mozilla released an update to its popular bowser, Firefox. This update addresses the vulnerabilites with Javascript that have been found in the past couple of weeks.

The software can be installed via the automatic updater or downloaded from http://www.firefox.com

[supernatural_247]

Originally Posted by a12c4magic

On May 12, 2005 Mozilla released an update to its popular bowser, Firefox. This update addresses the vulnerabilites with Javascript that have been found in the past couple of weeks.
The software can be installed via the automatic updater or downloaded from http://www.firefox.com

How quick are they to address new vulnerabilities? I know Microsoft gets on it as they have a whole department to deal with security flaws.

[a12c4magic]

Originally Posted by supernatural_247

How quick are they to address new vulnerabilities? I know Microsoft gets on it as they have a whole department to deal with security flaws.

If Microsoft have a whole department to correct the flaws, how come the whole company releases software with flaws to begin with?

Microsoft is a huge corporation with massive resources and yet trojans and worms can still get in easily via IE.

Firefox instead of being a huge corporation has instead a network of developers that respond very quickly to any problems with the browser. As they are a non-profit making organisation they have no hidden interest in stopping any flaws from being made public, unlike Microsoft that do not acknowledge flaws. Microsoft have even run down security companies making flaws public as irresponsible and have tried to insist that the security companies let them know in advance. Why does Microsoft need to do this if they are not trying to hide the issues altogether.

The open source community not only updates their software regularly they are even open about who found the exploit and how it was fixed in the updated software.

Are Microsoft as fast and as open with their information?

[supernatural_247]

Originally Posted by a12c4magic

Are Microsoft as fast and as open with their information?

Good point! However, since Firefox is an open community with a network of developers contributing to it, wouldn't that make it more vulnerable to attacks, given that the source code is widely available? It really doesn't matter, I guess... I'm being paranoid when the truth is, anyone who wants to can hack into anything...

anyways, I downloaded Firefox about 20 mins ago and have been playing with it... I do like the fact that it is way more flexible than Explorer. However, that can pose some problems for designers... I've got some work to do on mine so that Firefox users won't get pissed when things don't load and they don't know why because they installed some extension that they forgot about and the settings conflict with my website... (such as the NoScrip javascript plugin).

Also, does anyone know how to get rid of that annoying "bleep/click" that sounds whenever a new page loads?

Cheers,
Tim

[a12c4magic]

[quote="supernatural_247"]

Originally Posted by a12c4magic

Are Microsoft as fast and as open with their information?

Good point! However, since Firefox is an open community with a network of developers contributing to it, wouldn't that make it more vulnerable to attacks, given that the source code is widely available? It really doesn't matter, I guess... I'm being paranoid when the truth is, anyone who wants to can hack into anything...

Open source programmers would no doubt like to write bug and security flaw free software, however, If an issue arises then the developers want to rectify that issue as soon as possible. Possibly out of pride or just the desire to improve their coding. They aren't making any money from the software except from donations. Would their customers donate if the product is no good? Also producing a good product may lead to them gaining better paid employment elsewhere, but not if their current product is no good.

The fact that the source is open will allow others to modify it or suggest improvements. Microsoft code is 'closed shop' unless you wish to illegally decompile their programs. They have a vested interest to keep security issues from the public to protect their financial well-being.

Also, does anyone know how to get rid of that annoying "bleep/click" that sounds whenever a new page loads?

Cheers,
Tim

We have never had any annoying clicks or sounds here on Firefox on Windows or Linux, both OS's with speakers permanently on. As we don't have that issue here we could only guess that it may be hidden in the preferences somewhere, or it has added a sound into the sounds section within your Windows Control Panel.

You may like to look at some of the extensions such as forecastfox or the extension for warning you if you go to a spoofed ebay or other web address. There are many extensions available all for free and they operate across Firefox on all it's supported platforms.

[supernatural_247]

Originally Posted by a12c4magic

We have never had any annoying clicks or sounds here on Firefox on Windows or Linux, both OS's with speakers permanently on. As we don't have that issue here we could only guess that it may be hidden in the preferences somewhere, or it has added a sound into the sounds section within your Windows Control Panel.

Ok, aparently, the NoScript extension causes the sound, so I unchecked the box in the options area to get rid of it - thank God!!!

[brian.mark]

FireFox has had 4 revisions since the release just over 6 months ago. Microsoft, on the other hand, has had one revision. Who is addressing flaws quicker? Open source.

Brian.

[supernatural_247]

Originally Posted by brian.mark

FireFox has had 4 revisions since the release just over 6 months ago. Microsoft, on the other hand, has had one revision. Who is addressing flaws quicker? Open source.

Yeah, but you would expect more revisions in a newer program. I would say that 4 revisions in 6 months is not as high as I would expect for a new program, particularly one that is massed used. I would like to see a revision every 1-2 weeks.

Now, that's not going to stop me from using Firefox as it's the best browser one can use. I do think that anti-Microsoft emotions can cloud objectionalism and lead to make an alternative solution seem much more solid than it actually is. Firefox is constantly been tested and found to have flaws (which is expected in a new program). However, people need to be alerted to this fact so that they are not mislead to think that Firefox is as solid as Explorer. So far, Firefox has crashed six times (since last Friday) when using it with the NoScrip and Adblock extensions. I have sent comments every time as to help the developers fix the bug. I do not remember the last time IE crashed...

I know I'm pushing a point that seems to contradict my affections for Firefox -- don't get me wrong, I love it! I think it's great that people are uniting against a monopoly that is trying to dictate how the web is used. This said, it is crucial that Firefox remains truthful and OPEN so that folks know what they're getting with the new baby (ie: poopy diapers, screaming... oh and a bunch of joy as well ;) ).

Cheers,
Tim

[ADAM Web Design]

Originally Posted by a12c4magic

Microsoft is a huge corporation with massive resources and yet trojans and worms can still get in easily via IE.

That's not a very fair statement for a few reasons:

1. With the large anti-Microsoft sentiment out there (justified or otherwise), there are subsequently a large number of people who would love to bring it down. As a result, no matter how many people Microsoft puts into development, someone somewhere is going to find something.
   
   Obviously, it would be preferential to have all potential security holes/issues resolved before product release, but given the gigantic market Microsoft has to release to and the different ways in which people think, act and do things, that's in no way realistic.
   
   This argument is akin to saying "there's a lot more crime in the United States than there is in Ontario." Of course there is, because it's a much larger demographic. And without going deeply into politics, there are a lot more people who hate the US than Ontario.
   
   You have to expect problems, but as long as they're fixed and there's a department on it, that's all I care about.
2. IE is not Microsoft's only product, but it is one of its few freely available products. Pretend you're Bill Gates standing in front of two customers. One of them has a copy of Office, and one a copy of IE. Both are bitching that they want the product fixed right away because they found some bug or hole in it. Who would you deal with first? I'll guarantee you 99 out of 100 of you would deal with the person with the Office copy in his/her hot little hand.
   
   And what will happen with FireFox if and when it grows to seriously compete with IE (which it hasn't done yet...I'm sorry, but less than 10% market share doesn't even make Microsoft blink in response)? Will those same developers who are contributing to the project be around? Or will there be more? Or will those developers who gave of their time and money find paying clients/jobs to deal with? The resource simply won't be there, unless FF branches out into other things such as office suites, productivity software, games, consoles, etc. and then the same people who are on the FF bandwagon will turn around and be bitching at FF for selling out.

Originally Posted by a12c4magic

Firefox instead of being a huge corporation has instead a network of developers that respond very quickly to any problems with the browser. As they are a non-profit making organisation they have no hidden interest in stopping any flaws from being made public, unlike Microsoft that do not acknowledge flaws. Microsoft have even run down security companies making flaws public as irresponsible and have tried to insist that the security companies let them know in advance. Why does Microsoft need to do this if they are not trying to hide the issues altogether.

The open source community not only updates their software regularly they are even open about who found the exploit and how it was fixed in the updated software.

Are Microsoft as fast and as open with their information?

There's a perfectly logical reason why they're not, and it relates to the security holes you're talking about; it opens up a potential future hole. "Here's the problem, and here's how we solved it. We'll provide it to you, but please don't analyze it looking for any holes within the solution that could be exploited as well." Give black hat hackers the chance to do something like that, and eventually they'll jump right through that hoop just because they can.

Microsoft wanting security companies to let them know in advance is logical as well. If the security company lets Microsoft know in advance, they can solve the problem and provide the patch before a leak goes public and people try to exploit it. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure in this case. They're not trying to "hide" the issue...they're trying to solve it before it becomes a catastrophe.

Again, to put a parallel on it, one of us (we'll call him Bob) has designed a website with a database backend. At some point, there's an SQL statement to access the backend. Bob inadvertently ignored the SQL injection when he generated the SQL statement and someone found it by accident.

Would Bob rather have that someone tell him or have that information reported publicly so that anyone and everyone could see it and possibly exploit it? I'm pretty sure Bob would much rather have someone tell him privately so that he can fix it with minimal damage.

I should note that I'm no Microsoft apologist. There are MS products out there (FrontPage, for example) that I think are completely terrible, and there are certain policies out there that I may not agree with. However, if I have to pick between whether or not I'd want a commercial team of developers supporting my product vs. a team of volunteers, and there's a business logic behind it...I'm picking the commercial team every time.

Note: I have used Firefox myself, and personally, the only thing I've found about it that I prefer over IE is the Javascript debugger.

I find it takes up 4x the RAM IE does, renders a lot of things improperly despite code being perfectly valid (IE does as well, but I've found it's about about a 3:1 ratio between FF and IE in terms of what I would consider "bugs"), and you can't get the real Google toolbar for FF...you just get that ugly G one.

I'm not a fan of tabbed browsing, as I find I often want to have two pages beside each other on the screen and tabbed browsing doesn't allow for that, and I just find FF ugly in general to look at. I don't know why...it just doesn't appeal to me visually the way IE does.

FireFox...bad! IE...good!

[supernatural_247]

Originally Posted by ADAMWebDesign

Microsoft wanting security companies to let them know in advance is logical as well. If the security company lets Microsoft know in advance, they can solve the problem and provide the patch before a leak goes public and people try to exploit it. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure in this case. They're not trying to "hide" the issue...they're trying to solve it before it becomes a catastrophe.

Good point! I am very thankful that you posted this information as I have only been looking at pro-Firefox posts until now...

Everything you said re-inforces my fears about security and the ability to update Firefox. And for that reason, I am going to make IE my default browser once more. I prefer a professional team over a bunch of developers as well, although I've been hearing so many raves about Firefox that I thought I'd give it a shot. I like the tab browsing and the cleaner interface, but the whole thought of it having a bunch of security holes kinda ruins the fun...

Adam makes a good case - MS keeps closed about new breaches so that the hacker community will not know that they have discovered the flaw and will be able to stop it before it becomes a huge ordeal whereas Firefox broadcasts security holes loud and clear to their volunteers (and to anyone else for that matter).

Thanks, Adam, for the info... To anyone else who is stuck on the fork between IE and Firefox, I'd say stick with IE until the Firefox craze emotions wear off and the reality of constant updates and fixes wears in. If Firefox is able to keep up the pace over the next 12 months and not die out, then I will most likely re-think my stance on it.

Cheers,
Tim

[dvduval]

For some reason when I run Firefox my computer seems to run slower. Has anyone else experienced this? Or just me?

[angelpure]

Originally Posted by ADAMWebDesign

FireFox...bad! IE...good!

Amen Brother, I don't like the way FF looks, for that matter, I have never liked Netscape either. I have been a big fan of MS since the old DOS 3.0 days, so I guess you can say I am a little jaded.

However, having said that, I am always willing to try new things that are not MS. Like WordPerfect and Lotus.

Both really buggy in the beginning and Office was a lot easier to use. Most of the Fourtune 500 went with Office way back when it was Office 97 and most have stayed with it. Why? I think it's becuase it's easy to use and learn and the big 500's IT guys are always looking a new products and evaluating them.

There are some that use other products, not all of the big 500 use Office and Corel is getting some new attention with the big US Government contract they landed, but by and large MS is here to stay.

BTW, did I say I liked MS?

[ADAM Web Design]

Originally Posted by dvduval

For some reason when I run Firefox my computer seems to run slower. Has anyone else experienced this? Or just me?

It's not just you. See my 4x the resource comment from earlier. You aren't insane. Isn't that lovely? :)

angelpure: the problem with tha US Government contract is that Office is still installed on all of the same machines, so all it's doing is serving to put more software on the machines than is absolutely necessary to run them. And anyone who's ever done any IT work of any kind knows exactly what that means...CONFLICTS! Wonderful conflicts.

There's nothing wrong with trying new software, since that's how development and technological advances take place. The problem is that very few of the products actually are revolutionary and cause significant productive improvement.

supernatural_247: no problem. I'd be willing to do the same, but I don't see that happening. I'm reminded of another not-for-profit "open" directory project that seems to be taking a reputation beating of late.

[supernatural_247]

Originally Posted by ADAMWebDesign

supernatural_247: no problem. I'd be willing to do the same, but I don't see that happening. I'm reminded of another not-for-profit "open" directory project that seems to be taking a reputation beating of late.

Which not-for-profit "open" directory project would that be? Would it be DMOz? can't really think of any other big open directory project...

[ADAM Web Design]

That would be the one, yes.